TL Mafia LXIV: A Game of Intrigue

On January 11 2014 02:58 Blazinghand wrote:
what if i'm vt

On January 11 2014 03:25 Xatalos wrote:
By the way, I've never played in a PM game as scum (only in a semi-PM game as town). Aren't PM's a pretty big advantage for town since it's a pain to fabricate PM's?

On January 11 2014 17:44 yamato77 wrote:
Why do you think gumshoe is town?

On January 11 2014 17:45 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'm supporting DocH because I like the way he's approached the game so far. While it's true that he hasn't discussed his reads or anything yet, I still feel it's relatively early and he's gonna have to if he hopes to ACTUALLY be elected for obvious reasons. If I don't like what he has to say then, I'm free to change my vote as far as I know. Until then, I'm picking up what he's laying down and can get behind him as mayor.

I think a mafia mayor will go with some sort of platform that seems safe, bank on their veteran status if they have it, promise good scumhunting and then not follow through. Waste the actual benefits of the position itself.

I can promise you that viewpoint is not connected to my alignment in any way.

On January 11 2014 09:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Why should we policy lynch a player day 1 just because you alone have a hard time dealing with them being in the game? If this was your intention, did you mention it before the beginning? I would say that this is an attempt to make the thread discussion worthless but you're not dumb enough to think that the town is going to be on board with that lynch, or that in the 48 hours that pass from now the discussion will still be seriously centered around a lynch on kush. So you might as well say now exactly what you're getting at - if what you're getting at is that no matter what happens at the end of this day, you would still lynch kush regardless, then whoever is elected should lynch you immediately.

On January 11 2014 18:19 VisceraEyes wrote:

The bolded is patently false. There's nothing wrong with discussing reads in PMs with others. It becomes a problem if the conclusions you draw never see the thread and you act on them, but the act itself isn't anti-town in the slightest.

Rayn I really hope you're just like drunk or something. What do you expect people to do in PMs if not discuss reads?

On January 11 2014 18:19 yamato77 wrote:

If Moc does not stop trolling, we will kill him. If he's town and doing this, he knows this.

If he doesn't want to play the game, he should be obliged.

On January 11 2014 18:37 VisceraEyes wrote:

If you're so confident in your ability to lynch scum, why not run yourself? Plenty of people are well aware of your skill, if I think you're on the right track finding mafia I could be convinced to vote for you if you intended to actually run. Why do you think Yamato should be mayor just because he'll lynch who you tell him to on D1?

On January 11 2014 18:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
But yeah, feel free to take the scummy, lazy route. That's what I'm doing. *shrug*

On January 11 2014 19:21 Mocsta wrote:

Thats how we all feel about your play, each and every game.

On January 11 2014 22:09 Aquanim wrote:

D'you reckon you can explain this to me? That long post of his looks like it was written pregame, and therefore doesn't tell me much regarding his alignment. He's also expressed a desire to talk with people (specifically VE) which isn't the most intuitive thing I'd expect a scum smurf to do.

If he thinks that long post is sufficient contribution for the day I'll agree with you that he's likely scum - but I don't see any reason to believe yet that there won't be more material forthcoming from him.

Is there anything else making you lean scum on him? Convince me.

His posts so far have simply been long winded and relatively devoid of substance. They certainly have been written well, but often they do not carry a point that is worth the 300 words it is accompanied with.

On January 11 2014 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

His post says Mig and marv are good players. So is DrH, but not as good as Mig or marv.
DrH writes posts with many words.
PM me and let's discuss reads, i won't do that in thread.

On January 12 2014 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Rayn grasping its kinda weird...didn't Doc post a log between he and Xata? Or am I misremembering?

On January 12 2014 04:04 Xatalos wrote:


What's this about? We've exchanged several PM's already. You pretty much avoided answering anything though...... You refused to talk about your reads or your policy. And now you just forgot? How is that even possible?

On January 12 2014 07:46 Blazinghand wrote:


ok maybe the mass DrH PM wasn't PERFECT but if people hadn't immediately claimed it in thread I might have gotten some results. it was wroth a try. let me get my mojo going, i'll prove myself!! !

On January 12 2014 03:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

I don't think so at all. You have four or five people listed, you only barely called one of them scum, you're not really asking questions of any of them. If I was on that list I wouldn't feel any need to respond to anything Xatalos said. He talks about suchdoges suspicious behavior then says it's more likely town than scum so what is he even getting at? I wish people would stop posting lists like that, they're the worst posts ever.

On January 12 2014 08:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

what do you mean why

On January 12 2014 08:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

i don't like you to be honest i've never hated anyone in a game more than i hate you but i think you're town, i'm being petty

On January 12 2014 18:22 Aquanim wrote:

Well for starters I'd appreciate it if you say where I "called people out for making general statements". I remember calling JAT out for "having no commitments regarding any reads at all in his entire filter" which is not at all the same thing.

Also, everybody makes some general statements, including me. I've also made some not-general statements. What exactly is your point?

I also can't help but notice that you haven't really answered my question. Would you care to correct that?

<VisceraEyes> I don't really like it - his problem with Obvious is something obvious, and his problem with justanothertownie is that he's acting like justanother townie. And he complains about lurkers.
<VisceraEyes> But what I really don't like about it is that he later asks me what I think of it...as if I should already be aware of his stance on justanothertownie, when he states quite literally that those reads are about as firm as his null read of someone else.

On January 12 2014 19:00 yamato77 wrote:
Since I won't be here after this point, I feel confident placing the lynch in Rayn's hands.

On January 12 2014 19:05 Aquanim wrote:

Well. I gave my problems with Captain Obvious the thread space they deserved, which was about a sentence. It's not like I'm screaming for a policy lynch of him - just gave my opinion of him.

And why shouldn't VE be aware of my stance on justanothertownie? The conclusion of my clash with JAT is literally on the same page as where I asked him that question. Is he not reading the thread or something?

For that matter, why shouldn't I ask VE for his opinion on a read I'm pushing?

I question the purpose of VE raising any of those points.

On January 12 2014 19:55 Aquanim wrote:

Talked with marv and mocsta in PMs and I'm confident they're thinking about the game, hoping someone else who actually wants to deal with suchdoge in PMs will read him, have a slight townread on WoS (and he's pushing suchdoge, anyway, so your characterisation is inaccurate here), and I don't like Koshi's play so far either but I'll get to him later.

If I tried to push eight lurkers at once I wouldn't get anywhere. By pushing JAT alone I've drawn reactions from him and others and moved the thread forward.

(Before you ask, I'm not telling you everything I've learned from pushing JAT. Deal with it.)

You still haven't explained why you think VE's town.

On January 12 2014 20:03 Aquanim wrote:

I don't trust your reads enough to take your word for it. If you won't show me your evidence, you're not going to convince me. Not showing me your evidence is your prerogative, I suppose, but you're hardly going to convince me to change my mind on your say-so.

On January 12 2014 20:06 Aquanim wrote:

I'm not asking you to take my word for my reads on Marv and Mocsta. If you're unwilling to share your conversation with VE, then say so and stop wasting my time.

On January 13 2014 00:34 Xatalos wrote:


Reads can change over time. What do you think of our debacle?

On January 13 2014 05:33 Coagulation wrote:
rayn you seem like your just echoing thread sentiment. do you think scum didnt attempt to run for mayor??

On January 13 2014 05:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
What's he saying then? That's what it looks or seems like he's saying.

On January 13 2014 05:47 Coagulation wrote:
lol wow thats pretty scummy rayn. I would think hashing out if mayor is trustworthy or not is pretty fucking high up there on the shit town needs to do list.

On January 13 2014 05:55 Captain Obvious wrote:
So we're supposed to figure out alignment through pms alone Rayn?

On January 13 2014 05:59 Captain Obvious wrote:


What do you think I'm doing right now?

On January 13 2014 06:05 Captain Obvious wrote:


Very funny. So rather than be happy I'm doing stuff to discern alignments, you're just gonna whine and bitch that I didn't do it early enough? How very pro-town of you.

On January 13 2014 06:10 Captain Obvious wrote:


I'm scum for trying to find the alignments of people? Or because I didn't start early enough according to you?

On January 13 2014 06:11 suchdoge wrote:
Also even more important is how the explanation changed after Xatalos was pressured.

Xatalos claimed that he meant "since the beginning of day 1" as his excuse for the PMs when pressured, when that was clearly not what he tried to suggest in his post moments before that. It seems pretty obvious that he got caught in a lie and realised he got caught in a lie and back pedaled unsuccessfully. If he was town and actually had proper PMs the stuff he posted would have looked very different and the explanation would not have been inconsistent (or indicative of him trying to simply pretend like he was doing something to drop suspicion)

On January 13 2014 06:38 suchdoge wrote:


Wanna Skype Coag?

I can't send you a message, my PM cap has been reached.

Skype: suchdogemlg420

On January 13 2014 07:05 marvellosity wrote:
for reference

Date: 1/13/14 04:55
Are you seriously considering lynching me? Based on what? That I've been unsure about some reads (like Koshi)?

Otherwise you've mentioned Derrida and suchdoge. What do you think of them now? Do you have other suspects? What do you think of VE/Koshi?

I'm having a hard time voting for you though, seeing that we disagree on quite a bit and apparently you even think I'm scum. I dunno why rayn would prefer you as Mayor.

Also what do you mean with this?

"Apparently even Day will end early on mayoral election today, so please keep your votes back until later in the day, shortening day 1 would be madness."

On January 13 2014 07:20 justanothertownie wrote:

How did you conclude this?

On January 13 2014 07:31 Captain Obvious wrote:


I don't respond to mass pms that ask 5 million questions like yours. Plenty of people can verify that I do respond to PMs that don't suck. And I am most certainly trying, but it's rather hard to when people would rather whine than discuss...

On January 13 2014 07:37 thrawn2112 wrote:
very underwhelming post from mig imo

On January 13 2014 07:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Feeling Xat also. His actions don't really line up with the fact that he seemed to think my PM exchange with him was scummy, he didn't commit to that criticism and people who throw out criticisms and call outs without tying it into a strong read or a goal are usually trying to pass themselves off as contributing. The timing of his call out was way late too, if he thought I was dodging his questions and obscuring information - why didn't he say so sooner? It's obvious from the PM logs as well that I wasn't - so it's a forced criticism. Then he backs off and says it doesn't tell much except that I wouldn't be a great mayor, but he chooses not to mention that at the end of his call out in the first place - until it was obvious that nobody would think I might be scum from it. Reacting to town sentiment instead of freely expressing his own opinions? Maybe

On January 13 2014 07:51 Captain Obvious wrote:


You should know, I did PM you about VE. However, your answer was pretty much "he's town, not gonna say why though"...

As for my preferred lynch: WaveofShadow. Check his filter in Witchcraft and compare it to this game. The difference is pretty damn obvious. In this game his posts just scream mafia.

Can anybody else report that VE actually mentioned these reads on Mocsta or Marv to them, and that he actually tried to convince them?

On January 13 2014 08:26 Alakaslam wrote:

Mocsta.

Yes.

On January 13 2014 09:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Slam is def town

On January 13 2014 09:25 Coagulation wrote:
I have 100 big brother bucks im thinking of investing.

On January 13 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Can give you thrawn and yamato if you want too.

On January 13 2014 19:04 Mocsta wrote:
The problem I have with Aquanim is he is suspicious to me (at times) in a "dont wear pants on head type of way"; nothing has struck me as promoting scum agenda.

On January 13 2014 19:33 justanothertownie wrote:

For example?

On January 12 2014 22:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Rayn you attempted to contact me last night and then disappeared. I wouldn't mind knowing what it was exactly you wanted to discuss.

On January 13 2014 20:27 marvellosity wrote:
That looks more like a misunderstanding where you went quiet for several minutes because you were reading his case and stuff, and he went to bed as you were silent

On January 13 2014 22:40 Mocsta wrote:

Vig!

On January 14 2014 01:19 LSB Banking wrote:
so I'm on page 55 now after a crapton of reading and I need a pause. I'm up for light chat if anyone wants to, either in here, in pm's or whatever else. I could log into irc for example.

On January 14 2014 02:49 marvellosity wrote:
That 2nd quote I really dislike. I hate the "I don't like this direction at the moment"

He keeps shading rayn without backup and he's unhappy that I'm finally running for mayor? He also defended Xatalos terribly. I dunno. Why does Wave not think Derrida is mafia? What possible reason does he have to think this other than other people have called Derrida mafia?

On January 14 2014 03:20 VayneAuthority wrote:
he is a lynch target here so I don't see how it's a bad example. You thought his posts were super scummy and he wasn't. I think you are reading him wrong similarly here.

On January 14 2014 04:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Note to self: KST 04:50

On January 14 2014 05:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Anyone who thinks they should vig or try to lynch me or hopeless1 should talk to marv. Marv will tell you he knows we're town. Unless he's trying to lynch me for the lols, but that's pretty unlikely. Marv plays to win. Usually.

On January 14 2014 05:26 suchdoge wrote:


while I agree with you that Blazinghand and Hopeless1der have proved themselves two of the worst players on the forum through this game and I would wholeheartedly agree with killing them both just so that they'd stop posting there are better players to go after.

On January 14 2014 07:49 Koshi wrote:
Are we sure rayn? That's kinda drastic. Also. VE & WoS not scum anymore?

On January 14 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:
Unsurprisingly there are logs and they are long enough that they can;t have been cooked up quickly.

now we move on before i get very irritated

On January 14 2014 07:53 marvellosity wrote:
you know exactly the reason rayn.

On January 14 2014 10:11 suchdoge wrote:


because of the modposts.

If you quote the mod's name and there's any way to look up a QT based on the mod's name then you can find the scum QT.

I don't know if it's actually possible but given that the name is rare enough, it's a legitimate concern.

There are things we can say in hindsight but none of that matters anymore.

On January 14 2014 10:36 Mig wrote:
marv had derrida pinned perfectly from 1 post haha, pretty solid job

On January 14 2014 10:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

You call me scum every game and every game you're wrong.

On January 14 2014 10:54 marvellosity wrote:
rayn and i had several awesome irc moments actually :D

On January 14 2014 10:55 Koshi wrote:
Cuz rayn awesome. I didnt have pc first day but knew if I could be in irc with rayn I had my free townread.

On January 14 2014 10:57 Koshi wrote:

u werent mad enough after modkills.

On January 14 2014 11:07 Mig wrote:
rayn you are mad every game

On January 12 2014 01:00 kushm4sta wrote:
The thing that sucks about making rayn mayor is he is really bad at d1. He is best at analyzing the consistency in someone's reads, but you can't really do that yet d1.

On January 09 2014 03:30 kushm4sta wrote:
rayn why do i have to read the thread when i can just read some of your excellent posts instead and get summary + analysis