close land top - nat2nat = 35 seconds (115 map units) close land bottom - close air left - nat2nat = 41 seconds (133 map units) close air right - short cross - nat2nat = 45 seconds (148 map units) long cross - nat2nat = 49 seconds (160 map units)
very nice looking map, although I'm kind of tired of the lost/shattered temple type 4-base layout. Cross possitions also makes the map a bit too big, imo.
The lava is so red on the minimap on my screen for some reason. Certain spots look so much like enemy units on the minimap that I found it kind of annoying after a little bit. Not sure if you should feel accountable for that, but yeah...
it feels like a 4 player crossfire, really tight. but i really like the terrain and overall concept, just maybe open it up a bit and itll be a great map. just looking at it as a zerg player, i cant find anywhere on the map where i would actually want to engage somebody.
Thanks guys. U can always count on me to try and push some boundary
It took ages adjusting the layout, with input from players, TPW team members as well as people here on this forum. When doing a reflectional symmetry map, it´s almost impossible to have close spawns and cross spawns within reasonable distances. Only one in 6 games will have the long spawn, which is about 9 seconds longer than Tal`Darim. So I think it´s playable. I don´t like forced spawns on maps, I like one map to have the unpredictability of random spawns.
On August 07 2011 03:21 EcstatiC wrote: it feels like a 4 player crossfire, really tight. but i really like the terrain and overall concept, just maybe open it up a bit and itll be a great map. just looking at it as a zerg player, i cant find anywhere on the map where i would actually want to engage somebody.
That´s because you don´t realize how huge this map is It´s friggin huge! There are actually a lot of open ares for Zerg to engage.
On August 07 2011 03:21 EcstatiC wrote: it feels like a 4 player crossfire, really tight. but i really like the terrain and overall concept, just maybe open it up a bit and itll be a great map. just looking at it as a zerg player, i cant find anywhere on the map where i would actually want to engage somebody.
try the map, it is not wide open, but it always provides an extra path. so a terran can never be all save, but feel insecure if his posioning is good or not
i guess this map asks for some more micro than one expects as it seems to be a macro-crazy giant thing.
imo it is great. and it looks almost better. the amount of detail is just right to make the visuals look really good yet they do not disturb gameplay.
Aesthetics: I absolutely love the theme you used on the outskirts of your map. Great eye-candy and really makes me want to create a lava map of my own. I like that you always come up with something new i haven't seen before. You also picked a pretty cool name for your map. I am not into the space station theme though, so i don't like the middle area that much. More lava would have been cooler in my opinion, but that's just my taste. The lightning might be too dark though. It sure looks cool, but it doesn't advocate to gameplay.
Layout: As a protoss/terran, i think it's very hard to get a 3rd base up if your opponent goes a muta/ling on this map. The 3rd suggested by the map analyzer is very uncomfortable because it is pretty far away and forces you to place your army at a quite exposed position in order to defend properly against ground attacks. It's also quite far away from your main and natural in case Mutalisks pay a visit to them. The huge area behind the main, natural and 3rd makes it a nightmare to deal with mutalisk harassment. Maybe you can shift the 3rd's setup so the minerals are adjecent to the main's plateau. This way it would be closer to the Natural, and easier to defend against air harassment, while it's still very open against ground attacks. Turrets/Cannons placed on the ledge can also be used to defend 3rd and the main's production facilities to some extent against air. This would it also make more comfortable to take a 4th. At the moment i would feel like i am forced to make pheonix to fend off air harassment, or use a 2-base allin against zerg.
I am digging this, but I will have to try it some. It is huge, there are some open areas, but overall the thing that people forget when playing zerg a lot is that yes closed of chokes are problematic, but with a map like this there are a ton of air harass and speedling counter attack paths to take advantage of.
By looking at it this map seems quite good, but the haters like to hate because one of the more unexplored areas in SC2 so far is really strong map analysis from a player perspective and how to not only change one's build order and overall strats, but find out the strengths of your map and take advantage of them. Keep it up!
On August 07 2011 10:07 spinnaker wrote: i'm not hating, i'm just trying to give good feedback .
Oh no no no, that is not what I meant bro at all. I meant in general there are a lot of haters. Sorry if it seemed directed at you. I had not even read the other comments, just the OP.
Overall it's a good layout & the aesthetics of the map is wonderful. Although, I agree completely with what Spinnaker said. It seems taking a third as terran or protoss is going to spread you out waaay too much especially since all the bases have so much air space around all of them. There are two bases I really don't like, which are the ones at 11 & 5 o clock (the ones behind the golds) They just feel out of place, maybe it's just me though.
Might be a little too large as well, but /shrug. :D
Also, are those little high ground pieces right outside the mains suppose to be path-able? The Analyzer says they are but I'm assuming they aren't meant to be.
Fixed lighting I have a tendency to overexpose lighting in my maps. There are certain terrain features that look better with higher contrast and specular, but I forgot how that can influence the look of units, warp fields etc. Now I just took New Folsom lighting and changed hue a little to fit my theme.
Also I realized the map borders were set to 186x166. That is a mistake, it was supposed to be 178x166. Fixed!
Aesthetics: I absolutely love the theme you used on the outskirts of your map. Great eye-candy and really makes me want to create a lava map of my own. I like that you always come up with something new i haven't seen before. You also picked a pretty cool name for your map. I am not into the space station theme though, so i don't like the middle area that much. More lava would have been cooler in my opinion, but that's just my taste. The lightning might be too dark though. It sure looks cool, but it doesn't advocate to gameplay.
Layout: As a protoss/terran, i think it's very hard to get a 3rd base up if your opponent goes a muta/ling on this map. The 3rd suggested by the map analyzer is very uncomfortable because it is pretty far away and forces you to place your army at a quite exposed position in order to defend properly against ground attacks. It's also quite far away from your main and natural in case Mutalisks pay a visit to them. The huge area behind the main, natural and 3rd makes it a nightmare to deal with mutalisk harassment. Maybe you can shift the 3rd's setup so the minerals are adjecent to the main's plateau. This way it would be closer to the Natural, and easier to defend against air harassment, while it's still very open against ground attacks. Turrets/Cannons placed on the ledge can also be used to defend 3rd and the main's production facilities to some extent against air. This would it also make more comfortable to take a 4th. At the moment i would feel like i am forced to make pheonix to fend off air harassment, or use a 2-base allin against zerg.
Picture:
Wow! Thanks for your in depth analysis. Good point about the 3rd. I will make sure to keep that in mind as I test the map further. Spawning close positions is always annoying if a 3rd is hard too to take. When spawning close air, a 3rd is even harder to take, which is my intention, however I do not intend it to be impossible I will continue testing this map and improving it as I learn more.
With regards to air harrass I think it´s not as bad as you illustrated on the picture. Main and natural are close to the map border, so you can delete half of those arrows you put there. You can only attack from the sides, just like so many other maps. I want air harrass, hence all the pretty lava but within reason of course. I´ll keep that in mind as well.
I love the huge maps you've made recently (void rift, green harvest and crimsonite). It's a pretty wicked style and so hard to pull off. By now you could host a tournament using only your own maps and I'm sure it would be a pretty epic one
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Oa8Mj.jpg)
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It´s friggin huge! There are actually a lot of open ares for Zerg to engage.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WpKqH.jpg)
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How are we supposed to compete now 
