EPTnew post on spoiler tag (THE T v EVERYTHING build)
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THE T v TPZ STANDARD BUILD ORDER VS EVERYTHING IS AS FOLLOWS <3
Now I'm no Platinum Player, nor DO i actually have a BETA KEY (I play on my friends account that is in GOLD LEAGUE), I play about 8-20 games every few days and I believe I have about a 75% win ratio against most players at this 'matchmaking' level.
10 supply SCV finishes and scouts ASAP
12 barracks SCV finishes and builds supply wall (2nd depot)
14 refinery 2 SCVs on gas (don't take any off you need it for next few steps)
15-16 orbital command you should have exactly around 150 minerals and SCV just finishing
2nd supply around this time that SCV that built the barracks
1 marine usually against scouting worker
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MULE ASAP AND AS MUCH AS YOU CAN
18-20 command center all your economy at this point is waiting for 400 minerals to build a command center
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2ND BARRACKS
3RD BARRACKS
these 3 barracks should complete JUST in-time against some early game all-ins, or at least those that i've seen so far
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ENGINEERING BAY
1. bio is STRONG from start to finish against all races
2. early upgrades means TIMING PUSHES +1/+1
3. turret(s) deters dark templar rushes
4. turret(s) deters cloaked banshees when your orbital command energy is down from mules
5. PLANETARY FORTRESS EXPO strategy to follow
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2ND refinery
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(on your barracks obviously, you should have enough gas by now from harvesting earlier)
TECHLAB
REACTOR
REACTOR
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+1 ATTACK TO INFANTRY WEAPONS
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MACRO PRODUCE 4 MARINES AND 1 MARAUDER UNTIL YOU CAN MOVE OUT
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SECURING YOUR EXPO AS YOU MOVE OUT:
Obviously your experience comes into play here as to how many units you need to defend this
critical movement.
Basic guidelines as follows:
If you scouted more tier one production facilities then he'll have more combat units PROBABLY as you move out. the number and timing of his units coming in obviously depends on his race, unit choices and building locations (proxy buildings too)
1. A spare SCV can run to his base if you want to be extra safe, or you can scan
2. land command center at natural and build a PLANETARY FORTRESS
3. I transfer about 6-8 SCV, someone will probably do the math on it one day
4. Build 1 turret at least and 1-2 bunkers
5. MAP CONSIDERATIONS
- double entrances should be scouted / visioned accordingly
- stronger choke points need lesser bunkers / probably no need for a planetary fortress if you want to be macro greedy with mules or ready with scans
Thoughts on planetary fortress:
It's just too good against most TIER 1 unit rushes during this timing. You can repair and micro your SCV and they'll give up on your expo and just try breaking your ramp which can be unit blocked by your ground army/walls anyway. Although it is NOT NECESSARY to have a planetary fortress if you scout a lesser early aggressive build anyway, most of the time just building it deters many early attacks anyway (especially stubborn players that choose to get slaughtered causing them to lose the game losing so many units)
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CONTINUE PRODUCING SCVS / MACRO WAVES OF UNITS 4 MARINES 1 MARAUDER UNTIL YOUR CHOKE POINT 'FEELS SECURE'
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+1 ARMOR TO INFANTRY
RESEARCH STIMPACK
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3RD refinery
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FACTORY
FACTORY REACTOR
STARPORT
STARPORT ON FACTORY REACTOR
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MACRO WAVES OF 4 MARINES 1 MARAUDER AND 2 MEDIVACS
I usually push out after 4 medivacs, by that time +1/+1 and STIM should be done WHEN YOU GET THE ENEMY'S BASE/EXPO with MARINE shields to follow.
It's roughly 9-10minutes into the game when I'm at their front door or getting through the backdoor.
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From here either the game ends with me winning a timing push or winning map control. This same build has worked against all races so far, except some good roach all-in builds that get in through the backdoor that I've been working to be more weary of. The critical point of any FE build anyway is your lack of units to counter quick backdooring during your expo setup and I advise you change your builds on these maps. Like lol blistering sands with the stupid rock formation that is 10 units wide that allows 10 roaches in within the first 5+ minutes.
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Some race dependent deviations:
4TH BARRACKS WITH REACTOR or TECHLAB
- TvT i just mass more marines
- TvP techlab to get GHOSTS if he gets a quick colussus
- TvZ more marauders if he goes with banelings
FACTORY WITH REACTOR
- TvZ hellions work well to kite banelings and can be macro'ed just as well with 4 marines, 1 marauder and 2 medivacs, you can also macro this during your first push off of your 2 bases
STARPORT WITH TECHLAB
- TvZ mid-late game i think it's the must have AoE if he's better at macro, i've failed though remember to use Ravens effectively
Basically I want to play a standard game meaning a safe opening that would minimally mean a decent timing for expanding (fast expanding preferably) leading up to a mid-game timing push and or end-game macro battle.
Take note I understand every map especially is different and certain builds would need to be modified blah blah blah, proxy areas scouted etc etc.
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1. TvP
Something I hate though is the loss of map control versus protoss without spider mines, I mean sure I can incorporate some hellions and run them around and scare the protoss into a turtle for fear of run bys, but I'm just bad at using hellions or just don't see them as anything more then a waste of minerals in the early to mid-game as even zealots can chew them up. (does patrol move still work with them though?)
Oh yeah, on DT rushes, yeah i think the timing is around 30 like broodwar, but since you got scan and you shouldn't need to worry too much about DT's if your scv scout lives past cybernetics core going up.
There is also this STUPID build where protoss scouts on 7, and proxies 4 gateways somewhere by the 4:00 mark and has 4-5 zealots ready by 4:30. this also discourages most forms of tech openings and opts for bio right after scouting an empty base. Even if you block well, repairing against 4-5 zealots will usually have you killed and his economy won't be that far behind anyway.
things that have been working
A. bio/with air opening expand
strengths
- can deal with most zealot/immortal timing pushes
- early harass forces stalkers made instead of zealots/tech/quick expo
- mass mid-game bio chews up most protoss units pre-storm because
weaknesses
- storm
- colossus if you don't spread your units out / scout it and build some vikings
- you'll need to be good at macro'ing multi-rax's and a few ports lol MBS
10 depot
11 rax / scout
12 gas
make a marine if ever / block ramp with depot
ORBITAL COMMAND
2nd gas
FACTORY
STARPORT
STARPORT TECHLAB
1 banshee
BANSHEE HARASS (keeps protoss in their base most the time)
COMMAND CENTER
BARRACKS with reactor
STARPORT
STARPORT REACTOR
pump some MEDIVACS
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pump out units from starport/2 rax or add a third rax if he stays in the base until
orbital command on 2nd command center is finished inside base
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secure expansion
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PUMP MORE MARINES/MARAUDERS, upgrade damage/shield/stim
harass if you can with banshees
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GRAB RAVENS (science vessels) to push out
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1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a into protoss expos and dodge storm
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probably some ghosts before or after this point
B. 1 rax fe, with good scouting/quick bunkers on some maps
strengths
- stronger gas heavy mid-game, mech viable (tanks and stuff)
- strong timing push if you mass up well?
- easier to push into enemy base
- return of the mech vs toss
weaknesses
- TERRIBLE against most good zealot heavy with immortal timing attacks
- you can't really do much until you have LOTS of marines or other units to support your tanks
- VOIDLOL rush gota scout it or you won't have a starport/reactor up in time?
10 depot
11 rax / scout
12 gas
ramp block with either DEPOT or BARRACKS TECH LAB
ORBITAL COMMAND
a marine if you need
FACTORY
2nd gas
mules everytime it's up until after your CC is started
COMMAND CENTER
research siege/make a tank
BARRACKS with reactor
build 2nd orbital command inside base and scan if you have to, or mule right away
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this timing is critical here,
1. scout with an scv as you lower your depot whatever direction the guy is coming in
2. you should have around 3-4 marauders and 2-4 marines, and 2 tanks, with siege almost done that will push out or setup at the CHOKE
3. build 1-2 bunkers if you can't scout or want to play safe, transfer some scvs, and have them build 2 refineries right away, MULE as much as you can get away with it, it will help macro up some factories right after
4. if defending an attack use your scvs to block and/repair bunkers/ramps/tanks
5. build 1 extra factory with techlab and a starport with reactor
6. research stim
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then when you can macro
2 tanks
2 medivacs or viking/medivac
2-4 marines (3rd rax)
1-2 marauders (3rd rax)
every macro 'wave' you can start pushing out with saved scans/scv scouting
(you should have about 3-4 of these waves before moving out)
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just don't get caught not siege'd with your 'infantry' not setup and your first push should at least hold outside his natural
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as far as hellions go, well i'm probably just terrible at using them but lol they die so quick to almost everything,
things that HAVEN'T been working for me but i like doing anyway
take note these are mostly builds done that include an 18-30 supply command center
A. ghosts and tanks
- GAS IMPOSSIBLE until you get like 6 gas (3 bases) even with a gamble 17-20 supply expo command center at your natural
B. ghosts and marines/marauders
- you won't have much fire-ing force against a regular mix of zealots, stalkers, immortals even after emp'ing them, besides, you'll need about 3 rax for this and 2 of them with tech labs to pump ghosts/marauders at least as you push out, the force is way to thin
C. pure siege expand (broodwar style TvP)
- only works on like 2-3 maps -_-
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TvZ
Probably the easiest race to FE against given proper scouting. Basically you can roll over most Zerg with a superior timing push after FE'ing and proper muta-defense and anti-banneling micro.
Working against 1 base Roach rush was probably the easiest thing to learn after watching how it was done.
The strongest post-FE problem for me is how to break zerg map control with SPEEDLINGS (HOLY SHIT) and Banelings with TERRIBLE giant control group MICRO when they start macro'ing up to counter my first few medivac pushes.
I'm trying to work on the post mid-game framework though. I think it involves quick tech to ravens with seeker missiles like science vessel irradiates OR cloaked banshees.
The meta-game still looks the same after the FE, a. go for a timing push and destroy his natural / run-by into his main / sunken break / pre-muta push 'defense turrets' b. if your push fails or he plays defensive hunt his 3rd and keep his gas down or else c. he makes TONS of ULTRALISKS or BROODLORDS which just eat up marines so quickly. Even hydralisks are more buff and don't explode as much as they use to, probably because medics > medivacs because you just made so many more.
so yeah here
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A. 1 rax FE bio
strengths
- strong production against 2 expo builds (hell i duno, i haven't seen a zerg go for 3 hatcheries early on (queens are too good anyway))
- your upgrades and muta defense is actually quicker then broodwar timings (i think)
- you should be able to defend against roach all-ins easily with 3rax right after CC
weaknesses
- if zerg macro-up and play defensively (speedling/banneling flanking) after your timing attack/drop and you fail, you'll be playing catch-up quite a bit with QUEEN MACRO
- HYDRAS are strong vs marines, practice timing for using your expos gas to transition into ravens/banshees(cloaked)? if you get out macro'ed
10 depot
11 rax / scout
depot after rax to block ramp
make a marine if needed
ORBITAL COMMAND and MULE ASAP
build your 2nd CC in base
start your refinery
build 2nd BARRACKS
build 3rd BARRACKS
start your 2nd gas if you want to timing push upgrade with an engineering bay right after
as soon they are done pump some marines from first rax
build REACTORS on 2 of them
build a TECHLAB on 1 of them
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pump marines/marauders until orbital command on 2nd cc is finished
push out with scv scout ahead, build bunkers as needed and transfer scvs
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CUT marines/marauders if you've scouted that he hasn't built that many units so you
can build a factory/starport->reactor -> MEDIVACS asap / stim / shields
ENGINEERING BAY can come right after 3rd rax if you want to +1
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really easy to scan for mutalisks builds so don't build too many turrets
build 1 up front for burrowing roach builds
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after first 2 medivacs go for first push or wait for next 2 (4 total) your +1/stim should be done by now (about 60-80 supply)
B. double port banshee rush
strengths
- really unexpected timing (lesser zerg meta-game timing learning phase anyway)
- after you destroy their queen (which is good in itself) it's ground damage is so good that even 2 banshees can quickly take out the spawning hydra den and/or evolution chamber pretty quickly (op)
- can hold against roaches anyway just in case he decides to counter
- you can send in a hellion to fool around as your are teching but you are somewhat exposing your build but not really
weaknesses
- you have 1-2 marines at the most to defend/repair against pre-banshee breaks (non-so far that are quick enough) most zerg players know terran can block well in sc2 anyway lol
- if you fail your attack, especially if he expanded, (quick hydra den or evo chambers up) you'll have to setup your command then make raxes, which will delay your actual force buildup time
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10 depot
11 rax/scout
11 refinery
block ramp with depot
build a marine if necessary (i usually don't until i get attacked)
MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T SCOUT WITH HIS OVERLORD USE YOUR MARINE
orbital command center
2nd refinery
FACTORY
STARPORT
STARPORT
add dual tech labs
rally to enemy base
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if your attack is successful continue pumping banshees to take out his 'ground to air' tech structures (den/blahblah blah)
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if he blocks it, prepare for a counter, pump some marines -> BUNKER
start up your COMMAND CENTER (if he expo'ed)
followed by 2 rax with reactors, then just play from there
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build a medivac as soon as you can so you can drop him and keep him in his base
things that HAVEN'T been working for me but i like doing anyway
take note these are mostly builds done that include an 18-30 supply command center
A. 1 rax into FE at expansion
- I mean some maps have the choke points, but most don't, besides something is different about the mining efficiency anyway (excluding mules) that means you really don't need the be transferring too many scvs right away anyway. auto surround is just way too good, and honestly scv blocking or unit blocking in general is just chunky.
ON another note, i can't micro marines/marauders for crap when i have my medivacs flying above them, probably means that I should control group them better off to the side -_-, whatever.
B. 2 rax into FE
- i think the 3 rax is important or atleast 2 rax with reactor is important if you want to push out as soon as your 2nd cc's orbital command is done, i've checked the timings on roaches and you should have macro'ed enough marines/marauders (about 10-14) by the time 6-8 roaches come up to your base
- although you can get away with 2 rax after your CC anyway, only with good scouting I'd do it and use the minerals instead to get quicker medivacs (factory-starport), but i'd usually not push out anyway with a force that thin with 2 medivacs unless i'm rushing him, but the timing would be awkward anyway because you've already built a CC prior to the the drop
C. fantasy build
- vikings are cool against overlords but most maps are unforgiving with huge chokepoints that don't allow strong ground superiority with tanks/hellions.
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TvT
I thought it was my best match-up until recently when most builds that destroyed my FE variants were simply, 3-4 rax reactored marine builds. There are quite a few meta-game thoughts I have on this simply because most of the fights are quite ugly and end up becoming a who can macro the most marines fest while controlling the air with vikings and or banshees.
Initial builds I did that I thought were successful (all have orbital command first)
1. expo then siege into vikings / map control
- command centerthen double gas into siege tanks / dual vikings and control the map
- the timing WAS impossible vs quick banshee harass into cloak/marines
2. siege / vikings into expand / harass
- you can honestly almost forget siege for your first move, just defending against banshees and or just making your or own banshee's seems to have developed it's own meta game
BUILDS that have been successful (all have orbital command first)
1. make 3 BARRACKS and reactors and mass marines then go rush him down
- it honestly works too well, the macro on it is just too good with mules... they will probably nerf it, or buff like siege tanks to stop against this 'garbage play'
- marines are also strong against his quick banshee's
- marines are also strong (at their numbers at the time of the attack) against his 'teching siege tank'
- some people have been proxy'ing cc's (12-14 supply timing) then building 4 rax at hidden expos then just going all in, although as you scout him and find out he has nothing at his base, the time it takes you to either proxy a barracks at his main or find his expo, he's probably ready to go with 3-4 barracks, your best counter is just to build 3-4 rax yourself but you see, he just expo'ed and protected himself anyway with 4 rax built on top of the expo, even if his main dies / runs away, he's made enough money to outnumber your marines. It's weird how I explained it but the way I see it is almost every race T1 or macro mineral tools are so strong that you can pretty much get away with almost most forms of early game cheese without much economical damage
2. quick tech to banshees or vikings then start expanding and play macro game
- this is also quite viable, thing is here, if he goes 3 BARRACKS you gota defend it with 'something' which is usually nothing except multi-walls and good repairing and maybe a bunker, you obviously need to scout him for the garbage 3 rax build if you want to play a 'fun' game of TvT
3. air superiority
- this means if you kill his banshees you have more vikings (if you both went ports)
- this means if you lose your vikings and he has banshees your marines are fucked without scan energy
- this means he can simply run some marines into your expos to take out the turrets then he can drop his viking mech army to clean up
- this means your tanks can't do anything against banshees except wait behind turrets
- doesn't it suck not having goliaths?
