Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around

babysimba

10466 Posts

April 13 2018 19:14 GMT

#165

I don't know what issues they have with PLD, but PLD is probably the few pos5 support in the scene that can roam really well. I mean that guy is the player that destroyed teams through solo roaming in MLG 4 years ago.

Fnatic had an interesting dynamic where they let PLD roam with pos5 farm priority, when DJ needs to play greedy yet static supports like shadow shaman or willow.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:15 GMT

#166

On April 14 2018 04:11 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how Fnatic should have played the 2nd aegis. Firstly, they probably would have liked that one to be on Abed but because it was contested EE had to take it as fast as he could. Then they thought about pushing bot towers, but Vega was all there and you really don't want to pop exorcism to get a T1, otherwise pushing is incredibly slow, and Furion is pushing the lanes in elsewhere.

After that EE went top I believe to push it out, Vega smoked after them and found some kills which again wasted the aegis duration. And then Fnatic didn't want to commit to a base push anymore with the aegis running down, but yet tried to turn the top fight around

EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 19:17 GMT

#167

On April 14 2018 04:15 Taf the Ghost wrote:

Show nested quote +

EE teams always get too slow so EE can farm, so they miss timings. Or, they slow down as the game goes on, his teams normally lane well and come in with good strategies.

And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:23 GMT

#168

On April 14 2018 04:17 spudde123 wrote:

Show nested quote +

And what would have been the timing there? That was what I was wondering about.

Well, getting the mid T2 before 20ish minutes to start. Taking at least the bottom T1 before 40 minutes. This Fnatic team is terrible at the Objective side of "Objective-based Gaming", but the big thing was losing their mid T1 around 15 minutes. It killed any chance for a high ground push with the first Aegis, and maybe the second as well.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:25 GMT

#169

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3829506426

See this game from Optic yesterday for what a clinical Brood game looks like. 33 took the Mid T1 at 8 min, T2 at 10 min and the Mid T3 at 16 min.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 19:27 GMT

#170

Killing Abed twice around the Dire triangle was pretty good from Vega in that regard. If the Brood controls that area, smokes to kill the T2 and T1 bottom tower come pretty naturally. But if the Brood is dead and you have to regain the map control or you never get it back, it's much harder. It's pretty annoying to keep the side lanes out because the Brood doesn't want to move there and the DP wants to be involved in the plays the team makes and not sitting on a lane passively. If the Brood manages to posture aggressively, Vega can't move out to do any moves of their own because the Jakiro has to be sitting back dealing with it

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:33 GMT

#171

Yup. Jakiro also worked as a good natural counter, and they played it well. Vega knew they had to kill Abed a few times, did it, and won.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 19:48 GMT

#172

Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage

The Nyx+Naix combo also isn't that threatening atm given that Naix wants to farm the radiance

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:50 GMT

#173

On April 14 2018 04:48 spudde123 wrote:
Not sure how everyone on the panel and the commentary desk is so confident about Vega later on. Feels to me like the Void can become a pretty significant issue given that he has DP and Lina to add damage

Need a lot of net worth on all 3 cores before the really scary point for Fnatic's draft.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 19:52 GMT

#174

Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 19:54 GMT

#175

On April 14 2018 04:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Lina is the scary one to get out of control, though.

I think Naix and Nyx+AA should be quite good against Lina. But ofc Lina has a massive damage output if Fnatic manages to set her up. And I don't think Vega has the best answers to chrono, which was why I brought it up as a problem for them

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 20:07 GMT

#176

I guess the weakness of Fnatic's lineup is again that they are pretty weak in smaller groups compared to Vega, somewhat similarly as in g1 against NaVi. They constantly are pretty scared to keep the lanes pushed and can't take advantage of these aegises too well. Also makes successful smokes hard to do

Achaian

United States3369 Posts

April 13 2018 20:17 GMT

#177

EE matching his love for chinese cartoons with his love for chinese bkbs

Deleted User 173346

16169 Posts

April 13 2018 20:21 GMT

#178

--- Nuked ---

spudde123

4814 Posts

April 13 2018 20:21 GMT

#179

These Nyx initiations are really good. Feels like it's too difficult for Fnatic to get a good jump themselves and Vega is doing a good job not giving any freebies

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

April 13 2018 20:25 GMT

#180

The Jakiro is actually doing work and has been all game, it really should be noted.