[SPL] KT Rolster vs Team 8 - Page 140

On December 03 2011 05:39 DyEnasTy wrote:
Ya I agree, ive always thought Jaedong had better mechanics than Flash as well.

On December 03 2011 09:11 bearbuddy wrote:


Hyuk has 121 higher APM than Flash. He's obviously got better mechanics.

On December 03 2011 08:39 Mumei wrote:
I think of mechanics as consisting of more than just hand speed and also encompassing things like one's mouse accuracy / how well one micros, sense of timing, etc. (e.g. Flash here is pretty amazing), so I don't know if Jaedong being faster means that he necessarily has better mechanics. That might be too expansive an understanding of the term, though.



Jaedong is faster, at least. In their matches against one another that I have:

343 - 325
349 - 324
353 - 310
353 - 321
351 - 325
376 - 317

So Jaedong is generally around 350 APM and Flash is generally around 320 APM in their matches against one another. As a whole, Flash is generally around 300 - 350 in his more recent 2010 replays (and mostly around 330-ish); Jaedong's matches are around 350 - 400 depending upon the match-up (vP/vZ faster, vT slower).

Oddly enough (or maybe someone can explain it), they both have particularly high APM matches against foreigners in the 2010 WCG. Maybe they were a bit spammy those matches or something.

On December 04 2011 04:34 jyLee wrote:


Thats for one game... A short micro intensive match at that judging by the number of minerals and gas that was harvested. Nice try.

On December 04 2011 04:57 bearbuddy wrote:


It's pretty much known that July, Hyuk, by.Hero, Effort, etc have very high APM. It doesn't make their mechanics better.

On December 04 2011 05:03 jyLee wrote:

I agree with you on that, hand speed is just one aspect of mechanics. Just saying using that one 10-15 minute game statistic to say Hyuk is faster than Flash is misleading.

On December 01 2011 09:42 DyEnasTy wrote:


Betting on Flash is considered abandoning reality. With Flash 100% healthy and Jaedong not playing his best, Flash would win. Apparently thats insane to make that crazy bet.

On December 01 2011 14:02 oneofthem wrote:
flash is the better player but jaedong's raw mechanical talent is appreciably higher.

so in a prepared Bo5 or something flash is probably favorite still. jaedong would do well in pickup games.

On December 01 2011 15:11 DyEnasTy wrote:
Poor Jaehoon. First two matches this season are against Bisu then Flash. And who would have thought Killer < CH. But tbh I havent really followed Killer since he got nuked by Boxer.

On December 02 2011 07:22 Yxes2211 wrote:

While I agree with most of that, I do think there is confidence issues with JD right now.

JD is no doubt the most mentally tough player I've ever seen. (Though I'm sure someone will disagree)

However, JD looks to have some confidence issues that are glaringly apparent in his ZvZ and ZvP. His play is EXTREMELY rigid. Look at JD's play in ZvT. Last season he won with 7 pool, Overpool, 12 Hatch, 3 Hatch before pool --> 2 Hatch Muta, 2 Hatch Lair into 3 hatch (v Sea on Icarus), 3 hatch lurker, 2 base hive (vs Baby on CB) and stuff I'm probably forgetting. There is just a high confidence level in his ZvT that isn't present in his other match-ups. I think he is definitely struggling from a confidence standpoint right now.

How many times in a row last season did we see JD 9 pool or 12 hatch in ZvZ. That's not when JD is at his best. He's best when he's confident enough in a match up to do a number of different builds on the fly. How many times have you seen JD do his fast fourth build and get thrashed by a timing push in ZvP. I think in an interview JD said he was struggling with the that match-up. JD is having confidence issues, and I think he's struggling to find his identity right now. There's been so much doubt in him in recent month's: "Is he the best Zerg?", "Is he still worthy of being the #2 player?", "Is JD beginning his slow decline?" I mean, JD said that he was worried if he could ever play BW again after the season ended; saying that he felt so pressured last season that his health was faltering. No matter how mentally tough he is, he is human, and eventually enough pressure will take a toll.

What I'm hoping for this season, is that Coach Hoon will take him aside and really help him. JD hasn't had a real mentor since Cho retired, and personally I think Coach Han is partly responsible for JD's decline. Sending him on the same map constantly in PL and making Oz one of the most predictable teams last season, made it easy for teams to get favorable match ups against JD. If you go back to when Bisu was slumping hard, Coach Park gave him an extended rest and then began the slow process of rebuilding Bisu's confidence with favorable match ups. JD needs something like that now. He needs a mentor to take him aside and really work on redefining JD's game. Coach Hoon did it with players before and has shown alot of interest in bringing JD back to form, so I'm hopeful.

Lol long rant and I'm sure someone will disagree, but that's my assessment on JD right now. I really want to see him be a bad ass again though D: I want the true deathstare to return >.<

On December 04 2011 04:34 jyLee wrote:


Thats for one game... A short micro intensive match at that judging by the number of minerals and gas that was harvested. Nice try.

On December 04 2011 08:21 FlaShFTW wrote:
seriously ZvZ needs to be remodernized. i hate these constant "lose 4 lings lose the game" scenarios... use scourge to kill overlords, force zerg to make more ovs and no units while you go lurkers :D