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Flash vs Effort BigFile MSL Ro32 game analysis.

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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naneri
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
April 12 2011 11:25 GMT
#1
Long time has passed since i first wanted to write down my Flash vs Effort Bigfile MSL Ro32 analysis, but laziness has prevented me from doing it until now.
Why would i like to make analysis of this game? Acctually i think that this game is brilliant from the point of winning a mind game in bw and in contrary to winning mind games like 4pool vs 14 cc or BBS versus 12 nex (sorry for my poor English :D) this one shows something really interesting.
Also i wanted to add that i never liked effort (especially after Korean Air OSL 1 finals), and nor I do now, but I have to admit that before he left BW in August last year he really was one of the best on the Korean pro-scene (and I hope that he will become again soon after his return).

Before I start i would like to ask you not to judge my english to strictly.

Ok, here we go.
(T)Flash vs (Z)EffOrt @ Fighting Spirit . Bigfile MSL Ro32.
+ Show Spoiler +

Flash spawns at 7 and Effort spawns on 11.
Flash builds depo - barrack and Effort goes 12 hatch - Spawning pool - Gas.
Flash finds effort with his second scv and sees 12 hatch, so he starts 19 CC.
[image loading]

The ultimate weapon sees the early gas, so he can already expect 2 hatch muta or 2 hatch lurker&ling push.
[image loading]

The first 6 lings kill the scv wandering around the zergs' base.
[image loading]

And here starts the interesting stuff
All drones move from gas to mine minerals after getting 100 gas and starting researching speed for zerglings and one drone heads towards 1 o'clock spawn location to put down an expo!!!
[image loading]

At the same time he returns 3 drones to gas mining. After that 5 drones move towards new expo to start mining minerals. Meanwhile the speed upgrade is finished and Flash doesn't even make any attemts to scout, cause it is impossible to do that when you have speedlings right in front of your base. Acctually flash still thinks that anyway effort goes for early pressure. Right after getting 100 gas effort starts morfing his main hatchery into lair and after getting 50 more he puts down the hydra den. Flash gets his academy and engeneering bay. He tries to move out from his base but meets 1,5 pack of speedlings and loses few marines with killing like 8 lings. So now Flash becomes more sure that Effort is up to some sort of cheese. Lair finishes right before control towers are finished, so when Flash scans that is what he sees:
1. Lair is ready
2. Hydra den is ready.
3. Only 2 drones mining minerals on Efforts' natural and 3 on gas. (Oh Effort that is genious)
4. No sunken on the natural
Flash doesn't know that the lair and the hydra den were up not far before he scanned. So he makes a conclusion that there definnetely going to be lurker+ling push.

[image loading]
What would you think about if you see this when you scan???


Immediatelly 2 more bunkers are started to back up his first bunker he has built before, while Effort starts building... queens' nest on his 1 o'clock expo.


[image loading]
Is this how you should respond...
[image loading]
...to this?


Flash is waiting for incoming lurker+ling push which won't come because effort only has 2 lurkers that he burrows on the way from his main to flashes and puts them on hold. After queens nest is finished the lair starts morfing into hive. Flash doesn't scan for a long time because he saved the energy in case of lurker+ling pressure. In the time when he needs no more energy and scans efforts main Hive is already done and defiler mound is half way built...
Flashes timing attack comes only few seconds later after the consume is researched so that he can do nothing to efforts' natural, while effort is already taking his 4th base.

[image loading]
Clutch timing isn't it?

Describing late game is not interesting :D, because Effort just deneied any pressure on his bases without a lot of.... effort :D. Flash's army was wondering desperately across the map, but he could do nothing. Though the ending looks really nice. Effort implemented doom drop on Flash's main, push on his 3rd and 4th expo within one minute.


[image loading]
Terrans' nightmare

[image loading]
13 seconds before Flash GGs


The overall of the game is that a nice prediction was performed by Effort. I think that it is the only thing why the game should be seen, but it is worth of it.

If you like my analysis i can write analysis of other games where I have seen nice mind games battles. I personally liked Flash vs Best on FS - SPL 2009-2010 Round 1 KT vs SKT, Flash vs Stork - Bachhus OSL Finals set 3 on Troy, Jangbi vs Baby - GSL on Medusa(dont remember which round). Flash vs Jaedong - Korean Air OSL 2 Finals Set 1.


I don't have access to youtube so i hope someone can give me a link so i could post it here. But pictures are available already :D
High APM is when your marine gets 3 stim packs instead of one.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7914 Posts
April 12 2011 11:34 GMT
#2
Nice, I didn't remember this game at all.

EffOrt is such a smart player :-)
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
April 12 2011 12:08 GMT
#3
Nice analysis. Looks like a very entertaining game.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
April 12 2011 12:27 GMT
#4
Nice! BW Strat section is undergoing a renaissance.
Keep it up man!
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
naneri
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
April 12 2011 12:29 GMT
#5
Mondern pro-starcraft leaves less and less space for something really interesting, so every game like this is a treasure.
High APM is when your marine gets 3 stim packs instead of one.
hellbound
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2242 Posts
April 12 2011 13:02 GMT
#6
Oh shit I love this game, going to read the analysis asap, thanks
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
April 12 2011 13:25 GMT
#7
Effort man, effort! Good thing that he will be back at the end of the 2011, I want to see Alien invasion again.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 12 2011 13:29 GMT
#8
I do remember watching this game live, and thought it was absolutely brilliant. It seemed like Effort did with ease what Jaedong had been struggling to do for weeks, which was to find a weakness in Flash's armor and beat him.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 14:24:45
April 12 2011 14:17 GMT
#9
Great analysis. Just watched the VOD aswell. Absolutely stunning timing from effort!
I just wonna add/correct:
He left one drone on gas.
And the main reason effort's base looked as it did (lurker-ling bust) was due to his mass drone transfer to his third. The early scv scout snipe was also crucial for effort being able to get away with the sneak expo.
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
화이팅
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
April 12 2011 14:21 GMT
#10
This is great, Effort's insight into the game is amazing, I hope he comes back and be this good (or even better). Nice game analysis.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
~ava
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada378 Posts
April 12 2011 14:23 GMT
#11
That was a good read I went back and watched that old game. If you do more of these in the future could you include the date that the match was played in the OP, or a link to the match in TLPD?

Thanks
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1805 Posts
April 12 2011 15:09 GMT
#12
oh man i like this analysis. the timing and game sense of effort is just so clutch!
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
April 12 2011 15:16 GMT
#13
what a game by effort

perfect planning, perfect execution!
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
April 12 2011 18:35 GMT
#14
awww. Thank you man so much. This is wonderful to see such kind of things, especially related to zerg. ^^
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 12 2011 19:14 GMT
#15
I remember watching this game live, and I was pleasantly surprised by Efforts execution and strategy. I still think the overall strategy is risky because you are really relying on Terran not knowing what do you are doing, and if Flash's push came 20 seconds earlier Effort could have lost right there. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy - it's good to mix it up in a BoX series - but I can't say players should use this as their standard ZvT style.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
April 12 2011 19:31 GMT
#16
Yes please do other analysis good read up thanks ^^
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
April 12 2011 20:07 GMT
#17
Really cool strategical game. Thanks for the analysis!
shinjin
Profile Joined January 2010
United States398 Posts
April 13 2011 00:21 GMT
#18
wow..that was really amazing play and timings by effort, to outsmart the genius that is Flash is no easy task lol
give it one more try because the best things in life dont come free.
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
April 13 2011 00:53 GMT
#19
hehe, EffOrt wasnt the only CJ member to fake an allin and double expand on Flash.

I remember watching this game live.. This was an AMAZING game, but there was some story behind it which made it even better for a huge EffOrt fan such as myself. (:

Basically Flash was all like "im the best, i've reached nirvana blah blah" Then lost to EffOrt lol, then right after that, he lost the OSL to EffOrt.. Then Flash I think picked EffOrt to be in his group, not sure but either way he said something like "EffOrts acting better than he is, its time for me to put him in his place" then he got roflstomped in this game haha I even made a pic about it (:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading] Yes the games are the opposite way they should be but whatever lol
Entusman #51
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
April 13 2011 01:05 GMT
#20
very nice considering effort's return =p
▲ ▲ ▲
gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
April 13 2011 01:19 GMT
#21
On April 13 2011 09:53 Mobius wrote:
hehe, EffOrt wasnt the only CJ member to fake an allin and double expand on Flash.

I remember watching this game live.. This was an AMAZING game, but there was some story behind it which made it even better for a huge EffOrt fan such as myself. (:

Basically Flash was all like "im the best, i've reached nirvana blah blah" Then lost to EffOrt lol, then right after that, he lost the OSL to EffOrt.. Then Flash I think picked EffOrt to be in his group, not sure but either way he said something like "EffOrts acting better than he is, its time for me to put him in his place" then he got roflstomped in this game haha I even made a pic about it (:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading] Yes the games are the opposite way they should be but whatever lol


i love you dude! haha
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
April 13 2011 01:32 GMT
#22
I don't like it when people say Effort is cheesy. He played smart in this game and Flash got owned by it
Brood War loyalist
0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
April 13 2011 01:38 GMT
#23
I haven't even read it yet but THANK YOU SO MUCH

I LOVE EFFORT
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
April 13 2011 02:36 GMT
#24
Best part about this game is that Effort called Flash a noob in the pregame chat and ended up rolling him :D.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
gamapg
Profile Joined January 2010
Philippines189 Posts
April 27 2011 10:42 GMT
#25
I have to say...

I like the
*Puts on sunglasses
(Z)EffOrt in writing this article
YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

But yeah, there's something about Effort I don't like... I mean there's just a certain mystique with Jaedong/Savior/ Yellow but I just don't fancy Effort's play... I appreciate those strokes of Geniuses BOs like Stork, Fantasy, Bisu (new timing for the +1 speed lot), etc... but not effort... oh well each to his own
Sajiki
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany522 Posts
April 27 2011 11:01 GMT
#26
amazing game on an amazing map
건설로봇 준비완료
ggggbabybabybaby
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada304 Posts
April 27 2011 19:20 GMT
#27
On April 13 2011 09:53 Mobius wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading] Yes the games are the opposite way they should be but whatever lol


Pocari sweat over the MSL vs JD was amazing. Thanks.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
April 27 2011 20:21 GMT
#28
On April 27 2011 19:42 gamapg wrote:
I have to say...

I like the
*Puts on sunglasses
(Z)EffOrt in writing this article
YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

But yeah, there's something about Effort I don't like... I mean there's just a certain mystique with Jaedong/Savior/ Yellow but I just don't fancy Effort's play... I appreciate those strokes of Geniuses BOs like Stork, Fantasy, Bisu (new timing for the +1 speed lot), etc... but not effort... oh well each to his own

Its because he is an alien isn't it?
+ Show Spoiler +
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Zyferous
Profile Joined September 2010
United States270 Posts
April 27 2011 21:21 GMT
#29
I started watching progames shortly after effort retired so after readin your battle report I am definitely looking forward to his comeback
Jaedong forever.
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
April 27 2011 21:52 GMT
#30
Thanks for writeup

I remember watching the game live and this was a perfect anti-Flash build. I'm kind of surprised more players haven't used this against Flash.
Biggest thing I remember from the game was Flash expansion timings were controlled by Effort. Generally Flash gets his third and fourth finish just as the zerg 4th expo finishes. In this game Effort had his 4th before either of Flash's 2 new expos went online. This was due to the no unit style from effort and Flash's defensive stance against 2 hatch lurker. The defensive tank style was thus delayed just enough for Effort to get off his double drop. It was a perfectly executed 4 base timing attack from Effort. Weird to know that everything was calculated up to that point.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
April 27 2011 22:39 GMT
#31
yea... nice analysis and great fucking play by effort. Can't wait to see him return to the scene, Hite will be a killer team with his addition.
jaedong imba
m4gdelen4
Profile Joined October 2008
United States416 Posts
April 27 2011 22:57 GMT
#32
On April 12 2011 21:29 naneri wrote:
Mondern pro-starcraft leaves less and less space for something really interesting, so every game like this is a treasure.


QFT
it does to blue what blue does to you
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36379 Posts
April 28 2011 03:21 GMT
#33
Hey starleague winner,
You’re that mister mister
That beat flash today, Oh em gee
The way you won is rare you know
Hey starleague winner, you carried CJ through its darkest times that night
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-28 03:25:59
April 28 2011 03:25 GMT
#34
August 31st
I'll be waiting.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
April 28 2011 04:03 GMT
#35
Effing hell I want to see effort vs Bisu
See how he fares against neo bisu
▲ ▲ ▲
CakeOrI)eath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States327 Posts
April 28 2011 07:43 GMT
#36
What a great prediction by Effort. I never really thought Effort was all that good but this game he played perfectly.

Good write up! I am looking forward to more in the future!
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
April 28 2011 10:31 GMT
#37
Nice write-up! I remember seeing this live, poor Flash really got mindfucked by Effort in that one!

Hahaha Mobius those pictures are genius

On April 28 2011 12:21 Hot_Bid wrote:
Hey starleague winner,
You’re that mister mister
That beat flash today, Oh em gee
The way you won is rare you know
Hey starleague winner, you carried CJ through its darkest times that night


Nice
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Nemesis
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2568 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-28 11:56:58
April 28 2011 11:53 GMT
#38
Hahaha I love effort. I can't wait to see him play again.

Even though, I'm a Flash fan, I couldn't help but be amazed by Effort's play, or maybe because I'm a Flash fan and I see him outplaying Flash that I am amazed by him.

Edit: Awesome analysis by the way!
Lee Young Ho fighting! KT P are just CHINTOSSTIC.
erin[go]bragh
Profile Joined December 2008
United States815 Posts
April 29 2011 02:53 GMT
#39
Was such a good game. I'm so glad effort is coming back! I thought no other zerg would be able to fill the void left by Julyzerg when he disappeared from televised games, but effort proved me wrong. I still remember the very first live game I saw from him, I believe it was one of his first proleague appearances, where he played a great ZvP with tons of drops and aggression. I liked him immediately.

The swarm can use some help. JD can't do it all alone and Hydra is just... meh.
JulyZerg! by.hero, effOrt, KTY.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
April 29 2011 05:57 GMT
#40
The first ever Effort game was the one vs Bisu, where moletrap said he was better than Jaedong.

I feel like this win in the MSL was actually done by effort, whereas the idiocy from Flash allowed effort to win the OSL.
☺
GuYuTe-
Profile Joined February 2005
United States550 Posts
April 29 2011 12:49 GMT
#41
I've always loved Effort's play and he's always struck me as one of the smartest zergs ever. Nice post reinforcing those thoughts!
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1805 Posts
April 30 2011 01:42 GMT
#42
wow effort is so good. i like that trick into lurker ling but really went for hive
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
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