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i'm more calmed now and i gotta say, it's painfully clear they need a captain.
they more or less ALWAYS get good lanes, do good in the early, even the early/mid, but then they just lose track of what they are supposed to do, most games they end up winning is because they get a good early game and they roam, get kills and keep the momentum, but if that momentum is not big when the medium/late game comes they are lost.
Also, Dendi on farming/strong cores and cristallyze and do shit and farm heroes cores is the combination they have been far more succesful.
Honestly, bar Lebron, i'm convinced this team does have the individual talent to do good things, they just need someone to put them in line, the lack of a IGL is right in front of their eyes.
Sadly, i don't know who...
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On May 03 2018 03:24 Faruko wrote:
i'm more calmed now and i gotta say, it's painfully clear they need a captain.
they more or less ALWAYS get good lanes, do good in the early, even the early/mid, but then they just lose track of what they are supposed to do, most games they end up winning is because they get a good early game and they roam, get kills and keep the momentum, but if that momentum is not big when the medium/late game comes they are lost.
Also, Dendi on farming/strong cores and cristallyze and do shit and farm heroes cores is the combination they have been far more succesful.
Honestly, bar Lebron, i'm convinced this team does have the individual talent to do good things, they just need someone to put them in line, the lack of a IGL is right in front of their eyes.
Sadly, i don't know who...
I would gladly take ppd or even Kyle, I can't stand any of them, but given CIS lacks good pos5 captains, whats left?
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Just get Puppey back after Secret disband pos TI. But he needs someone to control his stubbornness of refusing to ban opponents'best heroes, and trying to outdraft them. Most teams can only play 3-4-5 heroes on top level. Just ban that and win. Maybe Dendi and XBOCT know him well enough to controll him...
And yes, i agree NaVi got it all, Top Tier Carry, very experienced mid, one of the best offlaners, very good pos 4, all they need is top tier drafter and IGL. LeBron is good, he does his job very well, but to be a top team these days you need a very good captain, and there are like 5 of them out there. So you either get one of them, or keep trying find a new one.
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On May 03 2018 04:04 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 03:24 Faruko wrote:
i'm more calmed now and i gotta say, it's painfully clear they need a captain.
they more or less ALWAYS get good lanes, do good in the early, even the early/mid, but then they just lose track of what they are supposed to do, most games they end up winning is because they get a good early game and they roam, get kills and keep the momentum, but if that momentum is not big when the medium/late game comes they are lost.
Also, Dendi on farming/strong cores and cristallyze and do shit and farm heroes cores is the combination they have been far more succesful.
Honestly, bar Lebron, i'm convinced this team does have the individual talent to do good things, they just need someone to put them in line, the lack of a IGL is right in front of their eyes.
Sadly, i don't know who... I would gladly take ppd or even Kyle, I can't stand any of them, but given CIS lacks good pos5 captains, whats left?
I doubt they speak english ingame, so it will have to be a cis player - which limits the options even further.
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On May 03 2018 06:36 sCuMBaG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2018 04:04 Racket wrote:On May 03 2018 03:24 Faruko wrote:
i'm more calmed now and i gotta say, it's painfully clear they need a captain.
they more or less ALWAYS get good lanes, do good in the early, even the early/mid, but then they just lose track of what they are supposed to do, most games they end up winning is because they get a good early game and they roam, get kills and keep the momentum, but if that momentum is not big when the medium/late game comes they are lost.
Also, Dendi on farming/strong cores and cristallyze and do shit and farm heroes cores is the combination they have been far more succesful.
Honestly, bar Lebron, i'm convinced this team does have the individual talent to do good things, they just need someone to put them in line, the lack of a IGL is right in front of their eyes.
Sadly, i don't know who... I would gladly take ppd or even Kyle, I can't stand any of them, but given CIS lacks good pos5 captains, whats left? I doubt they speak english ingame, so it will have to be a cis player - which limits the options even further.
Exactly. The language barrier is too big for general and crystallize. Dendi and Lil can speak English but I don’t think the other two do. And puppey is not coming back, Isnt he a co-owner of Secret? I really don’t know who can right the ship. Artsyle coming back into competitive play or Xboct stepping in and playing 4 and lil 5 are the only solutions that are even remotely viable at the moment. (And they’re a reach at that).
I agree with Racket that the outcome of epicenter could be the worst possible, given it provides enough of a glimpse at the capabilities of the current roster to not make any changes for rest of season, but likely false hope given the inconsistency we continue to show. All around super disappointing day for the team.
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Miposhka or cema?
Ay thank goodness I wasn't caught up in the hype. Navi has always been able to take games off good teams, but what I want to see is just some consistency.
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it is quite painful to see navi win against arguably #1 and #2 teams in the world at moment. my hope is one of the following:
1) they over-prepared for VP and Secret, and the preparation paid off (as a consequence, they did not prepare even 1% for Pain/Newbee, and the loss is a result of that)
2) they got over-confident after VP and Secret, and thought they can take it easy against Pain/Newbee
i think #1 is most realistic. however, results are results - if you cant make it out of a group stage after beating the best teams in the world, you are not prepared for Ti.
great players, but i don't see consistency. get a better coach imo.
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If they were to bring back Sonneiko, from the business perspective, they would be quite dumb. They should have extended his contract six months and have him as sub. Just in case.
After all NaVi has been through, believing the team will do just as good after losing/kicking what made the team click, would be TOO naive.
If there are going to be changes, it has to be now. They will have to go through OQ and they still have a few tournaments to test themselves against real teams.
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Honestly, fng? Good ps5 player + had good results as captain, also way too different roster, no xboct and no funn1k.
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On May 03 2018 16:24 Racket wrote:
If they were to bring back Sonneiko, from the business perspective, they would be quite dumb. They should have extended his contract six months and have him as sub. Just in case.
After all NaVi has been through, believing the team will do just as good after losing/kicking what made the team click, would be TOO naive.
If there are going to be changes, it has to be now. They will have to go through OQ and they still have a few tournaments to test themselves against real teams.
Where’s the Sonneiko talk coming from? I thought that bridge was officially burned.
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Sonneiko had 2 chances and the rumours were always that he was toxic and hard to play with, not much you can do about it
also, he was top tier, but he hsan't been playing on a team for quite some time so... there must be something about those rumours being true as who would not want a player like Sonneiko in their team
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On May 03 2018 18:38 Faruko wrote:
Honestly, fng? Good ps5 player + had good results as captain, also way too different roster, no xboct and no funn1k.
Fng and Lil is a no-go, at least that is the last status of their relationship I know of. Maybe it changed, who knows.
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Sonneiko is an outstanding player, way better than Lebron, who is i dare to say 2tier under the rest of Navi lineup. With him on pos5 NaVi could strive for top tier again. BUT! Its said that Lil is a toxic player, and on top of that to add Sonneiko... i dont see any long term success, unless they have a team psychotherapist who can work with them a little bit so they overcome that barrier.
I play dota with real life friends since 2005. There is probably 20 of us who constantly play and challenge each others in LAN games, and there are several toxic players, although they are mechanically high tier, and that CAN NOT change, in all these years
There is a say among us: WE CAN DRINK COFFEE ALWAYS, BUT DOTA NEVER.
Sonneiko has proven himself as a good captain, exactly what they need to overcome that 20-30min CHOKE, where they usually lose games. Navi ULTRA rarely loses laning stage, but they choke in mid game and lose.
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On May 04 2018 17:18 FekY wrote:
Sonneiko is an outstanding player, way better than Lebron, who is i dare to say 2tier under the rest of Navi lineup. With him on pos5 NaVi could strive for top tier again. BUT! Its said that Lil is a toxic player, and on top of that to add Sonneiko... i dont see any long term success, unless they have a team psychotherapist who can work with them a little bit so they overcome that barrier.
I play dota with real life friends since 2005. There is probably 20 of us who constantly play and challenge each others in LAN games, and there are several toxic players, although they are mechanically high tier, and that CAN NOT change, in all these years
There is a say among us: WE CAN DRINK COFFEE ALWAYS, BUT DOTA NEVER.
Sonneiko has proven himself as a good captain, exactly what they need to overcome that 20-30min CHOKE, where they usually lose games. Navi ULTRA rarely loses laning stage, but they choke in mid game and lose.
I would pair them together, but after two tries (and on top of that with Lil), I don't think it will work. They distrust will be there from both sides from the beginning and the glass that used to be empty before now needs just a drop to overflow.
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Korea (South)2591 Posts
Sonneiko was never a particularly good captain, and they've mentioned several times he's not very interested in being one. They did better with him on board because he's a very good player, that's about it.
I honestly don't know why captaining seems to be such a huge problem for Na'Vi, though. I don't believe the whole, 'theres only 5 good captains in the world thats why they cant do well' thing -- there's been plenty of teams doing better than Na'Vi at least for limited stretches of time, even in CIS. Just look at the Silent stack right now, it's not as if the lineup is some sort of a superstar show (although they are good players no doubt), yes they do dumb shit and lose to dumb shit too, but overall I'd say they seem as cohesive if not more cohesive than Na'Vi is as a team in terms of coordination and strategy, having barely spent any time playing together. It's really frustrating.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Well well well, here we are again. I really dislike putting Lil on 5, when his entire playstyle seems much more suited to 4.
Also I have literally zero clue about the new player besides him being a high-ranked pubstar (finding his old teams for liquipedia was already hard enough and I think it still all jumbled up).
Let's hope for the best and that they can make it to Vancouver this year
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is the new player a captain? If not, same problem as before.
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Gogo new squad. No idea who he is but a change finally happened and it was needed.
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On May 14 2018 21:45 _Elendil wrote:
is the new player a captain? If not, same problem as before.
Yep, LeBron was a pretty good 5, but he was not a captain. How is this an upgrade? My guess is that this is a new player. And you need a lot of experience to captain. Maybe Lil can try that, he learned a lot from Solo, but it is one thing to watch a player make the ingame calls, and completly another to actually have what it takes to make them.
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You guys don't even know the player and are assuming he is not a captain?
rofl
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EPT
