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I just had a curious thought and am wondering what others may think of it. I know of a statistic somewhere that monkeys at 2 years old are roughly as intelligent as babies at 2 years old. Then as they get older, an adult monkey ends up having an IQ of only around 60, relative to a human.
An psychologist at one point in time tried to raise a baby monkey exactly as if it was a person. Diapers, language, rules, everything (except they used sign language instead of verbal language). the monkey was very similar to a human baby up until age 2. then, it stopped at about IQ 60.
So I'm wondering. Dogs can be breed for attributes like personality (been breed for the friendly ones), and sheep have been breed down for stupidity for thousands of years. Seeing the potential of the human brain (ex, eistein), it actually wont be too hard to breed monkeys for intelligence. wait, before you start flaming, here are some thoughts.
The human IQ scale is based on an average of 100 by definition. Also, by definition, out of 10 people, the smartest will have IQ 115. Out of 100, the smartest will have IQ 130. out of 1000, the smartest will have IQ 145, and so on. That means that for monkeys (avg IQ = 60), out of 10 monkeys, one will have IQ 75. Out of 100, one will have IQ 90. out of 1000, one will have IQ roughly equal to 100.
I am certain that there are more than 1000 monkeys. Even if not, we can probably find some with IQs more within the range of 100 (on a human scale). what would happen if we mated 2 monkeys with iq 100, and got 10 babies. Then, we raise their babies in a human setting... hopefully one of them will have IQ still in the 100 range.
The psychology experiment I read about only looked at one moneky, and it only had IQ 60, but i can imagine how if it was IQ 100, things would have turned out differently. If instead of just selecting for smart monkeys, we can breed monkeys for intelligence just like we breed pets for personality, I wonder how many generations it will take for a sample population of monkeys to get IQ of 160 average.
Anyone with a background in this area? I'm willing to bet that the whole thing might not even cost that much if you were a rich person retiring with some cash. Getting financed from someone else would be hard of course because there would be ethical issues involved
but if you were to do it all yourself, lets say that each generation of monkeys you breed takes two years before you can test their intelligence well enough to determine what their IQ is. Suppose also that each time you mate two monkeys, you try to mate them enough to get 10 offspring, so you know you have a good sample. This means that at any point in time, you will have 10-20 monkeys to raise, and every 2 years will be another generation. Suppose that in Africa where the exchange rate is incredibly in favor of USD, it costs $5USD/day to feed each monkey. This means that for 20 monkeys, it costs $100 per day, or 36500 per year. Every two years (two years is one generation) it will cost roughly 80k.
So basically, the math works out as: For each generation you want to breed, it will cost 80k and 2 years. So the question is. Just for curiousity, how many generations do we need before our little lab in Africa will have smart enough monkeys that we can start having them do fucking research and since they belong to us (heck, dogs belong to us), we can take all their money and it wont be called slavery, and even if it was, who the hell cares as long as it's in africa rather than the US, and as long as there is a market for the results they make, people will buy their research. that's just life.
analysis: if 10 monkeys per generation, that means that IQ can be increased by 15 points per generation. scaling this from human terms into monkey terms, this is actually (.15)x60 = 9 IQ points per generation. starting at 60 and ending up at 160, we need an extra of 100 IQ points, or roughly 11 generations. The cost of 11 generations is 11x2 = 22 years, and 11x80k = 880k.
so in summary. To genetically engineer/breed a species of monkeys that has IQ of 160 on average, will cost 22 years and 880,000. subsequently, each of them will have roughly the IQ of einstein (supergenius level) and any work they do will be yours to own.
Also to put this into perspective. If the average person makes 50k a year and you have ten 160IQ monkeys working for you, 880/ (50x10) = you will break even within 2 years. not bad if you ask me. this is assuming that a monkey with 160 IQ is only able to make as much as the average human idiot. truth be told, researchers in medical technology and etc tend to make much more than 50k/yr. i'd say more like 80k/yr and even 120k/yr if ur in med tech.
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Sooo, this is how planet of the apes started...
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I think the iq deviation from average for monkeys would be much smaller than humans, so you'd need a hell of alot more monkeys to get a possiblity of 100 iq, but a cool idea nevertheless.
Then again, by the end you'd have enough monkeys to write the complete works of shakespeare and the rest of human literature by just putting them on typewriters.
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I see a lot of monkeys getting dumber and dumber every day..
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Why would there be a monkey with IQ of 75 out of 10? Just because human has the same ratio doesnt mean they do, I mean if you follow by that logic there must be a monkey with IQ 120+ out there all these years and monkeys havent even passed the stone age equivalent of human yet.
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if this is how planet of the apes started, they neglected to show in the movie the rich guy living in a palace harlem in africa while the rest of the human race is gone. "oh what, some people came in a time machine? dang monkeys should be more careful with leaving time machines lying around in unknown parts of history. ya, cook them. make sure they don't get the immortality elixir. yes, you, worship me. bring me more babes."
in response to xcetron, there are also people with IQ 160 all the time, but they tend to get bullied and stupified in our education system to IQ of 100. Now if you are a fucking monkey with IQ 120, wtf r u going to do? Sorry bro, no computers to hack in monkey land. in the US, smart kids get beat up. in monkey land, smart monkeys hump trees and get eaten.
If the smartest of 10 monkeys has 9 extra IQ points than the average (IQ of 69 when the average is 60), then it takes 22 years and 880k. Let's scale this down.
If the smartest of 10 monkeys has X extra IQ points than the average, then to get to 160 IQ, it'll take 22(9/X) years and 880(9/X) k dollars. Still, not so bad as long as X is more than 3 or so. You guys are right. 9 might be a bit high, bur 3 is doable...
If george bush can lead the US and spend 600 billion in Iraq, then 60 years and 2 mil is completely worth it to actually make the monkeys smarter than bush. (actually, by the time they're 160IQ, they'll be twice as smart as bush)
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Osaka27181 Posts
Of course, the monkeys with higher IQs will realize it is bullshit that they are slaves to stupid hairless humans, and rise up in rebellion. With stupid humans as they slaves, they will then go on to create the... PLANET OF THE APES.
But seriously,
we can take all their money and it wont be called slavery, and even if it was, who the hell cares as long as it's in africa rather than the US
WTF? Looks likes someones parents wouldnt have made the cut if they were in your little experiment.
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Osaka27181 Posts
o fucking bullshit 5 planet of the apes jokes while i type up my response.
whatever, OP is still a fucking idiot.
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On May 07 2007 23:13 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote:
I am certain that there are more than 1000 monkeys. lol good call
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On May 07 2007 23:20 Manifesto7 wrote:
o fucking bullshit 5 planet of the apes jokes while i type up my response.
whatever, OP is still a fucking idiot.
pwned.. I was first LOL! My life < yours.
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touche manifesto, i only speak the language of logic. can you translate your post? I'm actually getting somewhere with this if you care to read the numbers.
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is awesome32282 Posts
Wtf, we are no pokemons. We dont follow simple breeding formulas.
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progress with the breeding would slow down dramatically after a few generations. it'll be fast when you're just selecting for the smartest among existing genes, but after a while you'll get the smartest combination of monkey genes there are, and you'll be relying on mutations to get any smarter, it'll way harder.
also, IQ as one single number for intelligence is already pretty flawed for humans, but between different species it's going to be much worse. there ARE different dimensions of intelligence. e.g. if the monkey is really great at doing abstract math in its head, but simply can't communicate those ideas with humans since it has limited language facilities, it's not going to be of any use as a researcher. another way of looking at it is ZOMG BATS CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE TO FLY BY SONAR, THEY MUST HAVE 200 IQ -- which is clearly absurd.
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anyone here know any dog breeders? i wonder what they would think...
As a side thought, i think the only thing that is worse than breeding for intelligence, is not breeding for intelligence and demanding it anyways, ie. the current schooling system.
actually, i hate the whole thing with everyone needs to be smart and needs to excel. It would be nice if goals were set more reasonably. i don't promote breeeding by any length of the human imagination, but with the amount of depression, suicide, loneliness, etc in our society nowadays, one really wonders whether we would be better off it we did, or the alternative is to provide more reasonable standard for our children.
everyone, please be a good parent for your children. if they don't measure up to standards, it's only your own fault for breeding with the wrong zergling. lesson of the day. make sure you spawn broodling in the right medic, or you have no right to eat your children.
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is awesome32282 Posts
On May 07 2007 23:20 Manifesto7 wrote:
o fucking bullshit 5 planet of the apes jokes while i type up my response.
whatever, OP is still a fucking idiot.
haHAHAHA
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Dude. Skip the monkey business and just start using humans. Take a bunch of high IQ humans in the 150 range, and start breeding. When monkeys get to that level they will have the same sentience and understanding anyways, so the morality is the same. Humans are just a lot easier to train, breed, communicate with, and the process would be faster as the base IQ is so high.
And for those that don't make the cut we can just use them for food, like Jonathan Swift suggested. Just make sure that experimental humans are marked early on with birth, such as a number tattoo or a Star of David.
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I think the average IQ of monkeys fall in a MUCH shorter range.... t_t
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On May 07 2007 23:33 Aphelion02 wrote:
Dude. Skip the monkey business and just start using humans. Take a bunch of high IQ humans in the 150 range, and start breeding. When monkeys get to that level they will have the same sentience and understanding anyways, so the morality is the same. Humans are just a lot easier to train, breed, communicate with, and the process would be faster as the base IQ is so high.
And for those that don't make the cut we can just use them for food, like Jonathan Swift suggested. Just make sure that experimental humans are marked early on with birth, such as a number tattoo or a Star of David.
more ethical issues involved with humans -_-. if i had to breed humans, i'd breed for attractiveness and cup size, and the INVERSE of intelligence.
oh, and wtf. how come the human race has been breeding for hot women for thousands of years, and we still got fucking trolls wandering around!?
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God stop jumping on him ~_~
I don't care if he's an idiot or not, if this idea is valid or not.
Point is, he thought about something, and the spirit of thinking, regardless of quality, should be praised and never frowned upon. So, we should honor him for starting the thinking and not flame for the stupidity of it. He tried.
Anyways to Op:
As others have pointed out the bell curve might distribute differently than that of Humans in monkeys... and there's also something wrong w/ your set up is that not 100 IQ monkey breed w/ 100IQ monkey will yield 100 IQ monkey.
Most likely that 100 IQ monkey is just by luck, and if u breed that you get more IQ 60 monkeys out of them because sperms can be fucking random.
So maybe if we controll the meosis of sperms and the DNA make ups that seperate the smart monkey from the dumb ones, we can perhapes manipulate that.
But man that violates natural selection in so many ways It's kinda scary to think about it, not sure if it's something you'd like to try... It could possibly end humanity!
Oh the humanity! :p
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cause it doesnt go hotwoman + hotwoman = hotter woman. It goes hotwoman+randomguy=unknown result
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EPT
