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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On December 15 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:05 -niL wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear If that happens they will be the strongest team both inside and outside of Korea. SKT maybe.
These ppl don't know about my Sora.
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On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:01 Firlefanz wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 15 2013 07:56 BakedButters wrote:On December 15 2013 07:54 TheDwf wrote:On December 15 2013 07:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
that was sad It's unfortunate, but I'm fairly sure Ryung would have won pre-patch. No pre-patch she was giving all Terrans a run for their money, including Bomber. She said she barely lost to any Koreans T when she was in Korea Yeh im not sure. Prepatch mass Mutalisks was also ridiclously strong, and thus I was very surprised that Blizzard didn't nerf Mutalisks along with the Mine-nerf, becasue the current "meta" we are seeing now was very much expected. I'm not up to date with the current ZvP, but nerfing mutas would influence ZvP and ZvZ way too much imo. As a terran player i would handle this situation with a slight buff to the Thor anti-air attack, because i really can't see a situation where this would break the any matchup (maybe Thors become a bit more useful against skyterran/toss). Very rare that Thors are built against Skytoss, just mainly add in a few for mech compositions. That probably wouldn't be a gamebreaking change as long as it was small.
True, i was just trying to think of every possible scenario where Thors could be built to deal with air units. 
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To those people that are talking about balance: are you fucking serious? If you're good at mutalisks then you are good at mutalisks what is this "abusing mutalisks" shit. Did people call out the game when July and Jaedong could win games just based on mutalisks alone, no.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2013 08:07 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:05 -niL wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear If that happens they will be the strongest team both inside and outside of Korea. SKT maybe. These ppl don't know about my Sora.
When CJ picks up aLive, Oz, and Losira then they are the best team.
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MMA definitely the MVP of the day, if he plays like that tomorrow I see no way Acer can lose this. Awesome to see him back in form.
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On December 15 2013 08:05 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:00 Zenbrez wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 15 2013 07:52 StutteR wrote:
Scarlett is INSANE At abusing mutas. Yes. Her whole TvZ resolves around getting 40 mutalisks and with the health regen and speed buff, there is no good way to handle them. Thor shots are not nearly as frightening, marines can't catch them. They buy infinite amount of time, they can challenge drops directly without even using lings and no amount of turrets stop them from harassing all over the map. Don't get me wrong, she is good but mutas play a huge role in her wins. Ryung cleared creep like a boss, denied her 3rd a couple of times but mutas saved the day. And? It's not easy, otherwise everybody would be that good at the matchup. Well that is typical over generalization. I never said it is easy in a sense everyone can do it, but it is easier to harass with mutas than defend against them, similar to how it is easier to drop against slower zerg army like ultralisk or broodlord based army than defend those drops. Yes you must be good player to use them constantly but what I am saying is that there is no good response to mutas since the WM nerf.
So basicly you are saying Zerg is favored in the ZvT matchup ? Again ?
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On December 15 2013 08:01 Firlefanz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 15 2013 07:56 BakedButters wrote:On December 15 2013 07:54 TheDwf wrote:On December 15 2013 07:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
that was sad It's unfortunate, but I'm fairly sure Ryung would have won pre-patch. No pre-patch she was giving all Terrans a run for their money, including Bomber. She said she barely lost to any Koreans T when she was in Korea Yeh im not sure. Prepatch mass Mutalisks was also ridiclously strong, and thus I was very surprised that Blizzard didn't nerf Mutalisks along with the Mine-nerf, becasue the current "meta" we are seeing now was very much expected. I'm not up to date with the current ZvP, but nerfing mutas would influence ZvP and ZvZ way too much imo. As a terran player i would handle this situation with a slight buff to the Thor anti-air attack, because i really can't see a situation where this would break the any matchup (maybe Thors become a bit more useful against skyterran/toss). Quite fascinating actually how Blizzard probably wanted to make MMMM+Tanks the new ZvT composition, but it actually resulted in implementing the unchanged Thors into the terran army, while completely neglecting tanks. The only thing tanks actually are good at in TvZ is fighting off Roach/Hydra, which was possible even before the patch. Instead of a more diverse TvZ, we now have even more strategic limited terrans, who pretty much have to go MMMM+Thors every game.
Sry I meant direct or indirect nerf. Like buffing Thors in some way would improve TvZ.
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your Country52797 Posts
LR'ing Ryung games are always fun, so in a way I'm glad we'll probably see more of his games ^_^
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On December 15 2013 08:07 RifleCow wrote:
To those people that are talking about balance: are you fucking serious? If you're good at mutalisks then you are good at mutalisks what is this "abusing mutalisks" shit. Did people call out the game when July and Jaedong could win games just based on mutalisks alone, no.
I dislike when terrans abuse marines to shoot all my stuff. I think it's unfair.
You can't nerf mutas because of ZvP, a Thor buff is something I would certainly support.
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On December 15 2013 08:10 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:01 Firlefanz wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 15 2013 07:56 BakedButters wrote:On December 15 2013 07:54 TheDwf wrote:On December 15 2013 07:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
that was sad It's unfortunate, but I'm fairly sure Ryung would have won pre-patch. No pre-patch she was giving all Terrans a run for their money, including Bomber. She said she barely lost to any Koreans T when she was in Korea Yeh im not sure. Prepatch mass Mutalisks was also ridiclously strong, and thus I was very surprised that Blizzard didn't nerf Mutalisks along with the Mine-nerf, becasue the current "meta" we are seeing now was very much expected. I'm not up to date with the current ZvP, but nerfing mutas would influence ZvP and ZvZ way too much imo. As a terran player i would handle this situation with a slight buff to the Thor anti-air attack, because i really can't see a situation where this would break the any matchup (maybe Thors become a bit more useful against skyterran/toss). Quite fascinating actually how Blizzard probably wanted to make MMMM+Tanks the new ZvT composition, but it actually resulted in implementing the unchanged Thors into the terran army, while completely neglecting tanks. The only thing tanks actually are good at in TvZ is fighting off Roach/Hydra, which was possible even before the patch. Instead of a more diverse TvZ, we now have even more strategic limited terrans, who pretty much have to go MMMM+Thors every game. Sry I meant direct or indirect nerf. Like buffing Thors in some way would improve TvZ.
Think you should let terrans figure it out before doing a buff. Especially when I only see Soulkey and Scarlett winning in the matchup consistently.
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On December 15 2013 08:06 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:04 Zenbrez wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear Does Acer have that much cash? Not sure if serious. Not sure what you mean.
They've proven that they can buy off the best player of the world( at that time at least) from the claws of kespa. So if they really want something, they have enough money for it.
I also really enjoyed that broadcast. Couldnt watch all of it but the end of acer vs axiom was just great entertainment. Im glad that taketv provides such a friendly environment for players that everyone dares to come out of his/her shell.
Too bad that difnt reflect too much in viewer numbers but i wish them all the best for the final day.
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Gogo team acer! Great games by MMA and birthday girl Scarlett today.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2013 08:11 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:07 RifleCow wrote:
To those people that are talking about balance: are you fucking serious? If you're good at mutalisks then you are good at mutalisks what is this "abusing mutalisks" shit. Did people call out the game when July and Jaedong could win games just based on mutalisks alone, no. I dislike when terrans abuse marines to shoot all my stuff. I think it's unfair. You can't nerf mutas because of ZvP, a Thor buff is something I would certainly support.
It would probably be an increase in splash damage or attack speed. But I think it would need to be pretty small.
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On December 15 2013 08:09 Lochland wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 15 2013 08:00 Zenbrez wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 15 2013 07:52 StutteR wrote:
Scarlett is INSANE At abusing mutas. Yes. Her whole TvZ resolves around getting 40 mutalisks and with the health regen and speed buff, there is no good way to handle them. Thor shots are not nearly as frightening, marines can't catch them. They buy infinite amount of time, they can challenge drops directly without even using lings and no amount of turrets stop them from harassing all over the map. Don't get me wrong, she is good but mutas play a huge role in her wins. Ryung cleared creep like a boss, denied her 3rd a couple of times but mutas saved the day. And? It's not easy, otherwise everybody would be that good at the matchup. Well that is typical over generalization. I never said it is easy in a sense everyone can do it, but it is easier to harass with mutas than defend against them, similar to how it is easier to drop against slower zerg army like ultralisk or broodlord based army than defend those drops. Yes you must be good player to use them constantly but what I am saying is that there is no good response to mutas since the WM nerf. So basicly you are saying Zerg is favored in the ZvT matchup ? Again ?
Matchup can be balanced overall but still have issues. Do I think zerg is necessarily favored in TvZ? No. Do I think mutas should be toned down a bit after WM nerf? Yes.
Remember, Blizzard nerfed mines when balance was almost 50:50, mines weren't nerfed because of balance issues but to promote tank usage.
The matchup basically remained the same (apart for making a few thors), it just got harder for terran in a matchup that was already almost perfectly balanced.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2013 08:12 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:06 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:04 Zenbrez wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear Does Acer have that much cash? Not sure if serious. Not sure what you mean. They've proven that they can buy off the best player of the world( at that time at least) from the claws of kespa. So if they really want something, they have enough money for it.
So you think because they got one expensive player they have enough money for more... Or maybe that one player has emptied their budget for other expensive players?
That's like saying a team got Peyton Manning on a huge contract so they probably have money for Tom Brady as well.
EDIT: I just realized you're from EU so my American football reference may be shit. I apologize.
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On December 15 2013 08:12 RifleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:10 Hider wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 Firlefanz wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 15 2013 07:56 BakedButters wrote:On December 15 2013 07:54 TheDwf wrote:On December 15 2013 07:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
that was sad It's unfortunate, but I'm fairly sure Ryung would have won pre-patch. No pre-patch she was giving all Terrans a run for their money, including Bomber. She said she barely lost to any Koreans T when she was in Korea Yeh im not sure. Prepatch mass Mutalisks was also ridiclously strong, and thus I was very surprised that Blizzard didn't nerf Mutalisks along with the Mine-nerf, becasue the current "meta" we are seeing now was very much expected. I'm not up to date with the current ZvP, but nerfing mutas would influence ZvP and ZvZ way too much imo. As a terran player i would handle this situation with a slight buff to the Thor anti-air attack, because i really can't see a situation where this would break the any matchup (maybe Thors become a bit more useful against skyterran/toss). Quite fascinating actually how Blizzard probably wanted to make MMMM+Tanks the new ZvT composition, but it actually resulted in implementing the unchanged Thors into the terran army, while completely neglecting tanks. The only thing tanks actually are good at in TvZ is fighting off Roach/Hydra, which was possible even before the patch. Instead of a more diverse TvZ, we now have even more strategic limited terrans, who pretty much have to go MMMM+Thors every game. Sry I meant direct or indirect nerf. Like buffing Thors in some way would improve TvZ. Think you should let terrans figure it out before doing a buff. Especially when I only see Soulkey and Scarlett winning in the matchup consistently.
Soulkey hasnt really won a lot of TvZ since the GSL vs. Innovation, hes barely above 50%. You need to look for other examples, as his ZvT is quite lacking
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On December 15 2013 08:13 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:09 Lochland wrote:On December 15 2013 08:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 15 2013 08:00 Zenbrez wrote:On December 15 2013 07:57 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 15 2013 07:52 StutteR wrote:
Scarlett is INSANE At abusing mutas. Yes. Her whole TvZ resolves around getting 40 mutalisks and with the health regen and speed buff, there is no good way to handle them. Thor shots are not nearly as frightening, marines can't catch them. They buy infinite amount of time, they can challenge drops directly without even using lings and no amount of turrets stop them from harassing all over the map. Don't get me wrong, she is good but mutas play a huge role in her wins. Ryung cleared creep like a boss, denied her 3rd a couple of times but mutas saved the day. And? It's not easy, otherwise everybody would be that good at the matchup. Well that is typical over generalization. I never said it is easy in a sense everyone can do it, but it is easier to harass with mutas than defend against them, similar to how it is easier to drop against slower zerg army like ultralisk or broodlord based army than defend those drops. Yes you must be good player to use them constantly but what I am saying is that there is no good response to mutas since the WM nerf. So basicly you are saying Zerg is favored in the ZvT matchup ? Again ? Matchup can be balanced overall but still have issues. Do I think zerg is necessarily favored in TvZ? No. Do I think mutas should be toned down a bit after WM nerf? Yes. Remember, Blizzard nerfed mines when balance was almost 50:50, mines weren't nerfed because of balance issues but to promote tank usage. The matchup basically remained the same (apart for making a few thors), it just got harder for terran in a matchup that was already almost perfectly balanced.
People should just stop to believe what blizzard say when they tweak the balance. You'd have to be clueless to think the tank buff/wm nerf would change composition in TvZ and I hope they just blatlantly lie. Or they really don't know what they're doing which would be kinda scary.
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On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear
Bagration gets it
it's comming, just you watch
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On December 15 2013 08:18 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:03 Bagration wrote:On December 15 2013 08:02 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 15 2013 08:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Acer just need a really strong protoss player now Hitman? Dear Bagration gets it it's comming, just you watch
If Acer does get Dear, Axiom-Acer needs to join Proleague. They could probably make the playoffs, and who knows, they might win another teamleague.
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EPT
