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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Don't sue the government/party, don't get into sticky situations involving Tibet. Don't go scooping around Military assets and you would be fine. If you are here to learn the language and doing business then you would be welcomed but trying to pass on your opinion on how things should be done is a big no no. | ||
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Redunzl
862 Posts
On September 25 2010 15:57 Manifesto7 wrote: As a guy who came from Canada to study in Japan in 2005, ended up staying, and later marrying a Japanese girl and being fully accepted into their family, I think I have some pretty good insight on the matter. Japan is awesome; and Osaka specifically is excellent for language study (I studied in my festival group). I made a bunch of friends and it never stopped being awesome. There's not much more to it than that; I would never go back and choose China. Sharing your experiences is one thing, using them as evidence is another. It is a majority now. Before Hong Kong switched back to China in 1999 there was a mass exodus. Most of them came to Canada rather than America because the dollar was so much weaker there. They got a much better rate on their savings. My friend in high school was the only white guy in his class. That is a pretty dumb expression haha. its not dumb. have much time have you spent in china mani? you really think japan is as different from NAmerican life as China is? I've been to Japan a fair share of times. Although I have lived in Beijing for 5 years that doesn't affect my judgment of how much different life is here than in the US or Canada. Besides the language and various anecdotal cultural peculiarities, life in any big city in Japan closely resembles that of NAmerican in any big city. In Beijing, Police carry a tea thermos instead of firearm. This is just an appetizer. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27181 Posts
As for how different China or Japan is from the west, it isn't a contest and it isn't measurable. I could match you example for example until we are blue in the face. It is pretty redundant. To say that Japan is an "extension of the west" is pretty ignorant from my point of view. I think it is funny that you said "other than various anecdotal cultural peculiarities" and then proceeded to give exactly that about Chinese police. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
Let me just say this: After doing a lot of research, my conclusion is that the political path China took is the correct one, and it's something that couldn't have happened any other way, or there wouldn't be a unified China today. Some un-practiable democratic ideals (like the 89 student protest) wasn't gonna hold a country up for a slew of practical reasons. China's revolution and then 30 years of isolation has maintain its own sovereignty at a tremendous cost, but it was worth it as a whole. Its history's so long, any Chinese would say that it's more important to keep everything together and maintain its place of prestige in the world, as oppose to being a handful of unorganized small "democratic" states each under the political umbrella of some outside power. It was the path a country of real ambition would've taken. It's far from perfect in practice, sure, it's still coming along. But there's no point in taking some ideological highhorse position cus if you live on earth, chances are your country's got no business pointing fingers. Especially not the US, where democracy has always been discriminant domestically, and abroad where it's just a pretext for doing whatever it wants. I'd be a tea partyer and say I wanna "take back real America," except it's so muddled and I know we've benefited so much from our own decidedly undemocratic practices abroad. Politics at the international level has never not been dog-eat-dog under the tablecloth. As for this topic, I don't think the OP's gonna get anymore out of it. It's not gonna affect you any more either way if you go to China or Japan. Stick to the good shit everyone can agree on - language, culture, and all that jazz. | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
It's called information warfare. The average western shmock's not supposed to know enough to be fair. Cus good heavens he ain't gonna read up on it himself. So he gets told through the media. Some people don't know, some want to believe the exaggeration even if untrue. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Sounds to me like the same sort of crap that old emperors used to tell their peasants so they can enjoy their power in peace. What ever system that you think China has adopted is NOT correct. It's not even the ultimate conclusion of the original Communist plan. China was supposed to developed into a democratic and socialist society where with the first step being the improvement of welfare for all. Now have a look around, what's there? governors do what ever the hell they want and officials are basically immune from anyone except their own party. Have a look at the peasants (which may I remind you still make up 2/3 of Chinese population) and how exploited they are. Sounds familiar? | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
You don't know enough to speak on this. The "ultimate conclusion" or whatever you're talking about is philosophical only. In practice there's stalinist-leninist, and maoist. Since 1976 China has taken a different path altogether by adopting their own style of capitalism. This is cus the point is not about being communist so much as it's about maintaining and carrying on the cultural legacy. Whatever poor peasants used to be even poorer before. China has simplified its own system of writing to help the illiterate. That's an ultra-leftist move for such a traditional country as China. As for corruption, it exist as does in any political system. Only somehow all the fault explicitly falls on the central government when it shouldn't. It'd be like people blaming the political malfeasance in the city of Bell on the fed. In terms of social policies China will continue to move toward leniency when its own culture is secured. They still got a lot to learn about being nice with political red tape though, that's what's being exaggerated like a mofo. It's the correct path. It may not be correct to you cus to you it's a purely ideological argument. You approach it from a vacuum-like "Substitute me with a Chinese person, I don't want my rights be curtailed" angle. To them it's a practical and a historical one. And frankly I'd say it paid off. ^ I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. You are saying that because the average person is dumb, he is not entitled to know the truth. I was responding to fearus about people in the west. What jew talking about? | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
A lot of people tend to have this perception that changing to a democracy will improve the situation, the Congo didn't get the good end of the democratic stick and the transition out of the Soviet Union was not the smoothest, they had to revert back to a highly centralist ruling style to survive the transition. Anyways I think we derailed the OP's question quite hard.... | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
And if you're curious politics in Japan's all backroom. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On September 26 2010 23:28 .risingdragoon wrote: I think the OP has enough info. And if you're curious politics in Japan's all backroom. How is that different from China or anywhere else in the world really? | ||
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mesohawny
Canada193 Posts
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MK
United States496 Posts
First, do you like Internet? If you do, you'll HATE China. It is, sorry about this one but: SHIT. Absolutely. It doesn't work. I've paid for the most expensive one and it is still SLOW. Ok, pretty fast when you go on Chinese pages but when it comes to the US or Euro ones... OMG. Sometimes, it's quite good but you never know when and why it starts to be damn slow. When I was in Tokyo, I had Internet for almost free and it was lightspeed. Always. edit : yup, I've also forgot to mention the no-facebook, no-youtube, no-everything (but pornsite badgirlsblog.com works) so you have to get a VPN (which sometimes doesn't work well because internet is sooooo bad in Cn) Then, Chinese people are impolite. Sorry but it is true. You have almost to fight to get on the bus or the train. No one stop their freaking car to let you cross the damn large street. Everyone is pushing everyone in the crowd. Tokyo is crowdy, actually, even worse than Beijing BUT people show respect. They are not just like crazy rushing everywhere no matter what. Queue? Forget about that in China. The stronger first in. hate that. Service is also WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better in Japan. Actually, the Japanese service is surely one of, or maybe THE best in the world. Always here to serve, to help the customer. Even very small shops. Even at 2 in the morning. In China? It's like you're insulted because you don't want to buy their damn fake Gucci jeans! And when you ask something, it's like they barely want to answer you. Sometimes they don't even look at you. damned. Now about schools. AHAH. Chinese H. Education is just a JOKE. Friends of mine are in Beida, one of the top uni there, and what they learn is basically what you learn reading some books at home. Yup, everything is about books there and learning by heart. Damn, I've been helping an high school student in maths and what he was learning is basically what I've learnt at "classe préparatoire aux grandes écoles" in France, which is very high level. BUT, he doesn't understand what he was learning. He was just memorizing every exercise he did with me in order to copy/paste it at the exams. wtf... But tbh, I don't know how it works in Japan. Because I've actually never studied there but when I talk to my Japanese friends at Keio Uni., it seems that is also pretty much about learning things by heart in high school but it's more opened and better in College. And finally, Japan is on another planet. Yup. It's just a place like no other place. I ain't saying it's a good point or a bad point, depends on your position but, if you come here and live here for a while, you'll discover a new world. Chinese people say Japanese culture is just a copy of the Chinese one. Which is, ofc, totally untrue. A part of the Japanese culture is from there but just a part. What makes Japanese culture so incredible is their culture has been developed under the influence of many other cultures. It's a mix. Just one example: the food. In Japan, I've ate the best Sushi in the world. Yup BUT also the best ramen, the best chaomien, the best chaofan, the best curry, the best baozi and the freaking best French restaurant! Un comble! Japanese people are opened to new things. This is why they are so good in bringing new technology and stuffs like that. So, yup, if me, I'd choose Japan, definitely. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
On September 27 2010 03:06 MK wrote: I've worked and lived in Tokyo and I'm living and working in Beijing. And to make it short: JAPAN IS WAY BETTER. First, do you like Internet? If you do, you'll HATE China. It is, sorry about this one but: SHIT. Absolutely. It doesn't work. I've paid for the most expensive one and it is still SLOW. Ok, pretty fast when you go on Chinese pages but when it comes to the US or Euro ones... OMG. Sometimes, it's quite good but you never know when and why it starts to be damn slow. When I was in Tokyo, I had Internet for almost free and it was lightspeed. Always. edit : yup, I've also forgot to mention the no-facebook, no-youtube, no-everything (but pornsite badgirlsblog.com works) so you have to get a VPN (which sometimes doesn't work well because internet is sooooo bad in Cn) Then, Chinese people are impolite. Sorry but it is true. You have almost to fight to get on the bus or the train. No one stop their freaking car to let you cross the damn large street. Everyone is pushing everyone in the crowd. Tokyo is crowdy, actually, even worse than Beijing BUT people show respect. They are not just like crazy rushing everywhere no matter what. Queue? Forget about that in China. The stronger first in. hate that. Service is also WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better in Japan. Actually, the Japanese service is surely one of, or maybe THE best in the world. Always here to serve, to help the customer. Even very small shops. Even at 2 in the morning. In China? It's like you're insulted because you don't want to buy their damn fake Gucci jeans! And when you ask something, it's like they barely want to answer you. Sometimes they don't even look at you. damned. Now about schools. AHAH. Chinese H. Education is just a JOKE. Friends of mine are in Beida, one of the top uni there, and what they learn is basically what you learn reading some books at home. Yup, everything is about books there and learning by heart. Damn, I've been helping an high school student in maths and what he was learning is basically what I've learnt at "classe préparatoire aux grandes écoles" in France, which is very high level. BUT, he doesn't understand what he was learning. He was just memorizing every exercise he did with me in order to copy/paste it at the exams. wtf... But tbh, I don't know how it works in Japan. Because I've actually never studied there but when I talk to my Japanese friends at Keio Uni., it seems that is also pretty much about learning things by heart in high school but it's more opened and better in College. And finally, Japan is on another planet. Yup. It's just a place like no other place. I ain't saying it's a good point or a bad point, depends on your position but, if you come here and live here for a while, you'll discover a new world. Chinese people say Japanese culture is just a copy of the Chinese one. Which is, ofc, totally untrue. A part of the Japanese culture is from there but just a part. What makes Japanese culture so incredible is their culture has been developed under the influence of many other cultures. It's a mix. Just one example: the food. In Japan, I've ate the best Sushi in the world. Yup BUT also the best ramen, the best chaomien, the best chaofan, the best curry, the best baozi and the freaking best French restaurant! Un comble! Japanese people are opened to new things. This is why they are so good in bringing new technology and stuffs like that. So, yup, if me, I'd choose Japan, definitely. What this guy said is completely true. I can tell you right now that if you are an average guy like us who can't live without internet, you will run into a brick wall in China. China has this huge firewall that either disables or slows down the travel of data from servers outside of China as a mean of information control. You like broodwar and like the Korean stream? Sorry, you can't view it. You like google? Sorry, you can't use it. You like porn on the surf? Well, I don't know about that one. I am not going to give the Japanese education system any credit because I don't know enough about it. But let me tell you this, the Chinese education system is FUCKED UP! Here is how things work in China. Elementary school = super hard. Middle School (grade 7,8,9) DECIDE your future. There is this test you take at the end of middle school that decide what highschool you are qualified to enter. What highschool and what rank that school has DECIDE your future. Highschool is hard too, but the bad part is over. Good highschools WANT you to graduate because a failure would lower its ranking. If you are in a good highschool, you are guaranteed a good university. University is a CAKERUN in China. University is fucking hard in Canada, but in China, it's fricking easy with so much free time! So yeah, an average Chinese kid's future is decided by what he does when he doesn't even have public hair yet. More over, like this guy said, the Chinese school teaches you astronomical stuff that you will NEVER use in real life. I dunno if this is Chinese government's attempt to one up western system by forcing much more complex knowledge into Chinese kids, but that's how it works. The system is made to encourage memorization, rather than understanding. Why else are truly brilliant Chinese kids taking TOEFL and trying to get to a western education system? It's true that Japan may be more expensive to live in, but China is slowly getting worse too. If you want to save money, you can buy unproven stuff that is made from god knows where from street shops for super cheap. But if you want the real branded good stuff, be prepared to squeeze your wallet. A lot of Chinese got dirty rich from the recent boom and businesses are milking it. Chinese do, however, treat westerns with extreme respect. In fact, they used to treat westerns with awe, because they are like rare specimen, big foot or dinosaur. That is no longer the case, but still funny to think about it. The one good point I can think of about China is that learning the Chinese language might be useful for the future, as opposed to Japanese. But hey, if you are into anime or whatever, Japanese is a useful talent toi have. I am Chinese and I lived in China till I finished elementary school. I know enough to know that I'd go to Japan. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
And answer me this: Why are so many Chinese so good at self-loathing? It's so sad it's hilarious. Haven't you got any, you know, pride for what has been accomplished? I'm not Chinese, but I do know that intellectuals my grandfather and his generation, the ones who chose to stay in China rather than escape to Taiwan, and later their kids took on the burden of not only losing their assets if they had it, but also tasked with uplifting the poor from the inner-China. Who else was gonna do it? Who else was gonna level the playing field somewhat? Through all that bitterness came the China of today, still much to be done, but still whole. Think I'mma stop now or I'm gonna come off as biased for-China or something, rather than taking an non-feverish look at modern history. It took Japan a whole generation and half after WWII to the fix the damage their militarist imperialism did them. There are ills all around the world, it's not like one Norwegian going to China or Japan gonna do anything for either place, and yet somehow the lottaya seem to feel like dispensing with the 2 pennies of conviction as some form of self-affirmation. If you want to focus on education there's no point going abroad at all, stay fucking put. It'll take some more time before that'll change. Going abroad entails opening up to a range of things a cross section of any given population would never even consider. Wherever you go that type of open-minded, non-prejudgmental mentality's gonna do your personal development good, that's why you go. If it's all about the amenities why don't you just stay in Norway? It's not like Norway's Mexico or something where folks are forced to cross over to harshness just to secure some semblance of a future. Norway hasn't been poor for a long time. Your country buys plenty of goodies with all that oil pumped outta the seabed. Yet somehow I feel like you're feeling that that's not the point. I'm done muthafuckas. To OP, take that step of personal development, seriously chances don't come around at a whim.. And for good advice take your questions to your local university experts who will give you a good overview that actually pertains to you. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
And seriously are you basing your beliefs about Japan off of a movie that's based on Lord of the Flies? "I am so smart u are all so dumb holy fuck why is this piece of shit thread still going after I posted my opinion in it" | ||
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Matoo-
Canada1397 Posts
On September 27 2010 05:25 dukethegold wrote: What this guy said is completely true. I can tell you right now that if you are an average guy like us who can't live without internet, you will run into a brick wall in China. China has this huge firewall that either disables or slows down the travel of data from servers outside of China as a mean of information control. You like broodwar and like the Korean stream? Sorry, you can't view it. You like google? Sorry, you can't use it. You like porn on the surf? Well, I don't know about that one. - Live streams: I've had no problem watching osl/msl/gsl/tl open so far. No problem either doing a France-China video chat over MSN yesterday. - Torrents: 1.5MB/s on a single torrent a few days ago. Usually 500+KB/s if there's enough seeds. - Blocked sites: VPNs work fine and give access to absolutely everything. The biggest issue I've encountered so far is that HD YouTube videos don't load fast enough so I either have to switch to 480p or let it buffer a bit before starting. To the real issues now: - Gaming. I've not tried it myself but I've heard latency is horrible when you want to play with europe/us friends from China. If you're an avid gamer I could see that being a real problem. - Price. A VPN is around $5/month and a fast internet connection is about $50/month where I live in. If you're tight on budget it can matter. That's about it. If the two aforementioned issues aren't a big deal for you then chinese internet is just fine. Unless you're like really stressed out and need to have all your downloads going 1+MB/s and be able to watch three 1080p YouTube videos at the same time. But in this case I would recommend against coming to China anyway. Patience is a good skill toi have here.  | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
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MK
United States496 Posts
And the deal about dirty is, actually, Beijing isn't THAT dirty. Tbh, Shinjuku is pretty crap at night BUT Beijing is all about being chaotic, all messed-up. Constructions everywhere, at anytime. Cars or bikes going everywhere, even on the zebra like "'sup, np". People spit, even in the freaking bus! Com'on, are you serious? And real life experience? Ahah, I've just met a one-armed/leg-less tramp going at work. The guy was on a skateboard begging for money. Wtf. Yup, there are bums in every city in the world and there are actually many in Paris or Tokyo. BUT, you won't see one-eyed kid or dying people in the street begging for money. You won't see some folks bringing their dying father in the street begging for money. You won't see an old man burnt like a monster begging for money. Because in Japan or in France, the state take them in charge. Or they just hide their misery. Actually, I globally like China (I won't come if I hated) BUT details make a country better than another one. So if it's between China and Japan, one again: Japan. For sure. | ||
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