Flying, Soulkey and Shy are all showing powerful SC2 games in comparison to the rest of the league. Ace last match looked really bad.
Beating Zero in BW is going to be a hell of a task, so the only way I see Ace winning is stealing the BW set 2-1 and then hoping they can get an upset in the ace match.
Stars is really strong this season. Flying's annoying as fuck music theme is going to be played a lot of times tonight.
On June 04 2012 13:35 Fionn wrote: Flying, Soulkey and Shy are all showing powerful SC2 games in comparison to the rest of the league. Ace last match looked really bad.
Beating Zero in BW is going to be a hell of a task, so the only way I see Ace winning is stealing the BW set 2-1 and then hoping they can get an upset in the ace match.
Stars is really strong this season. Flying's annoying as fuck music theme is going to be played a lot of times tonight.
Soulkey might not perform to his best tonight because he's has OSL tiebreaker match tomorrow. So Ace might upset the SC2 portion.
But yeah, Ace needs to do really good job against Woongjin since they are very strong this season.
i would, except the korean hd restream i've linked is also HD like the VLC one but doesn't lag as much, so i think that's a better option? hmmm.
Isn't it just a guy using the exact same stream link but in Korea, thus having a better connection to it? In any case, should put it in the OP anyway imo.
On June 04 2012 15:03 AbuntuGuntu wrote: I feel the need to pick a proleague team to root for but I have not been able to decide yet..will let it come to me over time I guess
Go for Woongjin if you like Mvp or KT if you like NesTea They are their former teams, respectively. (This is also a reason why part of me root for Woongjin).
On June 04 2012 15:00 Talionis wrote: Stars got this ezezez
ACE has the endearing (or annoying) trait of getting clean wins out of nowhere against teams at the top of the PL standings. It's the other matches that leave something to be desired.
ACE is at the absolute bottom of the list right now. Sure they can give upsets like when they won against KT at the beginning of the SPL, but I don't see them winning Woongjin, considering how much Stars has dominated their opponents in SC2.
On June 04 2012 15:43 KristofferAG wrote: FBH didn't stand a chance there
What's the equivalent to HSM to kill of the wraiths fleet if you go air?
Hunter Seeker Missile? To counter the wraiths he'd need Goliaths or Valkyries or more Wraiths, really. And scan. I don't know if there's any AoE spell that'd take them out easy.
Translation by Kimoleon over on nanashin's stream.
Q - fbh vs hon_sin, yesterday we had the joy of interviewing players who hadn't a lot, hello honsin how are yo hon_sin - feels gud
q - did you prepare stuff for interbiew? hon_sin - no I didn't q - why not hon_sin - I'm not 100% confident in my skills yet
q - because you haven't shown much yet, but I think your record will get better if you do hon_sin - if I get more broadcast games, I'll get better q - then ask your coach to send more hon_sin - it's been 3 years since I've been progamer, to the coaches and staff, I'll do better now please trust in me (aw)
I'd like to see this first TvT replayed with SC2 interface. Neither play was playing to their potential, definitely. But I think the game was so boring because TvT is a very mechanics-oriented game, and the map was huge. Not only that but the distance between player bases was huge, and even the distance between player expansions was huge.
I think TvT, even on such a big map, with great distance between expansions would be a very exciting spectacle if SCBW had crucial upgrades from SC2. That is, if SCBW had customizable hotkeys, automining, infinite unit selection, infinite structure selection, etc. aggressive play would be a lot more feasible. However, it's much easier to set up a tank line or a minefield than it is to attack one. So, in the absence of interface improvements it's natural that the game would devolve into a very long drawn out stalemate (neither player had the speed required to make aggressive movements effective, and so both players were forced to play passively).
Some would argue that Siege Mode and Spider Mines are the culprit (thus "TvT" is very passive). However, I think this boring, drawn-out stalemate wasn't the consequence of the nature of Terran. Rather, it was a combination of a multitude of factors, and my focus would not be on the Terran units, but rather on the absurd distance between expansions, the players (who both seemed quite downtrodden--and not given to playing a fast-paced aggressive game), and especially the unnecessary mechanical difficulties still present in SCBW.
The two major upgrades, in my mind, are automining and infinite building selection. Unless you've experienced SCBW at a high level, it's difficult to comprehend just how much of a balancing act is required to efficiently allocate actions between queuing new workers, sending workers to mine, and building new units, queuing each unit individually while panning the camera to the base and selecting individual factories. Just the necessity of panning the camera to create a production cycle or panning the camera to select individual workers and send them to mine makes an enormous difference. Let's say a player in SCBW spends 30% of their time and 50+% of their focus on panning the camera and constructing units, the same player in SC2 probably spends 10% of their time constructing units and 15% of their focus.
The mechanical advantages afforded by the interface alone are sufficient to change the game completely. Not to mention other absolute game-changing features in SC2 like smart casting. SCBW pros playing a modded SCBW that is modded with these interface upgrades would be playing an entirely different game, and playstyles would look nothing like they do today. Interface upgrades play a huge role in the strategic evolution of the game, and SC2's interface is part of the reason why the game seems to have been 'figured out' so much faster than SCBW
On June 04 2012 15:56 Failsafe wrote: I'd like to see this first TvT replayed with SC2 interface. Neither play was playing to their potential, definitely. But I think the game was so boring because TvT is a very mechanics-oriented game, and the map was huge. Not only that but the distance between player bases was huge, and even the distance between player expansions was huge.
I think TvT, even on such a big map, with great distance between expansions would be a very exciting spectacle if SCBW had crucial upgrades from SC2. That is, if SCBW had customizable hotkeys, automining, infinite unit selection, infinite structure selection, etc. aggressive play would be a lot more feasible. However, it's much easier to set up a tank line or a minefield than it is to attack one. So, in the absence of interface improvements it's natural that the game would devolve into a very long drawn out stalemate (neither player had the speed required to make aggressive movements effective, and so both players were forced to play passively).
Some would argue that Siege Mode and Spider Mines are the culprit (thus "TvT" is very passive). However, I think this boring, drawn-out stalemate wasn't the consequence of the nature of Terran. Rather, it was a combination of a multitude of factors, and my focus would not be on the Terran units, but rather on the absurd distance between expansions, the players (who both seemed quite downtrodden--and not given to playing a fast-paced aggressive game), and especially the unnecessary mechanical difficulties still present in SCBW.
The two major upgrades, in my mind, are automining and infinite building selection. Unless you've experienced SCBW at a high level, it's difficult to comprehend just how much of a balancing act is required to efficiently allocate actions between queuing new workers, sending workers to mine, and building new units, queuing each unit individually while panning the camera to the base and selecting individual factories. Just the necessity of panning the camera to create a production cycle or panning the camera to select individual workers and send them to mine makes an enormous difference. Let's say a player in SCBW spends 30% of their time and 50+% of their focus on panning the camera and constructing units, the same player in SC2 probably spends 10% of their time constructing units and 15% of their focus.
The mechanical advantages afforded by the interface alone are sufficient to change the game completely. Not to mention other absolute game-changing features in SC2 like smart casting. SCBW pros playing a modded SCBW that is modded with these interface upgrades would be playing an entirely different game, and playstyles would look nothing like they do today. Interface upgrades play a huge role in the strategic evolution of the game, and SC2's interface is part of the reason why the game seems to have been 'figured out' so much faster than SCBW
Part of why BW TvT is the match up it is is the slower pacing, you can't do half the things you can in BW TvT with the pacing of SC2, high level BW TvT is much more entertaining because there is the ability for players to recover from near fatal damage with strategic placement and skill in BW is something that hasn't been recipricated in SC2 at all. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145526
On June 04 2012 16:06 KristofferAG wrote: BW players so much better at spreading lings around the map to spot. In general just keeping their eyes open.
SC2 players don't need ling scouts, they got ferrarilords
On June 04 2012 16:03 leandroqm wrote: no sc2 games today yet?
BW series isnt over yet. 1-0
Thank you! I thought OP wasnt updated and I'm not watching the streams yet (bath first).
OP is always updated
hehe sorry =D I'm glad to know. I thought it was not updated because I had it on my mind that the games would start 2am (brazilian time)... don't know why :D (it's 4:10am now, btw).
On June 04 2012 16:06 KristofferAG wrote: BW players so much better at spreading lings around the map to spot. In general just keeping their eyes open.
SC2 players don't need ling scouts, they got ferrarilords
Yeah but they just leave them in the garage so people can come look at them if they want to, they never use them :<
On June 04 2012 16:16 Grobnik wrote: Gotta get ready to mute Flying's theme.
fuuuuuuuuuuuu
Prepare the mute.
ZerO played quite well that game, though G-chizzle wasn't able to get much harassment done, and ZerO's economy just let him steamroll with tons of macro and units. And that sandwich flank from ZerO was just awesome.
Interview translated by Kimoleon on nanashin's stream
q - you played the way you wanted, congratulations Zero Zero - ty
q - you're doing well in individual league, all is left is for you to perform in PL, how is your condition? Zero - my team so good, I can relax a bit in pl
q - right now woongjin so stronk in 1st place Zero - everyone on our team is a 1 win card
q - how was today's game playing against former team, guemchi Zero - feel a bit bad but can't lose, I know guemchi's style with lots of harass, i blocked it easily
q - Zero we'll expect more good games from you~ Zero - tyty
On June 04 2012 16:25 Talionis wrote: First SC2 game is Flying vs Stardust.
A PvP.
Who would have guessed?
Yeah, I just hope Woongjin sends Soulkey out for set 2 so we can avoid another vP game. But they can send out Shy instead because Soulkey might be preparing for OSL solely and not ready for a today SC2 game.
On June 04 2012 16:25 Talionis wrote: First SC2 game is Flying vs Stardust.
A PvP.
Who would have guessed?
Yeah, I just hope Woongjin sends Soulkey out for set 2 so we can avoid another vP game. But they can send out Shy instead because Soulkey might be preparing for OSL solely and not ready for a today SC2 game.
Also, lol at Flying theme.
Shy will probably be third. He's already 2-0 on Ohana this season.
On June 04 2012 16:30 Veldril wrote: Wait, did Flying just did the mineral trick on two close patch. The Slayer's coach is strong in this one.
Every BW progamer does that even in BW , they manualy micro their workers in BW to get the closest minerals in the early game . BW progamers are known for managing the economy well , macroing when needed and floating minerals when needed also when you don't need to max out fully . Flash especially is a god of economy management , macro and decision making thats why he is the best , his micro isn't so special but still pretty fucking good .
On June 04 2012 16:30 Veldril wrote: Wait, did Flying just did the mineral trick on two close patch. The Slayer's coach is strong in this one.
What's that mineral trick you're talking about?
Normally, if you just click your workers on the mineral patch, then it will spread out to mine at 1 probe/patch. So they will have to mine at the far patch too.
But there's a trick to force workers to mine at the same patch instead of spreading out. So one can make 2 workers mine from two close patches of minerals instead, which make him gain a little bit of more income in the beginning.
On June 04 2012 16:30 Veldril wrote: Wait, did Flying just did the mineral trick on two close patch. The Slayer's coach is strong in this one.
What's that mineral trick you're talking about?
Normally, if you just click your workers on the mineral patch, then it will spread out to mine at 1 probe/patch. So they will have to mine at the far patch too.
But there's a trick to force workers to mine at the same patch instead of spreading out. So one can make 2 workers mine from two close patches of minerals instead, which make him gain a little bit of more income in the beginning.
That's not what I've always seen "mineral trick" referred to, that's just simple worker stacking, and you'll find anyone with any degree of competency in SC2 does it, it's hardly some professional innovation. "Mineral trick" refers to making workers move through units and such I thought?
On June 04 2012 16:30 Veldril wrote: Wait, did Flying just did the mineral trick on two close patch. The Slayer's coach is strong in this one.
What's that mineral trick you're talking about?
Normally, if you just click your workers on the mineral patch, then it will spread out to mine at 1 probe/patch. So they will have to mine at the far patch too.
But there's a trick to force workers to mine at the same patch instead of spreading out. So one can make 2 workers mine from two close patches of minerals instead, which make him gain a little bit of more income in the beginning.
Oh ok, so you're just talking about worker stacking, which every random ladder player above gold does. Thought I was missing something new there...
On June 04 2012 16:30 Veldril wrote: Wait, did Flying just did the mineral trick on two close patch. The Slayer's coach is strong in this one.
What's that mineral trick you're talking about?
Normally, if you just click your workers on the mineral patch, then it will spread out to mine at 1 probe/patch. So they will have to mine at the far patch too.
But there's a trick to force workers to mine at the same patch instead of spreading out. So one can make 2 workers mine from two close patches of minerals instead, which make him gain a little bit of more income in the beginning.
That's not what I've always seen "mineral trick" referred to, that's just simple worker stacking, and you'll find anyone with any degree of competency in SC2 does it, it's hardly some professional innovation. "Mineral trick" refers to making workers move through units and such I thought?
Oops, I guess I used the wrong terminology then. Yeah, it's worker stacking, which I think this is the first time I saw in SC2 proleague. That's why I kinda surprised.
On June 04 2012 16:40 Otolia wrote: PvProleague is of abysmal quality.
There are some good games though . TvTs and ZvPs mainly and not all the PvPs are that bad :D .
The TvT's are usually pretty entertaining and scrappy. It's mostly due to the BW Terran skills carrying over and the fact that nobody goes banshee openers, lol. If the Kespa Terrans couldn't defend early banshees, those games would be super-awful too.
PvProleague is happening , because a lot of the teams are protoss heavy - SKT , Khan , ACE... are mainly protoss players , and the fact that protoss is the easier race to play in both BW and SC2 for the newer players .
On June 04 2012 16:54 opterown wrote: today's post count is decent compared to the last few days haha
The poor quality of the SC2 sets is probably driving many viewers away (although there have been some pretty good moments, such as Jaedong beating Lizzy). I can't really blame anyone who is content to wait until the players have time to practice the game properly (or those upset that such a transition would mean the end for a game they've followed for many years). The format is alienating in that sense.
There are some other factors at play, too - the esportstv youtube stream, which seems to be OGN's only real connection to foreigners, tends to crash or go mute very often. And on some days of PL, the matches do not appear on the calendar here or on reddit until the very last minute, which cannot help.
Well, I thought that this was Soulkey playing as always a great mind-fuck troll strategy. Then I read this SC2-forum thread and find out it was Chavi fail insted :D
Looks like the usual zergs that dominate BW dominate SC2 also . Zero , Soulkey , Effort and Jaedong have shown some good play . Jaedong still not in the best of form though . And what the fuck happened to Hydra he is missing in action ever since SC2 in PL .
Woongin crushing face this year with SC2 coaching. Not bad play from Soulkey. He could work on his creep spread but it was a solid build and transitions.
On June 04 2012 17:03 _Quasar_ wrote: Well, I thought that this was Soulkey playing as always a great mind-fuck troll strategy. Then I read this SC2-forum thread and find out it was Chavi fail insted :D
*okay face*
Chavi had his army split , because he was expecting mutas or something . Had part of his army at the main and third and the sentries and a few stalkers at the front . Still it was pretty bad .
On June 04 2012 17:03 _Quasar_ wrote: Well, I thought that this was Soulkey playing as always a great mind-fuck troll strategy. Then I read this SC2-forum thread and find out it was Chavi fail insted :D
*okay face*
Don't get that wrong. Soulkey's play and understanding is on a whole different level. Like, he engaged with lings first to force P to force field around the army and then he can engage with his infestors with fungal and surround the army with Infested Terrans.
But it's also Chavi failed quite hard with his army positioning that Soulkey get the chance to did that very easily.
Things aren't going too well for the terran players.
I think this is one thing that is different from GSL S1-3 where there was total terran domination (and still is to an extent). It seems that PL terran players are too passive. If they had watched any of the top terran players in SC2 (like MKP/MVP etc) they would have learned that its relentless aggression that wins them games. Actually to think of it Chavi was responsible for that also here. Apart from army positioning he let his opponent drone up on 3 base. There was none of the standard early game (zealot/void rays etc) pressure and its pretty well know that turtling against a zerg is the worst thing anyone can do.
On June 04 2012 16:54 opterown wrote: today's post count is decent compared to the last few days haha
The poor quality of the SC2 sets is probably driving many viewers away (although there have been some pretty good moments, such as Jaedong beating Lizzy). I can't really blame anyone who is content to wait until the players have time to practice the game properly (or those upset that such a transition would mean the end for a game they've followed for many years). The format is alienating in that sense.
There are some other factors at play, too - the esportstv youtube stream, which seems to be OGN's only real connection to foreigners, tends to crash or go mute very often. And on some days of PL, the matches do not appear on the calendar here or on reddit until the very last minute, which cannot help.
In other news, nice attack by soulkey.
The biggest problem is the 4:3.
Sc2 fans are used to 720/1080p beautiful quality streams.
Couple that with inferior games and you can see why we're choosing GSTL over Pro League right now.
Should they bring in an English stream, proper resolution and when the play improves interest will surely increase dramatically.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e8Wd0.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3dBHR.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FOCLQ.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pHNkJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bWMes.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jieA1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cbVOl.png)
hOn_sin <New Sniper Ridge> 
ZerO <Neo Electric Circuit> 
GuemChi![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9XBeU.png)
They are their former teams, respectively. (This is also a reason why part of me root for Woongjin).
