• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:30
CEST 02:30
KST 09:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)12Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week2Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
HIRE A CERTIFIED CRYPTO RECOVERY EXPERT /CHAINTRAC The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025) Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5 [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33071 users

[Code S] RO16 Group B 2012 GSL Season 5 - Page 77

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 75 76 77 78 79 98 Next
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 13 2012 11:58 GMT
#1521
On November 13 2012 20:52 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:45 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:44 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:40 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:40 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:36 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:35 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:34 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:33 Inzan1ty wrote:
gosh, MKP fanboys are still the most annoying, lol

will he become best player in the universe again, if he wins GSL?

well no way, he will beat Life, or even Leenock tho

zerosc2, go dig a hole somewhere until you get banned again

He has a point though. MKP fans are obnoxious ones, they have been on the Rain hype train lately but they can hop on and off whenever they feel like annoying the hell out the rest of us.

stephano and idra fanboys much worse, i don't really see how mkp fanboys are any more obnoxious than, say, alive fanboys (or rather, fanboy singular)

Really ? Did you remember when Stephano won ESWC 2011 beating MKP so easily, MKP looked like a foreigner ? Well after that months of "Stephano isn't a top player ensued" even when almost all top koreans were saying he was. It may be a little far-fetched but I allow myself to be biased sometimes.

so if you allow yourself to be biased, why are you so against players who like marineking being so?
i like you as a poster, you're quite reasonable, but i see no reason to call out MKP fanboys when you're just as much of a stephano one :D

That's because I'm a sore loser :D
Also it's funny arguing with people about fanboyism. The thread hasn't gone into full balance whine so people aren't shitting on each other and when do a "NO YOU!" versus "YO MOMMA" schoolyard contest about why Stephano's fanboys ae clearly more hip and swag than MKP's ones.

let's take this outside! i challenge you to a FASHION SHOW duel

OH ! It is ON !

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading] [image loading]


The combination of curly hair, hair band and oriental(-ish) scarf upon a dark blue (and awesomely designed) T-shirt is way better than this pseudo track suit with uninteresting colors. Plus what's up with the hair ? Does MKP stylist use a upside down rice bowl to cut his hair ?

So!
Fashion Show? Let's see stephano model! noone wants some french dude to model anything at all, I don't see Mill or EG having an Stephano shirts out! You want to see style? a trendsetter?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


in mere months, thousands of aspiring korean males AND females will be sporting the MKP look!

SM entertainment will have a kpop trainee group with MKP as consultant designer! just wait ;D

In other news primezzang has been updated and i've lost a lot of the fashion shows there unfortunately T_T i saved the creator ones for his fanclub, but since i don't run MKP's none were saved
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
November 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#1522
On November 13 2012 20:57 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:55 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:48 GreyKnight wrote:
Is there any hope left for this GSL having good games T_T


Yesterday had excellent games mixed in with fail, today has been similar. The all zerg group will either be glorious or a complete clusterfuck.




I've got money on it being a glorious clusterfuck. :D


late game every game, moving armies of spines and spores, Nydus action everywhere only for the final confrontation to be BL/ infestor vs BLi/nfestor and no one ever wins.



It just ends in 5 solid minutes of broodlings killing broodlings into the entire lr having an aneurysm.

This is actually an excellent question !

If you put 10 broodlords on each side, face to face, with no other units, nothing happens....

But if just 1 zergling from either side enters the fight... Then the neverending cluster of broodlings begin. So epic.
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
November 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#1523
Man, this fourth silver coin is taking forever to get.
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
November 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#1524
Artosis even tries to sound like tasteless during the intros... it's so cute ^_^
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
kafkaesque
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Germany2006 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 11:59:51
November 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#1525
On November 13 2012 20:56 Ahelvin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:55 Waxangel wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:54 Ahelvin wrote:
Guys.

Stephano is FRENCH.

One does not simply challenge a Frenchman's sense of fashion.


the other Europeans are laughing at you

It's because they don't know jack about fashion :p.

Especially the Germans.

Italians and Britons are among notable exception, though I'm not fond of Italian fashion.


Hey, hey, hey!

Our hands are tied, the highly fashionable theme of black, white and red is frowned upon here.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 13 2012 11:59 GMT
#1526
On November 13 2012 20:56 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:40 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:40 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:36 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:35 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:34 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:33 Inzan1ty wrote:
gosh, MKP fanboys are still the most annoying, lol

will he become best player in the universe again, if he wins GSL?

well no way, he will beat Life, or even Leenock tho

zerosc2, go dig a hole somewhere until you get banned again

He has a point though. MKP fans are obnoxious ones, they have been on the Rain hype train lately but they can hop on and off whenever they feel like annoying the hell out the rest of us.

stephano and idra fanboys much worse, i don't really see how mkp fanboys are any more obnoxious than, say, alive fanboys (or rather, fanboy singular)

Really ? Did you remember when Stephano won ESWC 2011 beating MKP so easily, MKP looked like a foreigner ? Well after that months of "Stephano isn't a top player ensued" even when almost all top koreans were saying he was. It may be a little far-fetched but I allow myself to be biased sometimes.

so if you allow yourself to be biased, why are you so against players who like marineking being so?
i like you as a poster, you're quite reasonable, but i see no reason to call out MKP fanboys when you're just as much of a stephano one :D

Wasn't Stephano hearing the commentators in this match too? Almost every Pomf et Thud cast there were sound proof problems, from maxlan with the DieStar Lalush issue to the last ESWC.

oh really? you're french, i guess you would know. i didn't watch those matches at all actually, they were during my 21st bday lol
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 13 2012 12:00 GMT
#1527
GOOO HACK
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
phoniv
Profile Joined November 2012
United States38 Posts
November 13 2012 12:00 GMT
#1528
hyunn!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33327 Posts
November 13 2012 12:00 GMT
#1529
I'm excited to see Hack try to play macro games and lose horribly
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
November 13 2012 12:00 GMT
#1530
On November 13 2012 20:59 Ahelvin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:57 imallinson wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:55 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:48 GreyKnight wrote:
Is there any hope left for this GSL having good games T_T


Yesterday had excellent games mixed in with fail, today has been similar. The all zerg group will either be glorious or a complete clusterfuck.




I've got money on it being a glorious clusterfuck. :D


late game every game, moving armies of spines and spores, Nydus action everywhere only for the final confrontation to be BL/ infestor vs BLi/nfestor and no one ever wins.



It just ends in 5 solid minutes of broodlings killing broodlings into the entire lr having an aneurysm.

This is actually an excellent question !

If you put 10 broodlords on each side, face to face, with no other units, nothing happens....

But if just 1 zergling from either side enters the fight... Then the neverending cluster of broodlings begin. So epic.

Haha, that is beautiful
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
November 13 2012 12:00 GMT
#1531
On November 13 2012 20:58 zocktol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:56 Ahelvin wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:55 Waxangel wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:54 Ahelvin wrote:
Guys.

Stephano is FRENCH.

One does not simply challenge a Frenchman's sense of fashion.


the other Europeans are laughing at you

It's because they don't know jack about fashion :p.

Especially the Germans.

Italians and Britons are among notable exception, though I'm not fond of Italian fashion.


You want us all to come to france again for some Blitzfashion?

The last time you did this guys, it was incredibly boring: we were all wearing the same uniforms !

BUT BRING IT ON BRO !

+ Show Spoiler +
<3
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
November 13 2012 12:01 GMT
#1532
GO HACK

May Hyun leave 30 supply army in his nydus!
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
November 13 2012 12:01 GMT
#1533
I wouldn't leave my children with Hack for sure.
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6168 Posts
November 13 2012 12:01 GMT
#1534
On November 13 2012 20:51 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:50 trwkling wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:49 felisconcolori wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:38 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:38 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:37 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:36 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:35 Otolia wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:34 opterown wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:33 Inzan1ty wrote:
gosh, MKP fanboys are still the most annoying, lol

will he become best player in the universe again, if he wins GSL?

well no way, he will beat Life, or even Leenock tho

zerosc2, go dig a hole somewhere until you get banned again

He has a point though. MKP fans are obnoxious ones, they have been on the Rain hype train lately but they can hop on and off whenever they feel like annoying the hell out the rest of us.


Excuse me I was never on the rain hype train and I've always been on Marineking's bandwagon even when he's getting stomped out of RO32 with bad play.

You deserve free Prime gear. You should ask for it !


I wish.

I want some for Christmas though. Could really use one of those Hoodies right now.

go on stream, they have giveaways each week, i won a t-shirt :D


Or, you PrimeZzang has a global page and offers all of the Prime gear you could ever need. Pricing is okay, not sure about shipping.

In other news, I hate you opterown. You do great LR threads, but for this I hate you.


I hate you too now opter
subscribe and participate on stream! it's a nice experience being able to interact with the pros we love


I would love to watch more streams, but work sucks that way. At least I can be happy knowing I was at MLG Orlando, and sat on the edge of the featured station to watch MKP play. (The neck pain from having to crane my head around like that was worth being 2 feet from MKP.)

Also, yes, subscribe and support pro teams and players, becuase it's good.

Now for Hyun to stomp on Hack.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
Mlex
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada324 Posts
November 13 2012 12:01 GMT
#1535
I feel Artosis is trying to set up jokes for Tasteless and quickly remembering he's solo-casting. >_<
"Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber." | MVP: the Royal Roadblock, the King.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
November 13 2012 12:01 GMT
#1536
On November 13 2012 21:00 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:59 Ahelvin wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:57 imallinson wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:55 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:48 GreyKnight wrote:
Is there any hope left for this GSL having good games T_T


Yesterday had excellent games mixed in with fail, today has been similar. The all zerg group will either be glorious or a complete clusterfuck.




I've got money on it being a glorious clusterfuck. :D


late game every game, moving armies of spines and spores, Nydus action everywhere only for the final confrontation to be BL/ infestor vs BLi/nfestor and no one ever wins.



It just ends in 5 solid minutes of broodlings killing broodlings into the entire lr having an aneurysm.

This is actually an excellent question !

If you put 10 broodlords on each side, face to face, with no other units, nothing happens....

But if just 1 zergling from either side enters the fight... Then the neverending cluster of broodlings begin. So epic.

Haha, that is beautiful


It's not, games like that actually exist.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
mint_julep
Profile Joined October 2009
United States254 Posts
November 13 2012 12:02 GMT
#1537
On November 13 2012 21:00 Waxangel wrote:
I'm excited to see Hack try to play macro games and lose horribly


Yeah. Poor hack. He gets a free win from Yoda being an idiot and now he has to get curb stomped on international eTelevision.
I hope Plexa's sig is right.
Clazziquai10
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore1949 Posts
November 13 2012 12:02 GMT
#1538
On November 13 2012 20:59 Ahelvin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 20:57 imallinson wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:55 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:48 GreyKnight wrote:
Is there any hope left for this GSL having good games T_T


Yesterday had excellent games mixed in with fail, today has been similar. The all zerg group will either be glorious or a complete clusterfuck.




I've got money on it being a glorious clusterfuck. :D


late game every game, moving armies of spines and spores, Nydus action everywhere only for the final confrontation to be BL/ infestor vs BLi/nfestor and no one ever wins.



It just ends in 5 solid minutes of broodlings killing broodlings into the entire lr having an aneurysm.

This is actually an excellent question !

If you put 10 broodlords on each side, face to face, with no other units, nothing happens....

But if just 1 zergling from either side enters the fight... Then the neverending cluster of broodlings begin. So epic.


Hahahaha I just love your logic XD
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33327 Posts
November 13 2012 12:02 GMT
#1539
someone should go and edit an old tastosis cast and remove tasteless' voice, like the garfield without garfield comic so artosis looks like an insane man
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
andaylin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States10830 Posts
November 13 2012 12:02 GMT
#1540
On November 13 2012 21:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 21:00 m0ck wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:59 Ahelvin wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:57 imallinson wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:55 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:50 ladyumbra wrote:
On November 13 2012 20:48 GreyKnight wrote:
Is there any hope left for this GSL having good games T_T


Yesterday had excellent games mixed in with fail, today has been similar. The all zerg group will either be glorious or a complete clusterfuck.




I've got money on it being a glorious clusterfuck. :D


late game every game, moving armies of spines and spores, Nydus action everywhere only for the final confrontation to be BL/ infestor vs BLi/nfestor and no one ever wins.



It just ends in 5 solid minutes of broodlings killing broodlings into the entire lr having an aneurysm.

This is actually an excellent question !

If you put 10 broodlords on each side, face to face, with no other units, nothing happens....

But if just 1 zergling from either side enters the fight... Then the neverending cluster of broodlings begin. So epic.

Haha, that is beautiful


It's not, games like that actually exist.

I would love to see brood lord+swarm host vs broodlord+swarmhost.
"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard." - Kevin Durant
Prev 1 75 76 77 78 79 98 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Circuito Brasileiro de…
20:00
Offline Playoffs
CosmosSc2 237
CranKy Ducklings175
EnkiAlexander 89
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 237
RuFF_SC2 188
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 61
Oystein3
Icarus 3
Dota 2
capcasts169
League of Legends
Grubby3639
Counter-Strike
summit1g9809
Stewie2K1338
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor225
Other Games
FrodaN4225
C9.Mang01024
ViBE217
Trikslyr69
ProTech60
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1623
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 63
• davetesta43
• poizon28 31
• Sammyuel 11
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 47
• RayReign 29
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2540
• Ler71
League of Legends
• Doublelift6784
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 30m
Road to EWC
13h 30m
Lemon vs HeRoMaRinE
Astrea vs GuMiho
goblin vs TBD
Ryung vs TBD
BSL: ProLeague
17h 30m
UltrA vs Sziky
Dewalt vs MadiNho
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
BSL: ProLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

NPSL Lushan
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.