On October 01 2012 12:48 NB wrote: There is a problem i have with alchemist, its not about the hero but about the misconception of people playing him. He is supposed to be an initiator ganker, not a carry farmer. If you wana win with alchemist, you have to max stun first with not more than 1 point into the Gold buff skill. The reason is his Stun deal PHYSICAL damage which will scale HUGELY early game with his 1st skill + medalion. Once you got the early lead, buy phase boot + dagger and you can pretty much pick off any loner from 8 to 15 mins mark or the game. Late game you either go pipe + tank item to tank up or you get eul+DPS(mostlikely deso+AC) to do Pushing DPS. This concept should also be applied to meepo since i see a lot of people farming with him once you get level 6.
? Radi/bkb/ac makes you kill anything and be virtually unkillable while ur ult is up. If u want to play like that, just play slardar which is way better at that than alchemist will ever be.
On October 01 2012 13:12 LAN-f34r wrote: Alch has 1 BAT with lvl 3 ult. ONE. The integer between zero and two. If that's not a reason to spam farm with him, I don't know what is (except maybe his new greed).
Also, in that style he is outclassed by a few other melee carries:
Tiny - we have seen how hard he can carry, yet he hasn't received any direct nerf to the blink roaming style you are suggesting. Far more nuking power, more utility, more reliable stun, and yet faces the same problems as alch (no armor being the major one).
Slardar - pretty much made for this style. High MS through his abilities, better -armor...
DK - not a very powerful ganker is he? Yet he has a relaible stun, a good nuke and HAS ARMOR. He can actually stand in mid and get levels solo. Which, for a ganker like that, is compulsory - Being levels above who your ganking, or at worst, on par, has a huge impact on early-mid game ganking. Alch can't solo a lane except maybe vs passive laners.
And meepo does gank early-mid. Often he is behind though, and one of his strongest points is farming XP REALLY quickly.
what is BAT?
also i re read your post, nothing really make sense to me... if you wana write it differently so i could understand your point you are trying to say?
His point is that Alch's base attack time is very low with his ult on, compared to other carries, this makes attack speed items scale very well with him. In this sense you would want to shoot for late game with lots of items on alchemist where you feel the hero has advantage. He then lists several similar style carries that does this.
The wisp buff makes tiny wisp better, and 4 bans in phase one instead of 6 makes it easier to get as well, I can see that as a nice pocket strat for those that know how to play it.
Slardar and DK's main advantage over Alch I feel is their early game killing potential, especially their access to a reliable and instant stun. Also, they increase the speed of entering late game by either killing towers fast with poison dragon or killing roshan early with amplify. I feel they are easier to fit into a team compared to Alch, who really should only be farming early on, since he gets money from the quantity of creeps he kills.
Meepo to be honest is not very viable, his level and gold advantage comes at the expense of his team, and pro teams will ward and deward well enough that you would be hard pressed to gank efficiently, while at the same time his weaker meepos will be susceptible to burst damage, earthshaker and lion being notable counters to meepo, stun+ult easily takes down the non-main meepo.
I was listing other heroes that were better than alch at the style he was suggesting, and yet still aren't used that way. Alch has the advantage (due to 1 BAT) in the late game, but if you want to focus on early game there are many better heroes to do it with. Not to mention semi-carries like TA, NS, etc which are actually used like that.
oh i think there was a confusion, i was talking about the CURRENT alchemist pre-patch, not post patch. Personally i think he does need buff but not in the gold earning but more toward ganking-roamer. Gold is a nice touch for raping pub and all but i dont think competitive should be about farming carry. With the new gold distributing system and several carries nerf plus, several item buff(dagon LOL) and the new abn/pick distribution there is a high chance that agressive ganking meta will comeback with a lot of forcing fights and tower trading. I dont think building any hero toward the carry line in this patch gona be a good idea anyway.
The heroes getting nerfed next patch are mainly those used a lot in the last International and tournaments afterwards. For example Naga Siren got huge nerfs(-12 base damage) and Dark Seers Vacuum was changed to so it doesn´t work with Sirens song anymore. It is not a nerf to carries in general.
But I do think some of the buffs might not be enough. Drows new ultimate with +60 on lvl 16 is drastic, but doesn´t help with her weak early and midgame presence. Unlike Phantom Lancer, who is gonna be much better now with 4.2 agi per level, making him viable much sooner.
Actually, it's worth noting that the carries that were nerfed were primarily the ones that come online early game and contribute to midgame push/teamfight compositions that dominated 6.73/6.74. The carries that got buffed by and large are the slower, farm-ier carries.
On October 01 2012 14:45 NB wrote: oh i think there was a confusion, i was talking about the CURRENT alchemist pre-patch, not post patch. Personally i think he does need buff but not in the gold earning but more toward ganking-roamer. Gold is a nice touch for raping pub and all but i dont think competitive should be about farming carry. With the new gold distributing system and several carries nerf plus, several item buff(dagon LOL) and the new abn/pick distribution there is a high chance that agressive ganking meta will comeback with a lot of forcing fights and tower trading. I dont think building any hero toward the carry line in this patch gona be a good idea anyway.
If the meta is moving towards ganking, then is that not an indication that either the carries need to either be buffed or removed? What is the point of having all these characters that are not used? Since there are major buffs the way of many ganking heroes (including indirect ones, such as the increased gold from 2/3 people kills), does it not make sense to buff the carries so that they can still.. you know... do something? The only other arguement is that void/spec/dusa etc should all either be remade or removed.
Is there anyway to avoid players on Dota 2 (match making) or no? Though I'd imagine if such a feature would ever be implement, the wait times for everyone would triple or increase 10 fold >.> (there would be dozens of reasons for players to abuse such a feature).
Muting them might help. I haven't personally seen a muted player in one of my games, but that's hardly conclusive. I doubt it though (like you said, there are many ways to abuse that). But likely, if you want to avoid them on MMR, you probably want to mute them as well so
EPT
