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On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading  Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense?
Not really, no.
Because the read is purely based on bullshit and that is the only thing he has said, in a game where you are supposed to find townies over scum.
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On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense?
Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong.
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On November 03 2015 00:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong.
Do you really think that is the scummiest thing he can find in this thread at that point?
Like really?
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On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right? Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia. Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.". Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something?
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On November 03 2015 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:17 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong. Do you really think that is the scummiest thing he can find in this thread at that point? Like really?
Well, it reminded me a bit of my case on you last game  (you similarly OMGUSing me both times)
Let's see what he comes up with now.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
Xat&rest- Xat's initial post set me off. Saying something like "this is a nightmare for scum" has two results (from writer POV):
1. It distances you from "scum".
2. It downplays scum.
1. Is NAI. 2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly). Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.
Now I already had a very real suspicion that you knew that this set up is not a "nightmare" for scum, as you have played resistance(/avalon) before (noted by you correctly associating my merlin comment with avalon). So that double begs the question why you felt the need to point out that mafia was "weak".
I also understand that there is no resolving this situation regardless of your alignment. We can't talk this shit out- since it my suspicion and your possibly-innocent post. I am going, however, going to be suspicious of you. Unfairly? Maybe. But we'll see how your day plays out. So far I don't really like how you've been soft-pushing my push on you. But that may be biased of me.
@HTS what is your opinion on this post?
What is the purpose of returning to the thread with this over-explanation when he already admitted that the line of questioning was a dead end.
@rayn, you felt that his push on xat was town motivated when it occurred initially. I agreed with you at that time since pushing a player to generate discussion is generally town-motivated. However, do you feel this explanation is legit?
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On November 03 2015 00:20 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:17 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong. Do you really think that is the scummiest thing he can find in this thread at that point? Like really? Well, it reminded me a bit of my case on you last game (you similarly OMGUSing me both times) Let's see what he comes up with now.
Again it is not OMGUS when i clearly point out why his case is scummy.
For you too:
"OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you."
which is literally here, as in the last game NOT doing.
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On November 02 2015 20:55 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie?
On November 02 2015 20:59 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 20:56 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:55 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 20:52 Superbia wrote:On November 02 2015 20:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Superbia FYI Xatalos has not played forum Resistance. ...That makes me slightly more suspicious rofl. But whatever, I have concluded that you are likely town, and that Xat may be town too. Partially due to me trusting your read a little, and partially because of how he's mentally (i.e. logically) handling my push. Actually Xat was town in the vanilla mafia game too right? The one in which he died n3 or whatever (I've half-followed it)? And where they lynched scum on d3 only? If so that gives him some town-points this game so far. Yeah I was town and got shot eventually. Why does that make me townie? Your posting style and activity level seems similar to that game. Mind you that I've read/skimmed maybe 7-8 pages, so I'm not confident enough to give you a lot of townie-points. Okay, that makes sense.
Alright, these questions are quite town. I know Rels argued TMI from Superbia. So at least I know to flag that argument reviewing Rels later...
The only question I'd pose to Superbia is asking him how he knows Xata isn't breaking meta but maybe he hasn't reached that point yet.
I'm not going to meta read Xata, largely because I'd be biased on that - the only games I've ever had with Xata (Carol and Assassination, both large normal) he's been scum and I've been town. I've never played with town Xatalos.
So far Xata is looking town...
Continuing...
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7815 Posts
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
In all honesty though, Xatalos in that game was more town aligned than you were. His argument wasn't too bad as other town members were reading him as town too. Enough that he was killed the night after you. Getting mad can be an alignment to either. Most of the time it's an alignment to being town, but the way you did your "anger" in this game is completely out of meta for your previous games especially since you came back instantly this time.
And HtS to answer your question earlier, it does seem like they town read each other most of the time. They kept town reading each other in the vanilla game until Xatalos started pointing fingers at some point, to then I assumed rayn got mad.
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On November 03 2015 00:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Not really, no. Because the read is purely based on bullshit and that is the only thing he has said, in a game where you are supposed to find townies over scum.
So based on this (bolded), we both agree the read is flawed. He used meta to scumread you.
We both agree it's the only thing Shockey has said of substance.
I put out my reasons why Shockey's read is wrong.
However, based on your use of the word "bullshit" I am interpreting this as you seeing his read on you as malicious/mafia intent. I did not think it was. So what are you seeing that I am not?
(Regardless I wouldn't be putting Shockey on my team as of now anyhow.)
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7815 Posts
However in this game, that buddying up can also be assumed to knowing they're both spies. The other reason I came up to that is how they both question Rels together. Rels and rayn first started off and then Xata jumped in afterwards.
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On November 03 2015 00:25 Half the Sky wrote:
However, based on your use of the word "bullshit" I am interpreting this as you seeing his read on you as malicious/mafia intent. I did not think it was. So what are you seeing that I am not?
Go read the game he is comparing my meta to here.
It's less than 5 pages. You should see what i am talking about.
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On November 03 2015 00:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:
In all honesty though, Xatalos in that game was more town aligned than you were.
Well that's not possibly true because both of our role PM's said vanilla town.
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7815 Posts
On November 03 2015 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:
In all honesty though, Xatalos in that game was more town aligned than you were. Well that's not possibly true because both of our role PM's said vanilla town.
Well obviously, but I'm stating it from the POV of a town player that just finished reading up until the point you got killed.
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On November 03 2015 00:33 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:
In all honesty though, Xatalos in that game was more town aligned than you were. Well that's not possibly true because both of our role PM's said vanilla town. Well obviously, but I'm stating it from the POV of a town player that just finished reading up until the point you got killed.
Well how does that have anything to do with anything?
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Alright i am off for dinner. Dunno if i get back before the deadline.
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Superbia/Xatalos
HtS
sicklucker/Artanis
Rels(pending)
kitaman
ShoCkeyy
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Who do you trust the most at this moment ShoCkeyy?
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On November 03 2015 00:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
Xat&rest- Xat's initial post set me off. Saying something like "this is a nightmare for scum" has two results (from writer POV):
1. It distances you from "scum".
2. It downplays scum.
1. Is NAI. 2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly). Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.
Now I already had a very real suspicion that you knew that this set up is not a "nightmare" for scum, as you have played resistance(/avalon) before (noted by you correctly associating my merlin comment with avalon). So that double begs the question why you felt the need to point out that mafia was "weak".
I also understand that there is no resolving this situation regardless of your alignment. We can't talk this shit out- since it my suspicion and your possibly-innocent post. I am going, however, going to be suspicious of you. Unfairly? Maybe. But we'll see how your day plays out. So far I don't really like how you've been soft-pushing my push on you. But that may be biased of me. @HTS what is your opinion on this post? What is the purpose of returning to the thread with this over-explanation when he already admitted that the line of questioning was a dead end. @rayn, you felt that his push on xat was town motivated when it occurred initially. I agreed with you at that time since pushing a player to generate discussion is generally town-motivated. However, do you feel this explanation is legit?
At Kita - I know at least one player (Rels) questioned him on his approach to Xata. So him clarifying it is perfectly reasonable in context. I personally had no issues with this post, in fact I liked it. First paragraph also explains his previous behaviour - it's logical and makes sense (talking about the merlin comments).
This followup is again, what I'd expect from a town Superbia.
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7815 Posts
On November 03 2015 00:40 kitaman27 wrote:
Who do you trust the most at this moment ShoCkeyy?
Mostly everyone is still null for me. The first team still hasn't even gone out yet.
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EPT
