EPTA lot of people confuse macro game with sitting in your base for 20 minutes only macro. If you have map awareness, trying to put as much pressure as possible on your opponent and really micro your units to the max you will improve the most. However you constantly have to remind yourself to do these thing. If you all in you are forced to attack and force yourself to multitask.
[D] All-ins (Immortal/Sentry) good for improving? - Page 6
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
A lot of people confuse macro game with sitting in your base for 20 minutes only macro. If you have map awareness, trying to put as much pressure as possible on your opponent and really micro your units to the max you will improve the most. However you constantly have to remind yourself to do these thing. If you all in you are forced to attack and force yourself to multitask. | ||
|
tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
| ||
|
MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On September 23 2012 21:30 Zrana wrote: These threads crop up every so often. Allow me to translate the real meaning: "I all-in every game but feel like it's just cheap wins and i should play macro. However I don't wanna lose so help me justify all-inning as a valid way to play". It is a valid way to play... | ||
|
MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On September 24 2012 09:15 Messi wrote: Obviously not. It's all in, and there are many builds besides 7 gates all in. It only works in plat and diamond, sometimes in masters if you execute perfectly. It will let you win easily, but I suggest you to practice other builds besides 7 gate all in to you to use various builds for futur This build works regularly in the gsl. Why do people like you feel the need to pull random bullshit facts out of your arse? It's pathetic | ||
|
GT350
United States270 Posts
| ||
|
Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On September 25 2012 01:22 SidewinderSC2 wrote: Running just one build and closing options for so much understanding of the game doesn't really make you better. And being better != rank. You can get a high rank by using abusive cheeses, as displayed on TL multiple times. That doesn't mean you're good at the game. "Improving" means patching up every weakness you have. And the only way you will do that is if you can actually understand what you need to improve. You should find a macro style that you feel comfortable with, which can potentially mine out the map, but keep you alive or in a good position throughout the game. For example, you can always macro in PvZ by taking a 3rd base on just 1 gateway, add gates and defend for your life if you are comfortable with that style. You can macro by researching Blink and getting a handful of sentries, then take a 3rd base. Doing this will teach you what you will die to, how you can improve your build and how you can improve your control. It forces you to take a build and stretch it out as far as you can, relying only on your own skill and understanding of the game. You should try to do this in every matchup if you really want to improve. Anybody can all-in, and it doesn't help them understand the game, and therefore does not lead to them improving as a complete player. I agree with this post for the most part, except that this isn't an abusive cheese- it's a powerful timing attack that requires good mechanics and timings to execute. For improving mechanics, this is definitely one of the best ways to do so. However, as Sidewinder said it doesn't improve game sense. But I can guarantee (and I think many players can attest to the fact) that having solid mechanics and macro is more important than game sense, and that game sense is considerably easier to learn than mechanics. For example, if you try to play a macro game with bad macro, then you might lose with a winning strategy that you simply executed poorly. Even if you watch the replay, all you'll see is that you got supply blocked here, floated minerals there, ect, because you were trying to do too many things at once. If you focus on mechanics first, then decide to start playing macros games and lose, it's far more likely due to a flaw in your build and can be readily fixed by watching the replay and actually learning something from it since you've already fixed all your problems with getting supply blocked and floating minerals and other silly mistakes. | ||
|
Leru
Romania257 Posts
| ||
|
CeRipH
United Kingdom23 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:24 MateShade wrote: This build works regularly in the gsl. Why do people like you feel the need to pull random bullshit facts out of your arse? It's pathetic Indeed! Also just to add I really don't see what's wrong with practising a build like this. It's not as if it's a six pool and eventually you'll get to a level where you'll start getting beaten more often; as long as you focus on adapting once that happens I think it's a valid way to improve. | ||
|
MostGroce
United States104 Posts
| ||
|
Discarder
Philippines411 Posts
I think it is only a build order. With a little adjustment, you can actually try to just remove the word 'all in' by just making fewer gateways and attacking units and making an nexus instead of going for an attack. Voila! You've got yourself a macro opening! The principle after that is 1. Denying zerg his 4th (or 5th) as long as possible. Dont go for the kill. 2. Keep your important units alive 3. Secure bases yourself so you can get the final unit composition that you like. 4. Sometimes the zerg has his own broodlord deathball which is slow. You must take advantage of this with counter attacks/split armies. The point here is having map presence after getting your deathball. So that he won't have gas for his own. Thats a perspective from a zerg player :D | ||
|
Abusion
United Kingdom184 Posts
| ||
|
tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
"if you only practice what you're good at, you won't be good at much" and "if you're afraid to lose in here (practice) you aren't gonna win out there (competition)" | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
While it may give you wins and give you a specific time period to practice in, getting the build down, getting good FF, positioning, etc, it cannot give you more help than how to execute a build properly and how to micro. So...my suggestion to you is to try to drop down a 3rd nexus with that extra money instead of making gateways, wait until you're maxed, AND THEN attack. You still hit a timing, you still need to focus on microing correctly, but then you've actually practiced macro and how to correctly balance your economy and defend on 3 bases. | ||
|
Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
But I don't recommend to do the Immortal/Sentry allin for all the time, especially because it works only on specific maps like Antiga Shipyard or Ohana. Instead, I would try to improve my macro by taking a 3rd. I get my 3rd in my ladder matches at around ~8-9 minutes after FFE -> Gate -> 3 Gates -> Twilight -> Robo. I think that's a great infastructure to get a 3rd in PvZ at this time. | ||
|
SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
that this isn't an abusive cheese- it's a powerful timing attack that requires good mechanics and timings to execute. Yeah, I wasn't calling this build abusive or cheese. I'm saying somebody can use abusive cheese builds in order to attain a high rank, but a person being ranked highly doesn't necessarily mean they are a good player. | ||
|
iggym
United States49 Posts
I'll eventually need to address issues with my late-game, but I love how these have just let me focus on the basics. These builds are effective and have okay transitions (except the ZvZ). The key thing is that they give me very concrete benchmarks to hit every single game, and it's helped me with a lot of multitasking that was very difficult for me to handle (unit positioning, map vision, creep spread, overlord scouting) because I can execute the basics (inject timing, keeping larva low, keeping minerals low) without much variation up until the push. BL/infestor play is really, really, difficult to handle when you have deficits in those basic things. And just simple things like baneling busts and maneuvering lings around banes improved my micro enough to at least stop me from suiciding my infestors into tanks or getting my BLs chopped up by the tiniest number of vikings. | ||
|
MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On September 27 2012 01:18 iggym wrote: Not sure if anyone cares about the opinion of a first-post low-level Zerg player, but the #1 thing that has been helping me improve my macro and mechanics is picking out a strong timing push or all-in, sticking to it, and benchmarking myself in every game. 11:00 roach max in ZvP, 9:00 bang/ling/roach push in ZvT, and a speedling all-in in ZvZ. My MMR has skyrocketed after gold-league stagnation and I feel so much more comfortable with my mechanics. I'll eventually need to address issues with my late-game, but I love how these have just let me focus on the basics. These builds are effective and have okay transitions (except the ZvZ). The key thing is that they give me very concrete benchmarks to hit every single game, and it's helped me with a lot of multitasking that was very difficult for me to handle (unit positioning, map vision, creep spread, overlord scouting) because I can execute the basics (inject timing, keeping larva low, keeping minerals low) without much variation up until the push. BL/infestor play is really, really, difficult to handle when you have deficits in those basic things. And just simple things like baneling busts and maneuvering lings around banes improved my micro enough to at least stop me from suiciding my infestors into tanks or getting my BLs chopped up by the tiniest number of vikings. The zvp and zvt have decent enough follow ups into the mid and late game. A 2 base lair roach timing in zvz would be a bit better than the speedling allin where you cut drones at 18-20. | ||
|
kcdc
United States2311 Posts
| ||
| ||
