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On May 22 2014 06:56 Unleashing wrote:Will never happen, the dude considers it a game of luck and compared alliance winning TI3 with entering a lottery and hoping to win.  He'd basically be the biggest hypocrite in the world if he ever began playing(Oh wait...)
I believe he somewhat retracted those statements in the interview he did with ongamers, and is apparently playing LoL now.
It's really easy to see the game like that coming from the outside though. I'll be the first to admit to having said similar things on TL.net like 3 years ago, and I doubt I was the only one to change my mind about it after having played the game myself.
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You are comparing SC to Dota. Now compare SC to Street Fighter. SC skills translate well to Dota because it's a similar genre, but I don't think a SC player will have an advantage in other games with completelly diferent mechanics.
Just look at PLD to see how some skill really don't transfer well to other difficult genres such as Mario Party
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On May 22 2014 06:59 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Nani is diamond 1 in LoL, reaching it in 3 months or even less :D
Where did you got that? I've always been pretty curious about Nani's LoL endeavours.
What's his League nickname?
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On May 22 2014 07:02 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 06:59 govie wrote:
I think that sc2 is the hardest game in the world, mechanicslevel is so freaking high. If you are good in sc2 you will have an easier time adjusting to any other game. I cant say the same about dota or lol Not at all. Even if you were the best player in the world in SC2 it doesn't mean you'll be even remotely successful in dota2. It's a teamgame.
Please reread, i said you have an easier time adjusting to any game, because mechanicslevel in sc2 is higher. That its a teamgame doesnt really affect my statement at all.
Bw is even harder comeh, your right but that game was played on an atari and they dont make computer that run on diesel anymore
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 22 2014 07:05 DoucheyPoochie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 06:59 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Nani is diamond 1 in LoL, reaching it in 3 months or even less :D
Where did you got that? I've always been pretty curious about Nani's LoL endeavours. What's his League nickname?
twitter.com
On May 22 2014 07:02 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On May 22 2014 06:59 govie wrote:
I think that sc2 is the hardest game in the world, mechanicslevel is so freaking high. If you are good in sc2 you will have an easier time adjusting to any other game. I cant say the same about dota or lol Nah. League is very hard in mechanical level because game tempo is very fast usually and you need to make some really flashy decisions to win because of bursts, DotA in general doesn't require as much mechanics, it's way more complex game than League and decisionmaking is usually > mechanics. In League you basically can win only on mechanics, in DotA it's not possible. . Also i disagree with this, you also have to make flashy descisions in dota and dota definitely doesn't lack burst damage. Plenty of games can be won or lost in dota because a player got outplayed or simply had worse mechanics than his opponents. Getting firstblood in mid because you're a mechanically superior player? That can snowball into you getting yet another kill or simply win you the lane. There are quite a few mid match-ups for example where the mechanically talented player will win his lane not because of decision making but because of his mechanics. I've played both LoL and dota and i definitely consider dota to reward the mechanically superior player a lot more. So i really don't see how you can say that, or rather i simply disagree.
It's your choice to disagree (:
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On May 22 2014 07:07 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:02 Unleashing wrote:On May 22 2014 06:59 govie wrote:
I think that sc2 is the hardest game in the world, mechanicslevel is so freaking high. If you are good in sc2 you will have an easier time adjusting to any other game. I cant say the same about dota or lol Not at all. Even if you were the best player in the world in SC2 it doesn't mean you'll be even remotely successful in dota2. It's a teamgame. Please reread, i said you have an easier time adjusting to any game, because mechanicslevel in sc2 is higher. That its a teamgame doesnt really affect my statement at all. Bw is even harder comeh, your right but that game was played on an atari and they dont make computer that run on diesel anymore
It does affect your statements, because mechanics are far from everything you have to adjust to if you made the switch from SC2 to DotA.
You'd have to adjust to the team aspect as well, so it's very much related.
And a lot of the mechanics from SC2 don't really translate well into the things you'll be doing in DotA2 tbh.
Not that i don't agree that a game like SC2 or BW is more mechanically demanding anyway.
If there is any game that would make the transition easier it would be WC3
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Nice, BabyK was legit, his SF was amazing.
Would probably be wise to wait for the post-TI4 roster shuffle to get a team though.
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There was that one guy whose name escapes me who tried switching from SC2 to DOTA2 for a while. I think he was on QPAD? He kinda sucked at it, though, and switched back to the game he was decent at.
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For what it's worth, I also strongly disagree with you, Wonderful, and I've got more than 1k games played in each.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say "In League you basically can win only on mechanics, in DotA it's not possible." is objectively false. Not only is there the obvious "Watch a 4k smurf go mid against 3k players", it also doesn't make sense to say the game with fewer mechanics to (ab)use has more return on mechanical skill. Even though I can't honestly say I prefer one game's mid 1v1 to the other's, I can say that Dota2's mid matchup feels far more intricate and reliant on solid mechanics than League's did.
Really this is a debate only Yangod could settle, but I don't think he meddles with LOL VS DOTA arguments
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On May 22 2014 07:30 Acritter wrote:
There was that one guy whose name escapes me who tried switching from SC2 to DOTA2 for a while. I think he was on QPAD? He kinda sucked at it, though, and switched back to the game he was decent at.
It was SeleCT, the guy that popularized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On May 22 2014 07:33 DoucheyPoochie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:30 Acritter wrote:
There was that one guy whose name escapes me who tried switching from SC2 to DOTA2 for a while. I think he was on QPAD? He kinda sucked at it, though, and switched back to the game he was decent at. It was SeleCT, the guy that popularized ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I knew it started with an S! I just went through all of Liquipedia's goddamn player list trying to find him. What, do they not list retired players there or something?
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to bad to be considered a player
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no they only list relevant players.
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mid lane in league is a farm fest and is decided by jungler coming to gank
top lane in league is a farm fest thats even more farm oriented then mid
bot lane is the only interesting lane
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i think you're in the wrong thread
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United States47024 Posts
On May 22 2014 07:31 Fleetfeet wrote:Really this is a debate only Yangod could settle, but I don't think he meddles with LOL VS DOTA arguments
Mechanics is such a loaded term as to make the discussion pointless.
I can see where oo_Wonderful_oo's point comes from, though. In League animations and turn rates are short/non-existent and there's a lot more "spammable" things so playing out the game tends to use a lot more pure reaction/execution. DotA has certain limiters built into the game mechanics (animations, turn speed, etc.) and slower cooldowns on higher-value spell effects, which means execution is heavily reliant on an understanding of how these mechanics work rather than pure reactions/muscle memory/etc.
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On May 22 2014 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:31 Fleetfeet wrote:Really this is a debate only Yangod could settle, but I don't think he meddles with LOL VS DOTA arguments Mechanics is such a loaded term as to make the discussion pointless. I can see where oo_Wonderful_oo's point comes from, though. In League animations and turn rates are short/non-existent and there's a lot more "spammable" things so playing out the game tends to use a lot more pure reaction/execution. DotA has certain limiters built into the game mechanics (animations, turn speed, etc.) and slower cooldowns on higher-value spell effects, which means execution is heavily reliant on an understanding of how these mechanics work rather than pure reactions/muscle memory/etc.
You build responses to those mechanics into muscle memory.
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as far as other games go,I played sc2 and LoL besides dota and in all of these games I was always around the same skill lvl compared to the % of playerbase and was regularly stuck at a certain point
like I could never get higher than 1900 elo in lol,was never higher than mid masters in sc2 and now I'm around 4.6-4.7 k(which is the worst of the 3 right now I think but i didnt get the same amount of time in yet) in dota.
I do think some skillsets transfer over but overall its just that people put a similar amount of effort into the games they play that cause them to always be around a similar lvl comparably to other games,if that makes sense
I obviously don't know what went on in selects head but if I had to guess I believe he thought he would have to put in less time and effort into dota than sc2 so that bit him.Like if he had just been quite about stuff and still played the game he would probably be a very good player by now.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 22 2014 07:48 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 07:47 TheYango wrote:On May 22 2014 07:31 Fleetfeet wrote:Really this is a debate only Yangod could settle, but I don't think he meddles with LOL VS DOTA arguments Mechanics is such a loaded term as to make the discussion pointless. I can see where oo_Wonderful_oo's point comes from, though. In League animations and turn rates are short/non-existent and there's a lot more "spammable" things so playing out the game tends to use a lot more pure reaction/execution. DotA has certain limiters built into the game mechanics (animations, turn speed, etc.) and slower cooldowns on higher-value spell effects, which means execution is heavily reliant on an understanding of how these mechanics work rather than pure reactions/muscle memory/etc. You build responses to those mechanics into muscle memory.
In dota i know every cooldown, when i can trade and so on.
And playing lol for 4 years i still am like - what, it's already up?
You have to play way much league to be successful than dota players play the game because if you have understanding of fundamentals in dota and have, let's say 3k hours played in your life, you can just out-experience your more skillful opponent, let's put it as that.
And it's not the case in LoL.
It's just imo, ofc, i don't say that it's only true thing which exists in the world.
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The fact that you can't leverage experience and understanding of the game to increase your effective skill is an indication of a lower skill cap/curve and not the other way around
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EPT
