When: Wednesday (7/13/2011) from 7:00 to 9:00 pm EST
Format: The clan war will consist of a best of 7 match-up, with each team fielding 4 players, and each player having one ‘life.’ The start map will be decided before the match begins by the administrators. After the first round, the losing team will pick a map, with the winning team vetoing one map from the pool (No substitutions or revives will be allowed.). No maps other than the start map may be reused. The winning team will take home $100.
As much as I think this is likely going to be onesided I want prime to lose atleast one match so I get to see MKP play. Regardless of the result I think this is an awesome initiative to have foreigner team play koreans outside of the GSTL. Especially prime lol, they need the team game practice as they are horrible at the GSTL despite having awesome talent.
On July 12 2011 10:48 Frequencyy wrote: This is gonna be sickkk imo Prime will dominate but was vVv gaming disbanded?
I believe it was VT, things may get confusing though. For both of us. Anyway, it will be 4-0 or 4-1 for prime. I can't see vVv winning against anyone other than Hannibal or Nettie (one of them, maybe, I don't even think they can win against both). Prime clan never delivered good results in Gisado Clan #1 but they never had MarineKing in the lineup either. Especially if it's an all kill format.
On July 12 2011 22:56 Alejandrisha wrote: you guys really underestimate murder and time titan when they are working hard (as time comes back from a week of being away..........)....
I'm still holdin out for our doods.
vVv fighting!!
No offense to you guys, you're a good team in the foreign scene... But it's Prime, and they have MKP playing as well, even if you do manage to beat their starting player he will clean house.
vVv vs .....one of the best teams in the world? I have actually not heard of most of these prime players. It seems like its Prime's B team + MKP vs vVv. Good luck to vVv, as you will definitely need it. Even the some of the top NA teams would probably have difficulty against these players.
On July 13 2011 00:58 garlicface wrote: I had a dream where I was reading TL, and saw blade55555's post congratulating you guys for really good games. Result was 4-3 Prime.
What a fucked up dream hahaha.
Edit: By "fucked up" I mean dreaming about browsing TL. Good luck!
On July 13 2011 00:58 garlicface wrote: I had a dream where I was reading TL, and saw blade55555's post congratulating you guys for really good games. Result was 4-3 Prime.
What a fucked up dream hahaha.
Edit: By "fucked up" I mean dreaming about browsing TL. Good luck!
I'm thinking 4-0 prime myself, no offense vvv-buddies. Maybe 4-1. Good luck of course. If y'all win it'll be a pretty big deal.
Edit: Here's how I see it. Murder may win first game (benefit of the doubt), and then lose tvt. Ruff will try to all-in and lose. Time will hold strong and barely lose. And then Titan will fight a REALLY amazing TvZ. And then get MMA dropped.
On July 12 2011 23:08 VirgilSC2 wrote: I think it's a bit odd to not have the GSL Maps in the map pool :/
Map pool has remained constant throughout all of the WNS events (9 weeks now). We use MLGs maps to prepare our players and everyone else for MLG play. Koreans have now shown interest in going to MLG so it is more then likely that they are training with the MLG map pool.
On July 13 2011 00:58 garlicface wrote: I had a dream where I was reading TL, and saw blade55555's post congratulating you guys for really good games. Result was 4-3 Prime.
What a fucked up dream hahaha.
Edit: By "fucked up" I mean dreaming about browsing TL. Good luck!
lol what thats weird! I just hope for some entertaining games :D
On July 13 2011 07:24 Geophagus wrote: I really don't see mid-level American pros beating even the B-team players of a top Korean team like Prime.
I think you overestimate how strong koreans are, especially in a best of 1.
I've beaten many koreans in tournaments the first game of a Bo3 (including bboong), then lost the other two, and recently beat Killer in a Bo3. I'm confident that titan, murder and hasuu can also take games from players like Bboong. MKP might be on another level, but I think you will be surprised ^^.
On July 13 2011 07:24 Geophagus wrote: I really don't see mid-level American pros beating even the B-team players of a top Korean team like Prime.
I think you overestimate how strong koreans are, especially in a best of 1.
I've beaten many koreans in tournaments the first game of a Bo3 (including bboong), then lost the other two, and recently beat Killer in a Bo3. I'm confident that titan, murder and hasuu can also take games from players like Bboong. MKP might be on another level, but I think you will be surprised ^^.
I have a feeling time will be the one to take down bboong and possibly the other player they send vs him. Should be a good clan war with some good matches excited to watch!
FXO have been all killed 2 times in a row. Want to know how many other teams have had the sad opportunity of experiencing that? None. Having said that, Prime have never won a match in GSTL and Marineking has been disappointing in Team Leagues and Best of 1's in general. So vVv has a shot, but not a very good shot.
On July 14 2011 06:10 Glon wrote: SHIT I can't make it tonight.... have food bank volunteer stuff to do. Where will be the vods (please record)
They are always uploaded on our twitchtv account after the match.. We also save the replays and host them on vvv-gaming.com If you cant find them PM me and I can give you the direct link
On July 12 2011 10:27 FryktSkyene wrote: No offense but MKP would wreck all of vvv's people.
I don't know mate, vVv has got some pretty talented people.
Just look at FXO in the GSTL. They are getting roflstomped and they have "some pretty talented people". I expect the same kinda roflstomping to happen to vVv here and, hey, I hope I'm proved wrong, I just can't see anything but a 4-0 or 4-1 result.
I suppose, but no one wants to see their former team mates lose eh?
On July 12 2011 10:27 FryktSkyene wrote: No offense but MKP would wreck all of vvv's people.
I don't know mate, vVv has got some pretty talented people.
Just look at FXO in the GSTL. They are getting roflstomped and they have "some pretty talented people". I expect the same kinda roflstomping to happen to vVv here and, hey, I hope I'm proved wrong, I just can't see anything but a 4-0 or 4-1 result.
I suppose, but no one wants to see their former team mates lose eh?
On July 12 2011 10:27 FryktSkyene wrote: No offense but MKP would wreck all of vvv's people.
I don't know mate, vVv has got some pretty talented people.
Just look at FXO in the GSTL. They are getting roflstomped and they have "some pretty talented people". I expect the same kinda roflstomping to happen to vVv here and, hey, I hope I'm proved wrong, I just can't see anything but a 4-0 or 4-1 result.
I suppose, but no one wants to see their former team mates lose eh?
On July 12 2011 10:27 FryktSkyene wrote: No offense but MKP would wreck all of vvv's people.
I don't know mate, vVv has got some pretty talented people.
Just look at FXO in the GSTL. They are getting roflstomped and they have "some pretty talented people". I expect the same kinda roflstomping to happen to vVv here and, hey, I hope I'm proved wrong, I just can't see anything but a 4-0 or 4-1 result.
I suppose, but no one wants to see their former team mates lose eh?
On July 14 2011 08:21 Tekkerz wrote: Murder is incredibly sloppy under pressure
bongbong's is way worse xD. His resources have been insanely high all game.
Lol I'd say Murder was worse. Blocked at 145 for at least 2 minutes, maybe 3. No defense of lings, no lifting CC or moving scvs. Zergs money often gets high when you tech switch to infestors.
On July 14 2011 08:21 Tekkerz wrote: Murder is incredibly sloppy under pressure
bongbong's is way worse xD. His resources have been insanely high all game.
Lol I'd say Murder was worse. Blocked at 145 for at least 2 minutes, maybe 3. No defense of lings, no lifting CC or moving scvs. Zergs money often gets high when you tech switch to infestors.
I play zerg and I don't get 5k minerals and 2k gas at 130 food. BbongBbong's macro was really bad, his micro was questionable. Murder got supply blocked due to the muta's and losing his CC's and some supply depo's.
glad to see Murder's tvz looking a lot better then last I saw.
BbongBbong played horribly, bad engagements, not punishing terran for double expoing when he had just lost all his forces etc.. He could have easily won with a baneling bust in the first few minutes..
For those saying Prime is bad after the first game let me just say this... 1. they are just waking up 2. They are playing with a latency 3. Only A team player they have in the lineup against vVv is MKP the rest are their b team players.
Im sure that optimus and check with MKP would be 4-0 against vVv no offense.
On July 14 2011 08:48 HikariPrime wrote: For those saying Prime is bad after the first game let me just say this... 1. they are just waking up 2. They are playing with a latency 3. Only A team player they have in the lineup against vVv is MKP the rest are their b team players.
Im sure that optimus and check with MKP would be 4-0 against vVv no offense.
On July 14 2011 08:48 HikariPrime wrote: For those saying Prime is bad after the first game let me just say this... 1. they are just waking up 2. They are playing with a latency 3. Only A team player they have in the lineup against vVv is MKP the rest are their b team players.
Im sure that optimus and check with MKP would be 4-0 against vVv no offense.
I wish Prime had sent out some of their better players. It's nice seeing Murder beat BboongBboong and Nettie, but clearly both of those are bottom-tier Prime players. It would've been awesome to see Murder take on Hongun, Check, and Polt (in addition to MKP).
On July 14 2011 09:05 flojito wrote: I wish Prime had sent out some of their better players. It's nice seeing Murder beat BboongBboong and Nettie, but clearly both of those are bottom-tier Prime players. It would've been awesome to see Murder take on Hongun, Check, and Polt (in addition to MKP).
On July 14 2011 09:03 oskarla wrote: I've never heard about vVv team before but they look quite legit o.o will they go to Anaheim?
I think only Time is, I mean if you watch any of the leagues they beat teams like One (now gosuesports or w/e), EG they are tied like 2-2, they won SCL1, placed second in SCL2 (beating EG to make it to the finals I believe), they placed 3rd (I think or 4'th) in ESEA. Very underrated team and yet teams that lose to vVv get invited to the bigger clan leagues so thats why you don't see them in any of those. They dont' get credit its all "luck" according to some of the organizers of those events ^^.
As much as some people are protesting that Prime is just sending B team players, it still feels good to see a foreign team beat a B team. Murder has always been, at least in my eyes, one of the standouts on vVv, but he's still far from the top of the foreign scene, so for him to be beating B teamers from a pro Korean team, is still pretty damn cool!
On July 14 2011 09:05 flojito wrote: I wish Prime had sent out some of their better players. It's nice seeing Murder beat BboongBboong and Nettie, but clearly both of those are bottom-tier Prime players. It would've been awesome to see Murder take on Hongun, Check, and Polt (in addition to MKP).
No offense to vVv but they aren't exactly the top foreigners either so seeing them win some games against Korean progamers (which means that these guys live in the Prime practice house and practice together 8-12 hours a day) is pretty nice.
On July 14 2011 09:05 Fighter wrote: As much as some people are protesting that Prime is just sending B team players, it still feels good to see a foreign team beat a B team. Murder has always been, at least in my eyes, one of the standouts on vVv, but he's still far from the top of the foreign scene, so for him to be beating B teamers from a pro Korean team, is still pretty damn cool!
On July 14 2011 09:05 flojito wrote: I wish Prime had sent out some of their better players. It's nice seeing Murder beat BboongBboong and Nettie, but clearly both of those are bottom-tier Prime players. It would've been awesome to see Murder take on Hongun, Check, and Polt (in addition to MKP).
Even if Nettie d Bboong are not the best Prime players, they would never lose to these na guys without lag. Results not surprising atm
On July 14 2011 09:05 flojito wrote: I wish Prime had sent out some of their better players. It's nice seeing Murder beat BboongBboong and Nettie, but clearly both of those are bottom-tier Prime players. It would've been awesome to see Murder take on Hongun, Check, and Polt (in addition to MKP).
Even if Nettie d Bboong are not the best Prime players, they would never lose to these na guys without lag. Results not surprising atm
sorry I play on korea, and my macro does not fall apart like Bbong's did. It is possible sense they are waking up but no that game 1 was not due to latency.
Especially sense some of them play in the FXO tournaments and do very well.
On July 14 2011 09:05 Fighter wrote: As much as some people are protesting that Prime is just sending B team players, it still feels good to see a foreign team beat a B team. Murder has always been, at least in my eyes, one of the standouts on vVv, but he's still far from the top of the foreign scene, so for him to be beating B teamers from a pro Korean team, is still pretty damn cool!
Prime plays their B team in the GSTL as well? o_O
You know what he means. BboongBbonong and Nettie might get a run out once in a while (bboongbboong's even managed a couple), but they are nowhere near Prime's core.
really disappointed with the level of play so far regardless, hopefully this game raises the bar.
On July 14 2011 09:23 Alou wrote: Liked the hellions from hannibal.
Yea, I don't often see that play. But when I do, it's just so damn devastating. Oh well. Good work Murder, you took down some good players!
I don't care what you guys say, even if they are "B" teamers they are still a lot better than a lot of Foreigners, especially considering Murder does not play all that often. Versus the Koreans who train for hours on end.
On July 14 2011 09:35 sitromit wrote: Ruff getting owned...
shouldn't be a surprise to anybody at all ^^.
Oh ye of little faith.
Ruff had one point where he had a shine of hope. But his poor micro/macro let him down. Oh well, well done RuFF, it would be stressful to be in your position.
On July 14 2011 09:35 Alou wrote: Ruff is playing poorly.
Don't get why he didn't just went marauders and amove to the win. Same mistake from Murder (who played very well, I love discovering players I didn't knew gameplay wise), even tho murder has less time to prepare.
WTF titan, how is that possible to get such a lead, bank 7k minerals and make such poor decisions... mass roaches agains mass tanks, really?? It frustrating to watch
On July 14 2011 09:59 Kamais_Ookin wrote: Titan has the worst macro I've ever seen, 9k minerals like a bronze scrub it's hurting my eyes.
Although I do agree with you, he was also trying to get was gas intensive units, but if you noticed he was consistently at only 100gas at any moment. Watch what you say mate.
I will agree that Titan did have this game at some point, but too many poor decisions really lead to his downfall. But none the less he did well. It was just a shame that he made some poor decisions.
On July 14 2011 09:59 Kamais_Ookin wrote: Titan has the worst macro I've ever seen, 9k minerals like a bronze scrub it's hurting my eyes.
Although I do agree with you, he was also trying to get was gas intensive units, but if you noticed he was consistently at only 100gas at any moment. Watch what you say mate.
The WRONG gaz intensive units ( if u consider making mass roaches gaz intensive vs a mass tank Terran.... )
Would somebody explain me the reason behind the hell Titan build that many roaches ? Roaches are not all that good against Terran. And for some strange reason he upgades Melee Attack with an Army that was mainly roaches. VERY Very strange game from Titan.
On July 14 2011 10:10 s3rp wrote: Would somebody explain me the reason behind the hell Titan build that many roaches ? Roaches are not all that good against Terran. And for some strange reason he upgades Melee Attack with an Army that was mainly roaches. VERY Very strange game from Titan.
See the quote above you from Nestea, he wanted to lose apparently.
On July 14 2011 10:10 s3rp wrote: Would somebody explain me the reason behind the hell Titan build that many roaches ? Roaches are not all that good against Terran. And for some strange reason he upgades Melee Attack with an Army that was mainly roaches. VERY Very strange game from Titan.
Titan was doing well with roaches, he forgot to put some drones at his 3rd gas so he didn't have enough gas to keep his unit compo + get to hive and get BL's in time. He could have won that.
Titan wasn't actually macroing bad at all (he even had 18 larva stacked on his hive before it got took down for example) its just that he needed more gas and His main problem was his unit composition and supply while he couldn't get cost effective engagements against a build that confused him, leaping from 3 fact hinting mech play into mass bio
On July 14 2011 10:15 Aven wrote: Titan wasn't actually macroing bad at all (he even had 18 larva stacked on his hive before it got took down for example) its just that he needed more gas and His main problem was his unit composition and supply while he couldn't get cost effective engagements against a build that confused him, leaping from 3 fact hinting mech play into mass bio
LAck of bRoods and me not scouting as effectively. Thank you sir, you get it. I promise to show better games in the future and I realize I blew it.
On July 14 2011 10:15 Aven wrote: Titan wasn't actually macroing bad at all (he even had 18 larva stacked on his hive before it got took down for example) its just that he needed more gas and His main problem was his unit composition and supply while he couldn't get cost effective engagements against a build that confused him, leaping from 3 fact hinting mech play into mass bio
LAck of bRoods and me not scouting as effectively. Thank you sir, you get it. I promise to show better games in the future and I realize I blew it.
Dont be so hard on yourself man, that was still a very good game!
Thought it was over after T push. Great job by Time. Still think he should have canceled the expo though. Perhaps he didn't see all the army with that probe? Want to see the replay. :/
On July 14 2011 10:18 Alou wrote: Thought it was over after T push. Great job by Time. Still think he should have canceled the expo though. Perhaps he didn't see all the army with that probe? Want to see the replay. :/
I'm pretty sure he didn't see that army until his nexus finished.
On July 14 2011 10:20 VirgilSC2 wrote: Excellent games so far from vVv, really glad to see you guys taking it to the wire with Prime! Time fighting!
What members of vVv will be at Anaheim and Raleigh?
Time is going to Anaheim, don't believe any of the other sponsored players are, for Raleigh I believe time/titan/murder for sure or I believe unless that changed recently ^^. I think all of them but alej were at the last MLG but I might be wrong.
On July 14 2011 10:20 VirgilSC2 wrote: Excellent games so far from vVv, really glad to see you guys taking it to the wire with Prime! Time fighting!
What members of vVv will be at Anaheim and Raleigh?
Time is going to Anaheim, don't believe any of the other sponsored players are, for Raleigh I believe time/titan/murder for sure or I believe unless that changed recently ^^. I think all of them but alej were at the last MLG but I might be wrong.
On July 14 2011 10:10 s3rp wrote: Would somebody explain me the reason behind the hell Titan build that many roaches ? Roaches are not all that good against Terran. And for some strange reason he upgades Melee Attack with an Army that was mainly roaches. VERY Very strange game from Titan.
His lair was sniped right as it was morphing into a hive.
On July 14 2011 10:10 s3rp wrote: Would somebody explain me the reason behind the hell Titan build that many roaches ? Roaches are not all that good against Terran. And for some strange reason he upgades Melee Attack with an Army that was mainly roaches. VERY Very strange game from Titan.
His lair was sniped right as it was morphing into a hive.
This is the last time I'm going to respond on this thread. I should have had greater spire morphing when that drop came had I played correctly. During my push to his 3rd,the correct timing would to have started the hive. Sadly, because of my arrogance, I did not.
On July 14 2011 10:31 Geophagus wrote: these casters are like the opposite of totalbiscuit
Crota and Matron are a very great casting duo whose personalities work very well together! They are very professional and knowledgeable about the game.
Well done to every vVv member. You guys were great. Although I got to say a big thanks to Prime for playing on the NA server. Everyone played extremely well and you can only learn the more you play right?
Special shout out to Murder and Time, well done guys! And to the other vVv members, you guys played extremely well and deserve to be congratulated for it. Also the casters were extremely entertaining to listen too, hope you see you guys again next week.
Finally a note to the ignorant defenders of Prime in this thread who continue to say that vVv only did well due to latency or that Prime never sent out their good players, I got one thing to say. Grow up. vVv did really well, stop being ignorant.
On July 14 2011 11:52 WarChimp wrote: Well done to every vVv member. You guys were great. Although I got to say a big thanks to Prime for playing on the NA server. Everyone played extremely well and you can only learn the more you play right?
Special shout out to Murder and Time, well done guys! And to the other vVv members, you guys played extremely well and deserve to be congratulated for it. Also the casters were extremely entertaining to listen too, hope you see you guys again next week.
Finally a note to the ignorant defenders of Prime in this thread who continue to say that vVv only did well due to latency or that Prime never sent out their good players, I got one thing to say. Grow up. vVv did really well, stop being ignorant.
On July 12 2011 10:48 Frequencyy wrote: This is gonna be sickkk imo Prime will dominate but was vVv gaming disbanded?
Nah I believe that was a guy just trolling
Actually I wasn't trolling. I said it was going to be sick because I love seeing Prime play and I mistaked vVv for VT just because somebody says something you think is dumb or weird doesn't make in trolling.
On July 12 2011 10:48 Frequencyy wrote: This is gonna be sickkk imo Prime will dominate but was vVv gaming disbanded?
Nah I believe that was a guy just trolling
Actually I wasn't trolling. I said it was going to be sick because I love seeing Prime play and I mistaked vVv for VT just because somebody says something you think is dumb or weird doesn't make in trolling.
no he was talking about a guy who created a thread a little bit ago who said vVv disbanded. he thought maybe you read that but didn't see that was false
He was talking about the guy who created that not you :D
On July 13 2011 00:58 garlicface wrote: I had a dream where I was reading TL, and saw blade55555's post congratulating you guys for really good games. Result was 4-3 Prime.
What a fucked up dream hahaha.
Edit: By "fucked up" I mean dreaming about browsing TL. Good luck!
What the fuck? Who will win in tonights GSTL match?
On July 13 2011 00:58 garlicface wrote: I had a dream where I was reading TL, and saw blade55555's post congratulating you guys for really good games. Result was 4-3 Prime.
What a fucked up dream hahaha.
Edit: By "fucked up" I mean dreaming about browsing TL. Good luck!
What the fuck? Who will win in tonights GSTL match?
On July 14 2011 10:15 Aven wrote: Titan wasn't actually macroing bad at all (he even had 18 larva stacked on his hive before it got took down for example) its just that he needed more gas and His main problem was his unit composition and supply while he couldn't get cost effective engagements against a build that confused him, leaping from 3 fact hinting mech play into mass bio
LAck of bRoods and me not scouting as effectively. Thank you sir, you get it. I promise to show better games in the future and I realize I blew it.
Not saying what Aven said was wrong, but the part about not having bad macro is incorrect. Having 18 unused larva is in fact... bad macro. I agree with the rest though.
Thanks to everyone who tuned in. It was a blast to cast. The first two games made me feel like it was going to be a 3+ hour event. For those of you who missed the games and want to watch the VODs, they are being posted up on my channel and Matrons channel as quickly as we can get them up.
On July 12 2011 10:48 Frequencyy wrote: This is gonna be sickkk imo Prime will dominate but was vVv gaming disbanded?
Nah I believe that was a guy just trolling
Actually I wasn't trolling. I said it was going to be sick because I love seeing Prime play and I mistaked vVv for VT just because somebody says something you think is dumb or weird doesn't make in trolling.
no he was talking about a guy who created a thread a little bit ago who said vVv disbanded. he thought maybe you read that but didn't see that was false
He was talking about the guy who created that not you :D
This wasn't calling you a troll but rather the guy who made the thread saying vVv disbanded, which was closed... Then remade
On July 14 2011 22:37 Chronald wrote: Without NGry they stand no chance sadly...
Good to see this kind of thing happening, but the lack of NGry makes me wonder who is running the show over there at vVv...
Hello. One of the guy's who runs the show... Why do you feel this way? NGry hasn't been practicing much. And when we asked who wanted to play he wasn't one that said 'yes'. So it was mainly his own doing.
On July 14 2011 23:38 FiWiFaKi wrote: Too bad I missed it, if anyone wouldn´t mind recommending maybe two games to catch from the series to kill an hour I´d appreciate it.
On July 14 2011 10:15 Aven wrote: Titan wasn't actually macroing bad at all (he even had 18 larva stacked on his hive before it got took down for example) its just that he needed more gas and His main problem was his unit composition and supply while he couldn't get cost effective engagements against a build that confused him, leaping from 3 fact hinting mech play into mass bio
LAck of bRoods and me not scouting as effectively. Thank you sir, you get it. I promise to show better games in the future and I realize I blew it.
Not saying what Aven said was wrong, but the part about not having bad macro is incorrect. Having 18 unused larva is in fact... bad macro. I agree with the rest though.
It's hard to call that bad macro when he had so much larvae because he was already maxed. I'd actually agree to calling it good macro because he kept up his larvae injects even while he was maxed.
On July 14 2011 23:35 Xiaon wrote: this makes you wonder what would have happened if they had fielded their good players oo
I would say bboongbboong nettie and hannibal are good players, pretty sure prime played them in their GSTL matches. The only really good player I can think of that they didn't play was polt, and I personally think marineking is still better than polt.
I'm extremely surprised that it was as close as it is. I have to say congratulations as even though they couldn't win, they competed very closely and could win if they were given another oppurtunity.
On July 15 2011 02:26 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm extremely surprised that it was as close as it is. I have to say congratulations as even though they couldn't win, they competed very closely and could win if they were given another oppurtunity.
I'd say it wouldnt be close.. because prime has noticed how strong that vVv was for a relatively unknown team and would need to play Optimus, MKP, and their other top players >_>
On July 15 2011 18:32 Sated wrote: This is me eating my words, good going guys! Much closer than I thought it was going to be. Of course, I think things would've been different if MKP had come out first, but I guess the Prime team wanted to put on a show and test some of their other players just as much as you guys wanted to show you could compete!
Well that would be for anything considering MKP is one of the very best terrans in Korea. A team shouldn't have to rely on 1 player though to win a clan war thats normally the sign of a weak team .
There would be no shame to be AK'd by MKP if they had played each other and that did happen.
EPT
vVvMurDeR
vVvTime
vVvTitan
Gl to Prime and vVv
