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On July 16 2015 14:44 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:40 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:38 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:37 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
well that was also the first thought that entered my head when i read my role because i didnt look at role list beforehand, so its relevant nope What is nope? I don't see why anyone wants me to explain anything if they dont follow that same mantra. At least dont all be massive hypocrites. nope as in anyone can read the op, go look vt has investigator in the role, and make that post it's a ridiculous thing to townread someone for beyond maaaaaybe the very start of the game and an even more ridiculous thing to still be townreading someone for as your main reason i didn't realize that was what you were referring to -_- and i know i've already commented on this and frankly this "oh i thought that too!" crap always makes me roll my eyes His read isn't a great read, but he does make a point.
The flaw is that it was a 5 man scum team, and even if Oatsmaster thinks geript is blue, and even if geript was scumreading Damdred, that still doesn't really suggest that geript is a likely night kill.
I'm looking at Holyflare's case on ObiWanShinobi, and some of it makes a lot of sense, but I've never had much success reading ObiWanShinobi... And I've definitely seen ObiWanShinobi play seriously as town before, that's a horrible point. Furthermore, I am sure that ObiWanShinobi was suspicious of Holyflare at one point during Day 1 (early on, then reinforced by how Holyflare treated marvellosity early), but I don't know what he did with this read. The fact that Holyflare completely ignored it seems a bit strange though, even if the read was completely dropped for several days, I'd think that a truly unbiased Holyflare would have at least mentioned it.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Still not mafia trfel. Care to explain how your town view of me didn't align with this game? Everything you wrote in your case that i do as town i did before you even wrote it.
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On July 16 2015 14:48 rsoultin wrote:
oh, truffle, can you give me examples of bf deliberately acting dumb in his scum game while i look into ows for kicks and giggles? or at least remind me which game it was lol >< I didn't read the game.
It was his first game ever (I'd hope you could guess that..), that newbie mafia that cakepie hosted. Here you go.
All I know is what people said about it. It was referenced several times in Student Mafia 11.
And I can't 100% trust you, so I need to look at ObiWanShinobi for myself. You can look at boxerfred's filter yourself if you really want to. I'm not saying that it makes him scum, I'm just saying that townreading him for not knowing the number of scum left is really, really stupid. I don't see how to tell if he was being genuine or not.
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On July 16 2015 14:49 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:47 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:44 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:40 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:38 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:37 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
well that was also the first thought that entered my head when i read my role because i didnt look at role list beforehand, so its relevant nope What is nope? I don't see why anyone wants me to explain anything if they dont follow that same mantra. At least dont all be massive hypocrites. nope as in anyone can read the op, go look vt has investigator in the role, and make that post it's a ridiculous thing to townread someone for beyond maaaaaybe the very start of the game and an even more ridiculous thing to still be townreading someone for as your main reason i didn't realize that was what you were referring to -_- and i know i've already commented on this and frankly this "oh i thought that too!" crap always makes me roll my eyes frankly I think you are only refuting it because you do not want HF to be townread, the game is over with HF and mine mislynches. You can already see the game leaning that way as people slowly start consolidating their scum reads to me and hf out of nowhere. ^^ that's 100% it has nothing to do with anyone with a smattering of intelligence being able to read the op and construct a post like that, or the fact that seriously claiming vt is retarded anyway as a town player. nope ^^
why respond sarcastically to the part that isnt worth talking about? the latter is clearly happening. Are you intentionally ignoring it and ok with losing or mafia? Reminds me of himalaya where you were content to sit on your hands while the thread was stagnant because you were mafia. You aren't furthering any discussion by giving these sarcastic snide comments in every post.
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On July 16 2015 14:49 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:44 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:40 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:38 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:37 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
well that was also the first thought that entered my head when i read my role because i didnt look at role list beforehand, so its relevant nope What is nope? I don't see why anyone wants me to explain anything if they dont follow that same mantra. At least dont all be massive hypocrites. nope as in anyone can read the op, go look vt has investigator in the role, and make that post it's a ridiculous thing to townread someone for beyond maaaaaybe the very start of the game and an even more ridiculous thing to still be townreading someone for as your main reason i didn't realize that was what you were referring to -_- and i know i've already commented on this and frankly this "oh i thought that too!" crap always makes me roll my eyes His read isn't a great read, but he does make a point. The flaw is that it was a 5 man scum team, and even if Oatsmaster thinks geript is blue, and even if geript was scumreading Damdred, that still doesn't really suggest that geript is a likely night kill. I'm looking at Holyflare's case on ObiWanShinobi, and some of it makes a lot of sense, but I've never had much success reading ObiWanShinobi... And I've definitely seen ObiWanShinobi play seriously as town before, that's a horrible point. Furthermore, I am sure that ObiWanShinobi was suspicious of Holyflare at one point during Day 1 (early on, then reinforced by how Holyflare treated marvellosity early), but I don't know what he did with this read. The fact that Holyflare completely ignored it seems a bit strange though, even if the read was completely dropped for several days, I'd think that a truly unbiased Holyflare would have at least mentioned it.
ebh was saying his one amazing reason to townread hf is his entry post claiming vt ^^
oats trying to use that actually is rather towny. i don't disagree with that and it's part of why i've been townreading him from early on...lol even if i didn't think it was a good strategy
nnnhhh i'm going through ows' filter now. hold that thought
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Guess who forgets their reads and doesn't care about them trfel? ^^
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On July 16 2015 14:52 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:49 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:47 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:44 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:40 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:On July 16 2015 14:38 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:37 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
well that was also the first thought that entered my head when i read my role because i didnt look at role list beforehand, so its relevant nope What is nope? I don't see why anyone wants me to explain anything if they dont follow that same mantra. At least dont all be massive hypocrites. nope as in anyone can read the op, go look vt has investigator in the role, and make that post it's a ridiculous thing to townread someone for beyond maaaaaybe the very start of the game and an even more ridiculous thing to still be townreading someone for as your main reason i didn't realize that was what you were referring to -_- and i know i've already commented on this and frankly this "oh i thought that too!" crap always makes me roll my eyes frankly I think you are only refuting it because you do not want HF to be townread, the game is over with HF and mine mislynches. You can already see the game leaning that way as people slowly start consolidating their scum reads to me and hf out of nowhere. ^^ that's 100% it has nothing to do with anyone with a smattering of intelligence being able to read the op and construct a post like that, or the fact that seriously claiming vt is retarded anyway as a town player. nope ^^ why respond sarcastically to the part that isnt worth talking about? the latter is clearly happening. Are you intentionally ignoring it and ok with losing or mafia? Reminds me of himalaya where you were content to sit on your hands while the thread was stagnant because you were mafia. You aren't furthering any discussion by giving these sarcastic snide comments in every post.
cause that's entirely what i'm doing ^^
1. hf has been scumread or at least under suspicion practically all game - your point was wrong
2. i don't see a massive swing to scumread you for the "next mislynch" - your point is again, wrong
so what exactly do you want me to respond to? you're just distracting me by whining and trying to deflect off an objectively weak townread, especially considering we're talking about hf and not some scrub
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On July 16 2015 14:52 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:48 rsoultin wrote:
oh, truffle, can you give me examples of bf deliberately acting dumb in his scum game while i look into ows for kicks and giggles? or at least remind me which game it was lol >< I didn't read the game. It was his first game ever (I'd hope you could guess that..), that newbie mafia that cakepie hosted. Here you go. All I know is what people said about it. It was referenced several times in Student Mafia 11. And I can't 100% trust you, so I need to look at ObiWanShinobi for myself. You can look at boxerfred's filter yourself if you really want to. I'm not saying that it makes him scum, I'm just saying that townreading him for not knowing the number of scum left is really, really stupid. I don't see how to tell if he was being genuine or not.
lol i didn't even get through the first page before i caught your drift...thanks for pulling that up
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On July 16 2015 14:41 rsoultin wrote:you mentioned him a grand total of seven times in 40 pages of filter -_- mostly as part of "to look at" or "possible vig target" lists -_- thanks for the wild goose chase, though. always love that VA (and expert smurf hunter me says it's va) is probably mafia because he dislikes killing me, a jat shot is so shit in any game that it must be because jat was hinting at being blue and va likes hunting blues. Also VA keeps complaining about things that just aren't true anymore, i didn't shit fight with rsoultin but he returns to say that we were and afk's, his nk stuff that he does as town was far too focused on one player when i think he's usually much more logical. He's pretty off base.
Your ctrl f skills are poor.
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On July 16 2015 13:23 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 13:20 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 13:00 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin I understand you think you've done something and keep complaining to people about ruxxar being mafia but he is your only push this entire game since day 1. I would appreciate if you looked elsewhere since I do not think you get so focused on just one player as town ever. You have skirted around this obi thing for a good while and you don't need to look at his filter to comment on my posts or see his posts at all. ?? i have commented on obi quite a bit this game? just as i brought damdy to people's attention, and i know you haven't forgotten my pushing you, milo or scott. it's certainly irritating that you keep saying i'm not doing things when i have been...i brought scott to your attention multiple times before you started pushing him yourself, and yeah, i was wrong, but saying i'm not doing anything is blatantly false but tbh i'm actually still not paying attention to this game fully...i already mentioned that not pushing you when you were up for lynch was strange and ows' excuse even stranger ^ this is why i'm really certain you're not actually reading my posts, btw i'll take a look at the clarity thing...lol eventually >< which means before the end of the night. as for his townreads based on activity, i agree that for ruxx and myself that's nai...ruxx was plenty active last scumgame and anyone who has seen one of my scumgames knows i can post just as much as a scum hf xP in all honesty, if we were going by activity levels, i probably have a lower activity/pg ratio than almost any of my games as either alignment this game -shrugs- though again, it's not something i keep close enough track of to know for sure Yes yes ok, you're a good player. This wasn't the answer I'm looking for though it's so wishy washy and doesn't say anything about obi. I KNOW his reads based on activity mean nothing but why do you tell me what i already know instead of what it means foefor obi? I mean... You just don't seem inquisitive and it's scummy and i can't get past it.
You just worded so well why i scumread hts in the past. Being in lylo with u or rsoul is not something i wanna do.
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On July 16 2015 14:52 Holyflare wrote:
Still not mafia trfel. Care to explain how your town view of me didn't align with this game? Everything you wrote in your case that i do as town i did before you even wrote it. Holyflare, your scum game is more towny than my town game. Your reads as scum are objectively better than my reads as town (and probably more accurate, too, with bussing).
I did not see your response to my case on you. I saw you dismiss it as "I get angry at people for being stupid as town", which is an unsupported statement of no real use. Furthermore, my case wasn't really a case at all; it was reasons without much explanation, and without support. My intention was to give people the ability to look at the things I mentioned, look at the meta, and see what I was trying to convey. Not to convince, but to try and get people to evaluate for themselves.
In the past, I've read you more based on attitude. I don't feel like reading you based on read accuracy, or agreeing with me, works out at all (because I'm not good enough to do so, and you're too good).
In Linux Mini Mafia, you were playing well, but there were a few inconsistencies. Towards the end of the day, especially, (when it was looking bad for mafia), I felt like your play was slipping a bit. You seemed more willing to just throw random scumreads at a wider variety of people, and you had some argument with Damdred that didn't make sense from a town perspective.
Contrast this with Guardians of the Galaxy Mafia. You had an early scumread on Alakaslam, and you had good reasons for this read. You got into an argument with Alakaslam in which you were "winning". However, you soon re-evaluated and decided to give Alakaslam more time, and that even though your arguments were logically sound, didn't mean that Alakaslam definitely was mafia. And you didn't carry on the argument for long enough to disrupt the game.
In this game, your early argument with rsoultin and me didn't serve much purpose. Your wording was inconsistent, and most importantly, I didn't feel like you were arguing to find out information* or to convince people to lynch your scumread, but simply for the purpose of arguing and logically "winning" the argument. And that doesn't fit from a town perspective, at all. From what I've seen from your play, your town play is more focused, willing to work with people, and less often getting into pointless arguments. But as scum, you're willing to yell at people and disrupt the thread when there isn't much of a point to it.
Furthermore, the several instances of martyring feel out of place. I have come to expect basically maximum effort all of the time from you. Notably, the martyring you did at the start of the day felt off. You seemed to be putting in effort and were reasonable at the end of the night, and up until the flip. Then at the start of the day, you apparently got extremely upset and left the thread. To me, it seemed like the sudden change was caused by LightningStrike asking people to lynch you, which seems really, really unlikely. First because, confirmed town or no, I don't expect you (being one of the very best players on the site) to be scared of a push from LightningStrike (no offense to LightningStrike, but he's still relatively new compared to Holyflare). Second, because LightningStrike had already said that his plan was for you to die in the night or to be lynched the next day.
That was way longer than I expected, but yeah. If there are things I am missing, or things I am wrong about, please let me know. Otherwise, I intend to read ObiWanShinobi's filter, and then re-evaluate from there.
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Regarding my newbie game: yep i said in that that im new, used that for my scum play. However it should bei obvious that im not claiming to misunderstand or Not knowing but instead simply wasnt. Reading too well.
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Sorry, I'm really confused, what's with all the XEliteBlueHunter69X talk all of a sudden?
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On July 16 2015 15:03 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 14:41 rsoultin wrote:On July 16 2015 14:38 Holyflare wrote:
I literally told you i said it. you mentioned him a grand total of seven times in 40 pages of filter -_- mostly as part of "to look at" or "possible vig target" lists -_- thanks for the wild goose chase, though. always love that Show nested quote +VA (and expert smurf hunter me says it's va) is probably mafia because he dislikes killing me, a jat shot is so shit in any game that it must be because jat was hinting at being blue and va likes hunting blues. Also VA keeps complaining about things that just aren't true anymore, i didn't shit fight with rsoultin but he returns to say that we were and afk's, his nk stuff that he does as town was far too focused on one player when i think he's usually much more logical. He's pretty off base. Your ctrl f skills are poor.
eh yeah i left off the va ctrl+f cause that turned up every little thing
this still isn't want i'm talking about at all though @.@
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I mean if you really want to hammer on nightkills then you should bring up that I had palmar as town day 1 for sure when nobody else really did, not sure why a jat hit would implicate me or anything else. as for the blue hunting, lol in genereal
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Ok so how was my push on you and argument with rsoultin not trying to push you as a scum read? I was quite clearly pointing out inconsistencies from your filter and then when you made the case on LS i used those inconsistencies to make a good case on you. Rsoultin got in the way and if you actually look at the argument in my filter it's really stupid and it's me just repeating that you are inconsistent and not explaining anything.
You state alakaslam as an example of my whim to drop a scum read, how has that not applied to my read on you that mysteriously disappeared before you made that post on me? I think it's exactly the same. Maybe you are too tunelled to read that but i did it several times for other players too.
Me being angry means nothing, I'll tell you now. Extenuating circumstances aside i was getting continually fed up with making cases and trying to be reasonable and getting back in the game and then just getting shut down (by confirmed townies no less) for.... 0 reasons? It annoyed me and piled on top of already shitness and i just wanted to die so people would actually listen for a change. My obi read is good, his defences of people aren't natural and now he can't explain any of his reads.
You say my scum game is townier than your town game so why on earth would i play so shit as mafia when my reign woild be on the line. Answer is i wouldn't.
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okay so like the only real point i like is the one i already agreed on, regarding ows, which is just essentially that he reacted oddly to the lynch like he actually thought your scummates would try to bail you out if you just flitted off
what exactly is different between town!ows omgusing and scum!ows?
like i think i even remember the newbie he's talking about because if i'm recalling it correctly, it was the one i was coaching the scum team in lol >< even if it wasn't, you did say that obi omgus' in that one; i remember that distinctly
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Like I've repeated for the 5th time. Omgus is not part of the obi case. The newer obi post i made is great too since it's a giant collection of proof.
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On July 16 2015 15:15 Holyflare wrote:
Ok so how was my push on you and argument with rsoultin not trying to push you as a scum read? I was quite clearly pointing out inconsistencies from your filter and then when you made the case on LS i used those inconsistencies to make a good case on you. Rsoultin got in the way and if you actually look at the argument in my filter it's really stupid and it's me just repeating that you are inconsistent and not explaining anything.
You state alakaslam as an example of my whim to drop a scum read, how has that not applied to my read on you that mysteriously disappeared before you made that post on me? I think it's exactly the same. Maybe you are too tunelled to read that but i did it several times for other players too.
Me being angry means nothing, I'll tell you now. Extenuating circumstances aside i was getting continually fed up with making cases and trying to be reasonable and getting back in the game and then just getting shut down (by confirmed townies no less) for.... 0 reasons? It annoyed me and piled on top of already shitness and i just wanted to die so people would actually listen for a change. My obi read is good, his defences of people aren't natural and now he can't explain any of his reads.
You say my scum game is townier than your town game so why on earth would i play so shit as mafia when my reign woild be on the line. Answer is i wouldn't. Pointing out inconsistencies and pushing something aren't the same.
You provided tons and tons of examples of inconsistencies, more than you needed to; townies reading the thread would get the point, Trfel's posting has inconsistencies. It would be more useful to actually talk to people about why I am scum, or go find different reasons. Instead, you in one post acknowledged that rsoultin would never be persuaded to vote for me, and in the next post were talking to her. You cared to try and get Breshke's vote when he was there, but ignored boxerfred when he showed up.
Of course you can drop scumreads as mafia. My point is that with Alakaslam, you did it when you realized it wasn't going anywhere. You could tell your early push on me (at least, with those methods) wasn't going anywhere for quite some time, especially since you were pushing it when no one but really me and rsoultin were in the thread.
I think that maybe I agree, and that ObiWanShinobi is kind of scummy. However, he referenced his scumread of you several times, and you left them all out of your case. His play is a bit disjointed, but in a game with this many players and posts, that seems somewhat understandable?
Someone else please tell me if I'm making sense, or if I'm just being stupid?
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Okay, yeah, ObiWanShinobi does seem to talk about a bunch of different reads at different times, and doesn't really flow smoothly between them.
I'll check some meta, but if someone can show that this strongly indicates that ObiWanShinobi is scum, that would be good to know. Because while it is scummy, I don't find it convincing enough by itself.
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EPT
