EPTKelsierSC (1): Alakaslam
Alakaslam (1): Palmer,
Palmer (2):: Holyflare, Grackaroni
Not Voting (1): , KelsierSC
Currently Palmer is set to be lynched.
Day 3 ends at Friday, Oct 17 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (in )
Voting is Mandatory
Fantasy Football (FFL) Mini - Page 186
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geript
10024 Posts
KelsierSC (1): Alakaslam Alakaslam (1): Palmer, Palmer (2):: Holyflare, Grackaroni Not Voting (1): , KelsierSC Currently Palmer is set to be lynched. Day 3 ends at Friday, Oct 17 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ) Voting is Mandatory | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Night 4 <insert flavor here> Palmer the Third Party Poisoner has been lynched KelsierSC the Mafia Goon has been MODKILLED Town Wins! FATALITY. + Show Spoiler + Vote Count: KelsierSC (1): Alakaslam Alakaslam (1): Palmer, Grackaroni Palmer (2):: Holyflare, Grackaroni Not Voting (1): , KelsierSC Currently Palmer is set to be lynched. Day 3 ends at Friday, Oct 17 12:00am EDT (GMT-04:00) (in 0m 0s) Voting is Mandatory | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
KelsierSC the Rodger Goodell (mafia goon) has been modkilled Palmer the TMz (poisoner) has been lynched I'll post obs and stuff in 2 shakes. Spreadsheet Obs Deck Mafia QT | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On October 17 2014 13:27 Grackaroni wrote: We did it HF! we're so good at this game <3 schweet | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Obs QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/tkuGGTNhXGth | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
the tunnel liam ops | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
Overall setup, I should have included a mason, a named VT and a miller as a possibility in the setup. The Vig should've also only had 1 shot that got refunded on being roleblocked; that was a mistake on my part. I also think that I should've included named VT and a miller to balance it out a bit better. Alternatively, I could've nerfed Cop to down to Parity Cop. Other than that, Poisoner probably should've been either Serial Killer OR had the choice of NK immune or check as town. For the most part though, I think the setup was fine albeit I would guess 60% town favored. Day 1: The main thing that I remember about this day is how many really good, really interesting points that were completely ignored. A few players (Oats and maybe Hopeless or Holyflare) brought up some interested points on how Palmer was playing. While making some good points, he was seemingly exceptionally disinterested. While the RNG was a bit silly and lucky, Blazinghand brought up a really good point on how odd it was as to how ObviousOne reacted to the RNG. It was really weird and scummy and he brought it up multiple times and it was glossed over. As best I can recall, one thing that I found a bit telling was how many people were fine lynching ObviousOne but wanted to look elsewhere. If ObviousOne is town, where are the people seriously pushing this lynch because it generally would be far easier. Then when he flipped scum, there were a bunch of people on his wagon that ended up in the right place despite having stronger reads elsewhere which is pretty odd for a town in some regards. I remember thinking that the people I would've been interested in lynching were (in no particular order): Damdred, ObviousOne, KelsierSC, ObiWanShinobi and to a lesser extent StorrZerg and Hopeless. KelsierSC was really active, but there wasn't any reason to find him towny in any regard; I found it odd how many people town read him for absolutely no reason. Hopeless to me looked like someone who was just skating by. Liancourt looked really scummy early on (I forget why) but progressively got better imo despite from what I recall being exceptionally wrong. Batsnacks was super towny, but unfortunately wasn't pushing discussion in any meaningful or useful way. Alakaslam was super town meta Slam, but honestly man (you know I enjoy playing with you) I'd love to see you up your effectiveness; he had some great interesting and good points dispersed but it was mostly just gifs, hijoles, chupazis and filler. Damdred; I'm really bad at reading, but I don't understand how anyone was reading him town in any way; I don't remember any interesting or good points he brought up and I don't remember him pushing in any effective way. Grackaroni I remember thinking was really towny at some point, but it undulated; much like Damdred I don't remember any interesting or good points he brought up. I remember thinking that Oats had a number of really good interesting points that got glossed over and that I would think that he's probably town (at least for day 1). ObiWanShinobi was really all over the place from what I recall but not in any obviously towny way. StorrZerg felt really odd to me because it felt like his case when he came back (on liancourt) was really bad and it felt really forced. Night 1: I think the discussion over who was trying to push the lynch off of Obvious One was really unproductive. There was a bunch of focus on ObiWanShinobi and very little on any other target. A bunch of people jumped on the ObiWanShinobi train which is at least a minor indicator that he might be town (as bussing would make the game exceptionally tough). That is at least something to consider. I do think that when Holyflare reassessed things toward the end of the night he made some really good points (which minimal reasoning attached) that got glossed over again in lieu of the "lynch OWS" train. There were a few very solid "blue" actions and some really bad ones. First off, Grack's vigilante shot was bad. Oats wasn't super towny, but there were far, far scummier people to shoot and far larger question marks that would help solve things. I feel like this was a "I hope I get lucky" shot instead of a well thought out one. Considering how Hopeless tried to always be on the OO lynch train without pushing it and while trying to push other options without really looking to, I think he 100% was the right shot. Palmer's choice to poison Batsnacks was perfect IMO; he's exceptionally unlikely to either be lynched or NK'd and he's almost certainly town (which is what he needed to kill after a mafia lynch). Holyflare roleblocked Hopeless1der; it's a bit of a crapshoot who to RB when you can't block Scum KP, but I think Palmer, Hopeless, Kelsier and OWS are solid options. OWS made a reasonable choice in checking Hopeless; I actually think Palmer is a much better check here considering how hard he can be to lynch and how hard he is to read. The downside is that he's far more likely to be mafia shot if he's not mafia. The mafia framed Liancourt which was ok; there had been enough "scum" thrown his way and he's new here that checking him is reasonable. Palmer was the mafia KP target which is maybe ok; there's a reasonable shot that he's town but I think it's a bad choice. Blazinghand is going to be hard to lynch this game considering the RNG push so if you want to medic dodge, I think it's far better to medic dodge by shooting HF. HF is really hard to lynch as any alignment; he's a really solid player and he's actually starting to put the pieces together correctly the more the night went on. As to Holyflare claiming Vig in order to protect BH, that's not a play any reasonably sane mafia team would ever actually consider. Additionally, no sane medic should ever consider this as a reason not to protect BH or to protect HF over BH. Day 2. First off, mafia should realize that the setup has a poisoner. Palmer didn't claim to be shot so he's not vigilante and considering how day 1 went it's highly unlikely that he got medic saved. So just by looking at and understanding the roles they got it's quite reasonable to deduce that the setup is Cop+Vig and maybe a third role which is most likely roleblocker (or mason or named VT if they were in the setup). Next up, Grack claimed his shot early on which is good. When Grack claimed his shot and there was no vet hit claim, town should've been thinking Grack could be mafia OR 3P Poisoner fakeclaiming (which would be a fantastic play). It's a good idea to pressure him here to make sure he's town. If he's town, then the setup likely includes either a medic or a Poisoner. It's reasonable play if Grack is obviously town for the medic to come out and out their save as a "green check" since that guy will 100% die that night if he doesn't and by doing so he saves the life of someone who's likely leading town in the right direction. It's fine to not out as well; just something to consider. The interesting thing I noted about day 2 was how OWS started the day. How OWS approached Hopeless on D2 (no particularly strong read on him previously, refuses to vote otherwise, "rollercoaster of emotions," gets in a huge shit fight with him, is completely unreasonable and treats him as if he knows he's mafia) practically outed himself as cop. I kinda think HF picked up on this but I'm not sure. OWS 100% should have outed as cop with a red check. While OWS pushed Hopeless, he did so in a completely ineffectual manner which actually made OWS look exceptionally scummy. Honestly, both looked really bad coming out of it. The reasons why he should out are pretty simple: 1 you shouldn't ever die with a pocket red check as cop. 2 It would help clear up OWS as town while lynching a mafia. 3 It prevents having to explain why you're claiming when mid-late in the day when wagons are neck and neck. 4 From the early day, it's almost certain that it's going to be a close set of wagons mainly between Hopeless and OWS. 5 Claiming and taking a bullet is perfectly fine especially when both BH and HF are very likely to be town. 6 If there is a medic, then it's almost assuredly Grack who is mafia and he likely won't be lynched without a red check. Kelsier looked far worse imo because he completely refused to think about any points against Hopeless. This type of intentional denseness can come from town but when joined with how he's nominally willing to vote Hopeless and how he was nominally willing to lynch OO but didn't really push any good points on OWS or anyone else the whole game, then that was one of the reasons I thought he was obvious. DarthPunk ironically had OWS and Kelsier as both scum with maybe Hopeless or if not then StorrZerg as his mafia reads at this point. I feel like I can sum up the entirety of day 2 by saying: Holyflare making lots of very good points on Kelsier and Hopeless, people making mediocre to awful points on other people (including Damdred, OWS and liancourt), and nobody fucking listening or evaluating what anybody else said. General review, BH don't be a baddy and not listen to other people's points. HF same to you but at least you were right; also, it would help others to explain why you thought OWS might be town. Batsnacks throws around his vote and voice in what feels like the most ineffective manner ever; obviously town, but not helping. Palmer felt completely MIA; I think he made ~10 posts and most of his good/interesting points were completely gone. That's a reasonable reason to suspect him as 3P who took a hit. Damdred felt like he was trying (so maybe he's town) but I honestly couldn't tell. Both Storrzerg and liancourt looked really odd; they were both really wrong, but considering they both threw away their votes they're probably town considering the flip. Neither would be an awful cop check though. Night 2: Kelsier looks absolutely terrible if you review his filter especially his day 2 posts in context. He's the perfect vigilante shot and/or cop check. Especially so because he looks like he'd be really hard to lynch. OWS initially sent in a check on HolyFlare which honestly is terrible. I understand his reasoning being afraid of the double bus, but if HF is alive on D4 he should almost 100% be autolynched for it. He's a great scum player; he's a solid town player; he's led a lynch on mafia that was surprisingly tough to push through and helped push the day 1 lynch on mafia. If he's alive on D3, he's either claiming Vet (which is almost certainly false) or he's mafia. Considering how he assumed he was the N1 KP target, he might be trying to setup for a 3P late game play. Unlikely but possible. After this point, I think it was mostly town fucking up their good reads for no reason. Obi was a great N3 poison and an awful KP considering there's Holyflare alive and Grack (confirmed vig) alive. I think the real problem with the night kills is that they were chosen quite poorly and that screwed up Palmer more than anything else. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
thanks for the gr9 hosting | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
I figured KSC was really obvious at endgame because of Grack's case, and idk where the liancourt shot came from especially when he had such a strong case to begin with. Yuck. Oh well, ggwp town. We derd it. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On October 17 2014 13:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah, I had a feeling that my HF check was going to be awful. I got really lucky that I turned it into something useful because of the missing KP, which meant that Palmar had to be poisoner anyway. I figured KSC was really obvious at endgame because of Grack's case, and idk where the liancourt shot came from especially when he had such a strong case to begin with. Yuck. Oh well, ggwp town. We derd it. i cannot honestly believe you did not check kelsier when i asked you to -.- | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On October 17 2014 13:38 Damdred wrote: and by palmar in that first thing i meant how HF switched back to me and sealed my fate i know bro i really didn't want to, it was like that day all my previous gameplay had disappeared and i forgot all my reads =/ | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
is 44 pages of filter some kind of record? | ||
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