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@rsoultin: I've described my meta read on Palmar before, in games where you've played. It's pretty simple. I described it here, too, in my post. What about that explanation do you not understand?
My read on Palmar has been pretty good over the last several games by observing this trend.
@Eden: I described using both quotes and explanations why I characterize your play as I did.
@All:
Look at how Eden started the game in his last two games as town. Both times, he was direct and to the point with insight and reads to get things going.
Here, he's been all over the place. Instead of an early scumread or push to get the game started, there's "I want the miller to claim, does anyone disagree?" It's completely different and lacks direction.
Eden has felt more involved since, but he still hasn't been doing anything, it feels like he is reacting instead of making things happen. Maybe there's something to do with his time of entrance to the thread, though, I'll check.
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Palmar is town because he doesn't do this as scum  Simple. 100% correct.
Well, okay, not 100% because he didn't actually do anything, but close to it for the other additional reasons that I gave.
Anyway, Eden's entrance in his two latest games was significantly later than his posts in this game. Maybe I'm overestimating the interest of the thread early on. I'll look at Eden's filter again.
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Change of subject. Most of my posts refer to focus with regards to solving the game, IE figuring out people's alignments. Making reads.
I don't feel that asking for millers to claim accomplishes this. And regardless of opinion, it certainly doesn't replace sharing reads and solving the game.
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That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm trying to say, though.
I had a feeling that no one would understand this point  Feeling confirmed.
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I found Palmar's push on Breshke interesting, I found sicklucker's first few posts interesting, I found Breshke's response to Palmar's push a bit interesting, and I found some of Tictock's post somewhat interesting.
Rsoultin, did you find any of these things interesting?
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On February 16 2016 11:47 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2016 11:41 Trfel wrote:
I found Palmar's push on Breshke interesting, I found sicklucker's first few posts interesting, I found Breshke's response to Palmar's push a bit interesting, and I found some of Tictock's post somewhat interesting.
Rsoultin, did you find any of these things interesting? I'm glad you did, but that doesn't make them of any objective interest in determining their alignments. You can also just come out and say that you think I'm mafia for failing to find these things interesting instead of using these veiled snippy rhetorical questions. Eden, that's what I'm saying. That wasn't a veiled snippy rhetorical question because:
I'm making my stance clear
That wasn't a rhetorical question
Though I suppose "snippy" is a matter of opinion.
Though I am doubting that you would be annoyed as mafia here. It doesn't make sense.
I guess it's more likely that I'm just being stupid I should really figure out that people don't place the same importance as I do in things.
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On February 16 2016 11:58 Breshke wrote:
Trefel what is SL's alignment?
Also could you quote specific posts of TT's you found interesting? I found Tictock's play surprisingly active, I'm not used to Tictock having a larger presence in the game. He also seemed rather relaxed. However, I think I remember Tictock being one of those players who almost seem more involved and willing to interact as scum than as town, I'll check that when I have more time.
I feel that sicklucker is slightly more likely town for being both more and less argumentative than I expected. Sicklucker has a very weird stance for mafia to take, and I'm not used to sicklucker admitting that he made an error and trying to work with me as mafia. Last time I was suspicious of sicklucker and he was mafia, we yelled at each other for a while and he just out-yelled me instead of answering my statements. So I actually think he's more likely town.
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Eden, please allow me to clarify, I'm not saying that your setup talk was useless, pointless, or scummy. I'm not criticizing the validity of anything you have said.
I want to townread Tictock for his relaxed tone and decent activity, but I feel hesitant because I remember thinking he was town for those reasons one game where he was mafia.
I feel that Breshke's reaction to Palmar's push is a bit towny. That feels like a really stupid thing for mafia to do, because it's a horrible reaction. If Palmar decided to push me early Day 1, I'd be extremely careful and cautious with how I responded, I wouldn't throw away a response like "nope". Breshke is also a methodical town player.
I think that's about all I have. I should have some time to go over stuff again tomorrow morning.
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I found the general trend across Tictock's posts interesting. Like, his willingness to respond and easy-going tone. I can pull up a few random posts if you'd like, but it's a general trend, it's best seen by looking through his filter.
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On February 16 2016 12:27 GlowingBear wrote:
WHO'S MAFIA? Hi, GlowingBear
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Eden, nothing I said had anything to do with what you did. It's all about what you DIDN'T do.
I specifically said that setup speculation is not mafia indicative. I stated this several times that this is NOT why I was scumreading you.
I was scumreading you for being separated from the thread and completely ignoring everything else that was going on. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, but when coupled with how seriously you took the setup talk, to me it seemed extremely suspect. This argument is clear throughout my posts.
Eden's second series of posts showed willingness to interact and involvement in the game, directly contradicting my arguments, causing me to strongly reconsider. Furthermore, my meta had an extremely serious flaw.
It frustrates me greatly when people say that my arguments are things that they clearly aren't when half of my argument is explaining why this isn't what I'm saying in the first place. If you're going to call my argument bad, please actually acknowledge that you understand what my argument is first. Thanks.
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Setup speculation is not alignment indicative. I think it's of minimal value, you can disagree, but whatever. Either way, it's not something that is hard for mafia to do, and mafia does it a reasonable amount. Town also does it a reasonable amount.
I am capable of understanding the arguments for simple things like "the miller should claim", thank you very much. It's just not alignment indicative in and of itself.
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On February 17 2016 08:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 07:58 Trfel wrote:
Eden, nothing I said had anything to do with what you did. It's all about what you DIDN'T do.
I specifically said that setup speculation is not mafia indicative. I stated this several times that this is NOT why I was scumreading you.
I was scumreading you for being separated from the thread and completely ignoring everything else that was going on. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, but when coupled with how seriously you took the setup talk, to me it seemed extremely suspect. This argument is clear throughout my posts.
Eden's second series of posts showed willingness to interact and involvement in the game, directly contradicting my arguments, causing me to strongly reconsider. Furthermore, my meta had an extremely serious flaw.
It frustrates me greatly when people say that my arguments are things that they clearly aren't when half of my argument is explaining why this isn't what I'm saying in the first place. If you're going to call my argument bad, please actually acknowledge that you understand what my argument is first. Thanks. Except that at no point was I separated from the thread? I led off with setup posting and immediately started doing other things (townreading rsoultin, talking to Tictock) as they came up. This has been demonstrably and flagrantly false from the outset. You basically said that I was scum for talking about setup spec at the alleged expense of other things. Since I was talking about other things, that alleged expense was not actually an expense, and your argument becomes "Eden is scum for talking about setup spec." When someone calls you out on how my setup spec was pro-town you handwave it as irrelevant and continue pushing this line of argument. Why are you so confident in Tictock being town? I don't have great reasons to townread him right now, and I didn't see anything in your filter, correct me if I missed something?
Anyway, you don't have to say that my arguments are incorrect by responding to arguments that I didn't actually make. I'm well aware that town is perfectly capable (and often does) talk about setup. I've already directly explained what caused me to say the things that I did, with quotes and specifics, and I've specifically shown what caused my read to change, so I have nothing more to say on the matter.
I'm slightly leaning town on Tumblewood, his posting feels a bit more free than last game. It's a weak read, but I think it will be made more clear in time.
My biggest suspicion is probably The Shining right now, but that's not a very big suspicion I need to reread the thread when I can, but I'm doing a pretty lousy job of finding mafia. I'll try and get to it later tonight.
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On February 17 2016 08:05 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:
I am capable of understanding the arguments for simple things like "the miller should claim", thank you very much. It's just not alignment indicative in and of itself. So it's not alignment indicative for me to push a line of argument that only helps town? If I'm mafia and doing it then I'm reducing my own team's outs to redchecks to get towncred when I can do other things to get towncred without reducing those outs. It's a strictly worse line of play than several other ones, like simply being fake-afk until real stuff happens that I can talk about. This is correct, I don't think that it is at all alignment indicative. However, I disagree that it is a strictly worse play.
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Oh yeah, and people get mad at me when I say who I'm suspicious of without posting reasons.
The Shining still hasn't come back, to me this makes his posts feel a bit dry. Suddenly vanishing, in addition to still not having come back, while seeming to be interested in his sicklucker read earlier, feels off to me, however it's quite early in the game and it's possible that he's just suddenly busy or a bit disinterested for some reason.
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On February 17 2016 09:32 rsoultin wrote:
not lynching the truffle ^^ he sounded like a truffle
what does a truffle sound like?
truffle sounds like a truffle in this game
#circularreasoningftw And you say that my reads are useless...
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On February 17 2016 10:40 sicklucker wrote:
rsoultin is giving me mafia vibes but I still wouldnt lynch her day one because like me she has a sick ability.
Its called the spew yourself town ability its the best ability to have Sicklucker, you do know that the "spew yourself town" ability is most easily activated while being lynched, right?
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I wasn't asking for an explanation, I was mentioning something that I thought was funny....
Anyway, I'm nearly caught up, so then I can go through the thread and once again completely fail to find mafia! Looking forward to it!
Does anyone have someone they'd like me to give additional attention to? Maybe sicklucker and Palmar?
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I thought you're not lynching Breshke because he is a good devil's advocate?
In your above post, don't you imply that you not lynching Breshke has bearing on Palmar's alignment? (ie his main scumreads are town, and you don't like this) But if I am correct in your reason for not lynching Breshke, why would you be surprised that Palmar doesn't care about this reason if he is town?
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On February 17 2016 11:33 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 11:28 Trfel wrote:
I thought you're not lynching Breshke because he is a good devil's advocate?
In your above post, don't you imply that you not lynching Breshke has bearing on Palmar's alignment? (ie his main scumreads are town, and you don't like this) But if I am correct in your reason for not lynching Breshke, why would you be surprised that Palmar doesn't care about this reason if he is town? pfft i'm not lynching breshke because when he's a good devil's advocate and looking at everything from all sides he pretty much invariably is town -beats with a wet noodle- palmar having different reads from me is not related to why i'm reading anyone the way i am; we're just both tone-type players and i've noticed that our reads have been converging more and more as time goes on, even if for different reasons tbf though usually when we're both town and we differ he's right >> bastard Okay, that makes more sense.
To be honest, I didn't see your scumreads on Shapelog and scott31337... yay for me. I'll take a look when I go through stuff again, but I thought that Shapelog genuinely enjoyed playing as mafia? So I'm not sure why his happiness would be forced regardless of alignment. But I'm really bad with this stuff anyway, you probably know what you're talking about.
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EPT
