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On June 24 2011 09:57 SiCkO_ wrote:
Wow
This is pretty sad considering that ICCup basically hijacked Game's tournament that he worked hard to make worthwhile.
Totally.
Not implying/suggesting anything, but if this somehow goes on in iCCup except with Game completely out of the picture, iCCup would pretty much seem like fucktards for stealing Game's blueprints and then selling the product as their own (this is very, very blunt compared to what I really meant but it's just to get the idea).
And with that said, I REALLY hope the tournament can still go on regardless of any kind of outcome.
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On June 24 2011 09:57 SiCkO_ wrote:
Wow
This is pretty sad considering that ICCup basically hijacked Game's tournament that he worked hard to make worthwhile.
Yeah it's pretty crappy that iCCup spends hundreds of hours working to keep their service going for nothing on volunteer staff only. The amount of time required to even do the hiring on the volunteer staff is full time job worthy seeing as people join up realize it's too much work then quit immediately. Then when a major tournament uses their services they actually want their logo to be displayed and promoted without the admins trash talking them? SHOCKING!
All that hard work they do for nothing in return and then they want some recognition when the big sponsored league is using their services? Yeah really sad.
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Could you give the whole martyr shit a rest? It's getting old
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Okay serious time in a seperate post so you dont get confused on the whole sarcasm thing. iCCup has always taken a stance of talk bad about our league talk bad about our administration but never talk bad about our volunteers. And this is why they make a big deal about whenever ANY user is flaming our staff because they're volunteers donating their time if someone did something wrong there are correct channels to get this communicated. It takes a LOT of effort to be banned for this let alone multiple times. And according to the iCCup statements this has happened to Game several times. This is in no way unreasonable especially given the scope of the tournament he was running.
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They could put their own effort into setting something up and then put their logo up on that.
They already have their logo all over the place for what they are doing and maintaining, the PvPGN server and the website.
Obviously it's something these people do with passion and joy, otherwise they would quit their volunteering job, because that's how it works, so don't use that as an excuse, if they didn't want to do it, they wouldn't, nobody is forcing them.
edit: To your second post:
It always depends which admin you step upon. And getting banned again if an admin decided to dislike you is more than just easy with certain admins.
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On June 24 2011 10:52 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 09:57 SiCkO_ wrote:
Wow
This is pretty sad considering that ICCup basically hijacked Game's tournament that he worked hard to make worthwhile.
Yeah it's pretty crappy that iCCup spends hundreds of hours working to keep their service going for nothing on volunteer staff only. The amount of time required to even do the hiring on the volunteer staff is full time job worthy seeing as people join up realize it's too much work then quit immediately. Then when a major tournament uses their services they actually want their logo to be displayed and promoted without the admins trash talking them? SHOCKING! All that hard work they do for nothing in return and then they want some recognition when the big sponsored league is using their services? Yeah really sad.
This wasn't about lack of recognition, this was about ICCup punishing a league for having an organizer who has had spats with volunteers (and from the looks of it, it wasn't as much spats about ICCup as it was personal, unrelated issues). ICCup could have simply been the big boy and be professional, but instead they decided to pick a fight over it in a petty way.
Was Game rude to your staff? Probably, though we will never know for sure. However, besides bruised egos, did he really damage you guys in any way? ICCup basically went to the rest of the ISL staff and said, it's either the tournament or him, giving them an agonizing decision over whether or not to proceed with a project they felt was very important or to basically kick out the guy who had given the most to the project. This isn't a "fair and reasonable response", this is a disgusting abuse of power that robs the community of someone who was genuinely interested in promoting Foreign Brood War.
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On June 24 2011 10:57 LML wrote:
They could put their own effort into setting something up and then put their logo up on that.
They already have their logo all over the place for what they are doing and maintaining, the PvPGN server and the website.
Obviously it's something these people do with passion and joy, otherwise they would quit their volunteering job, because that's how it works, so don't use that as an excuse, if they didn't want to do it, they wouldn't, nobody is forcing them.
edit: To your second post:
It always depends which admin you step upon. And getting banned again if an admin decided to dislike you is more than just easy with certain admins.
I worked on iCCup for almost 2 years much of htat time spent as a head of my division and let me share with you something. It is not a job people do because it is fun. It is far from fun it is tedious thankless and you frequently get yelled at during the process by the users who think you're treating them unfairly for doing your job. It gets done because it needs to be done, some parts of the job down right suck and thats why their turnover rate is rather high. It is something htat is done with pride but in most cases not joy and that is why I always stick up for the iccup admins.
These people are truly donating their time and from the point of a super admin it did take significant proof of any ban manner flaming insults against an admin to be banned for it. It was never taken lightly there had to be significant overbearing evidence of not just one incident but a pattern of such. If an admin took it upon themselves to ban for this they were immediately dismissed no questions asked this was an issue that was always dealt with by super admins or the head admin. I've been making these points show some reference into the behavior that caused such an event like this to occur and how that one individual cannot simply be banned repeatedly because of some minor grudge.
edit:
On June 24 2011 11:09 SiCkO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 10:52 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On June 24 2011 09:57 SiCkO_ wrote:
Wow
This is pretty sad considering that ICCup basically hijacked Game's tournament that he worked hard to make worthwhile.
Yeah it's pretty crappy that iCCup spends hundreds of hours working to keep their service going for nothing on volunteer staff only. The amount of time required to even do the hiring on the volunteer staff is full time job worthy seeing as people join up realize it's too much work then quit immediately. Then when a major tournament uses their services they actually want their logo to be displayed and promoted without the admins trash talking them? SHOCKING! All that hard work they do for nothing in return and then they want some recognition when the big sponsored league is using their services? Yeah really sad. This wasn't about lack of recognition, this was about ICCup punishing a league for having an organizer who has had spats with volunteers (and from the looks of it, it wasn't as much spats about ICCup as it was personal, unrelated issues). ICCup could have simply been the big boy and be professional, but instead they decided to pick a fight over it in a petty way. Was Game rude to your staff? Probably, though we will never know for sure. However, besides bruised egos, did he really damage you guys in any way? ICCup basically went to the rest of the ISL staff and said, it's either the tournament or him, giving them an agonizing decision over whether or not to proceed with a project they felt was very important or to basically kick out the guy who had given the most to the project. This isn't a "fair and reasonable response", this is a disgusting abuse of power that robs the community of someone who was genuinely interested in promoting Foreign Brood War.
Like I said in the second post iccup has never tolerated a pattern of negative behavior towards the volunteers. BM the head honchos all you want they can handle it and take it was criticism but they never wanted to lose actual staff over it. This is something that nobody is immune to and you cannot even claim he should get slack because he was running the ISL since he was running the ISL he should take more care to be an example for this.
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On June 24 2011 08:33 masterbreti wrote:
Disclaimer: I am an iccup admin, but I do not speak for iccup in this post.
I think everyone is taking it like iccup wants a powergrab. This is not it at all.
Game has insulted iccup staff nemrous times both on tl and through other means. He has had multiple account banned due to it on iccup.
I'll give a little analogy.
You have a guest in you're home. He eats and takes whatever he wants. You are nice enough to let him stay because you don't want to start anything.
the guest always bitches about the house "well its a garbage shack,' he says. He always bitches about how you should be doing more to take care of him. He trashes you and is always insulting you.
Now he wants to have his friends come over, meanwhile in front of those friends he is saying how much of a crappy house you have.
What would you say to him?
Personally like most i would say to him if he doesn't like it, then don't be here, go somewhere else.
That is essentially what iccup is doing. the admins are being insulted and belittled by Game. Yet game wants to run events here? why would iccup let him? doesn't make much sense.
So yes if you look at it from Game's prospective. yes it is iccup being bastards and trying to ruin the fun. But from iccup position. Why would they let someone in who is insulting the server and the people who work hard to keep it going. looking at it from there makes total sense.
There is no reason that Game couldn't take isl2 to another server. But Game wated to use iccup.
to reuse the analogy. Game is wanting to use our house to have his party. And expects iccup staff to pick up the mess while he is insulting us about doing a bad job and also insulting the house.
What a shitty analogy. First of all, you benefit from these friends being in your house. Second of all, they SHOULD be your friends also, as BW players. And what the fuck are you talking about "telling his friends you have a shitty house"? I don't know Game or any of the drama between you guys, but when I read the announcement post I didn't see anything that said "ladder will be on iCCup, even though they suck ass, LOLZ" And I doubt they would stream games saying "Here we have Scan vs. Sayle, looks like there might be lag, because iCCup sucks."
Most of the people participating in the tourney would not know what went on between you guys. You don't like Game, obviously. You don't want him involved? Fine! But just say "We fucking hate Game, we'd rather ruin his day that do something good for BW." Stop acting like you guys are being all professional, when in reality, you're just being children.
Game might be a dick for all I know. But what I do know is that he put a lot of time and effort to do something great for this community. But all you guys care about is, quite simply, a stupid grudge. No matter what you choose to call it.
Regardless, I'm glad things got sorted out. Though maybe for the next ISL they could just put aside some of that sponsor money to get their own server and ladder, eh?
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Pretty sickened by this whole thing. Gonna go play on Fish for a while.
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is awesome32269 Posts
Seems like you guys can't have a proper discussion without shitting all over each other.
Good job.
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EPT
