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On December 07 2007 02:38 Chill wrote:
Why are you PM'ing me privately and then talking in this thread?
Had I heard he rigged maps? Of course. I assumed he only did it in big games against big names to show all his fans. It was only once he started doing it in casuals with the veterans of this forum that it was time to take action. I'm not going to personally take it upon myself to prove everyone who posts a strategical guide is legit. Many people actually benefited from his first TvP guide (believe it or not) and the discussion that the comments generated. If we allowed everyone to troll LS for being a suspected cheater, we would rob the community of this discussion.
Again, if someone knew he was a cheater, they have two options: Let us know with irrefutable evidence, via a thread or PM, or just let it go. Derailing every strategical discussion he takes part in is not an option.
No, you can also ,non offensively, try and inform the community that he is a suspected cheater. If you knew as you said, that he was map rigger, you could of tried to bring it to the community's awareness. People could of been more careful whilst playing with him. This [b]Pressure[b] could of even let him to try and stop using rigged maps, in order to save face. If it were to be untrue, it wouldn't have brought any great harm to his name. Its like I call testie a maphacker now. It would mean nothing because I can't bring any proof that he is still maphacking.
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On December 07 2007 02:42 Chill wrote:
Yes, that is what I said, and everything is accurate. You can keep quoting me all you want, I'm not making up stories or changing what I'm saying.
I was responding to haji. In hindsight, I'm not sure if Haji is saying its news to him of his map rigging, or news to him of your knowledge of the fact that he was a maprigger.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Ok, then you (or anyone) should have taken it upon yourself to PM every member of this forum. Trolling his every post is not the way to do that.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare
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How about making a thread? or posting it in one of his guides? Did I once advocate that users should "troll his every post"? I don' think I did, so please don't put words in my mouth. LastShadow is turning into the next Carlodaijin.
All the mods stuck up for him and he turned out to be...well...Carlo...
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Calgary26004 Posts
It's not my job to be the "cheater watchdog". I had heard he rigged high-level games. I assumed he didn't do it often, and because I didn't want to go out and assemble hundreds of LastShadow replays and start analysing them, I based my actions on that assumption. Guess what? I was wrong. But for every person I give the benefit to and am wrong, I will be right an equal amount of times. So should I make a thread calling out suspected cheaters, and if innocent people get caught in between, fuck 'em?
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Calgary26004 Posts
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On December 07 2007 02:51 intrigue wrote:
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare
I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the creation of this thread. What I was trying to say is that Chill claims he knew about this all along, not only him, but many of the posters who commented on his first "Pressure" guide, but said nothing about it. Either Chill is bullshitting, or if they knew, I feel somebody should of atleast hinted to the community that he is a map rigger so that other people could of taken more caution when playing him and not have let this farce go on for so long.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On December 07 2007 02:51 himurakenshin wrote:
Did I once advocate that users should "troll his every post"? I don' think I did, so please don't put words in my mouth.
Yes, in fact you did. He posted a guide, and you're taking offense that I 2-day-banned someone for posting the Under Pressure video. That's trolling him specifically, which you advocating.
LastShadow is turning into the next Carlodaijin.
All the mods stuck up for him and he turned out to be...well...Carlo...
Don't you think that it's worth something that we get it right in the end? We're not psychic so we stick up for people who are getting trolled. You sound like you want people to be banned at the first sign of a bad post.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On December 07 2007 02:53 himurakenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:51 intrigue wrote:
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the creation of this thread. What I was trying to say is that Chill claims he knew about this all along, not only him, but many of the posters who commented on his first "Pressure" guide, but said nothing about it. Either Chill is bullshitting, or if they knew, I feel somebody should of atleast hinted to the community that he is a map rigger so that other people could of taken more caution when playing him and not have let this farce go on for so long.
As I said, do you want me to make a thread about all my suspected cheaters? I don't get what you want me to do. I've explained this over and over.
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On December 07 2007 02:51 Chill wrote:
It's not my job to be the "cheater watchdog". I had heard he rigged high-level games. I assumed he didn't do it often, and because I didn't want to go out and assemble hundreds of LastShadow replays and start analysing them, I based my actions on that assumption. Guess what? I was wrong. But for every person I give the benefit to and am wrong, I will be right an equal amount of times. So should I make a thread calling out suspected cheaters, and if innocent people get caught in between, fuck 'em?
nono, you didn't say you suspected him, you said you knew he was an occasional map rigger all along. That's a big difference. And look at the dates between his first thread, where you claim that not only you, but many other posters knew he was map rigger, and posted out of sarcasm, and the creation of this thread.
May - December
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On December 07 2007 02:53 himurakenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:51 intrigue wrote:
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the creation of this thread. What I was trying to say is that Chill claims he knew about this all along, not only him, but many of the posters who commented on his first "Pressure" guide, but said nothing about it. Either Chill is bullshitting, or if they knew, I feel somebody should of atleast hinted to the community that he is a map rigger so that other people could of taken more caution when playing him and not have let this farce go on for so long.
Learn to read... as far as I can gather:
Chill says he heard accusations by the time of the first guide, but did not think his cheating was that widespread or serious. It was a judgment call.
It was not known until rather recently the true extent of his cheating when many people all brought it up and an investigation was done and this thread was made.
You don't just call somebody out for being a cheater after an occasional accusation without proof.
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On December 07 2007 02:55 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:51 himurakenshin wrote:
Did I once advocate that users should "troll his every post"? I don' think I did, so please don't put words in my mouth. Yes, in fact you did. He posted a guide, and you're taking offense that I 2-day-banned someone for posting the Under Pressure video. That's trolling him specifically, which you advocating. Show nested quote +LastShadow is turning into the next Carlodaijin.
All the mods stuck up for him and he turned out to be...well...Carlo... Don't you think that it's worth something that we get it right in the end? We're not psychic so we stick up for people who are getting trolled. You sound like you want people to be banned at the first sign of a bad post.
Once again, did I advocate trolling his every post? No. Is posting a Under Pressure MV trolling his every post? No. With regards to that topic, I just find it strange that you would temp-ban somebody over some sarcasm posted even though you knew he was a cheater. I just find it strange.
And about Carlo, you weren't even a mod during the Carlo incident (IIRC), so why are you talking about that using "we".
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On December 07 2007 02:58 azndsh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:53 himurakenshin wrote:On December 07 2007 02:51 intrigue wrote:
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the creation of this thread. What I was trying to say is that Chill claims he knew about this all along, not only him, but many of the posters who commented on his first "Pressure" guide, but said nothing about it. Either Chill is bullshitting, or if they knew, I feel somebody should of atleast hinted to the community that he is a map rigger so that other people could of taken more caution when playing him and not have let this farce go on for so long. Learn to read... as far as I can gather: Chill says he heard accusations by the time of the first guide, but did not think his cheating was that widespread or serious. It was a judgment call. It was not known until rather recently the true extent of his cheating when many people all brought it up and an investigation was done and this thread was made. You don't just call somebody out for being a cheater after an occasional accusation without proof.
Why don't you learn to read. Chill said he knew that he was a cheater, and that other people knew about this as well, hence the "sarcastic" comments of praise in his first guide, posted in May.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Okay dude, you are getting hung up on the most minor of details, so I'm going to be very specific with this reply and hopefully you'll be satisfied.
Early 2007: Someone told me he was a map rigger (I forget who). I had never played him.
Mid 2007: I met him online. Played him PvT. He used allied Mines on me and then talked shit when he lost. I never saw him online again.
~July-October: I heard about him releasing a replay on GG.net against... Idra? Artosis? Nony? Some media member where he rigged the replay. He claimed it was an accident.
Mid-November 2007: He asked for games on Hamachi, me and Zulu_Nation8 played him 4 games. He used a rigged map on all of us.
Late-November 2007: We asked the community for more rigged plays, now that we knew he is not only doing this is high-level games, but casual games against TL veteran members.
So did I "know" he was a map rigger before November. I guess so, but not indesputably and not first hand. I also didn't know the extent of his rigging.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On December 07 2007 03:00 himurakenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:55 Chill wrote:On December 07 2007 02:51 himurakenshin wrote:
Did I once advocate that users should "troll his every post"? I don' think I did, so please don't put words in my mouth. Yes, in fact you did. He posted a guide, and you're taking offense that I 2-day-banned someone for posting the Under Pressure video. That's trolling him specifically, which you advocating. LastShadow is turning into the next Carlodaijin.
All the mods stuck up for him and he turned out to be...well...Carlo... Don't you think that it's worth something that we get it right in the end? We're not psychic so we stick up for people who are getting trolled. You sound like you want people to be banned at the first sign of a bad post. Once again, did I advocate trolling his every post? No. Is posting a Under Pressure MV trolling his every post? No. With regards to that topic, I just find it strange that you would temp-ban somebody over some sarcasm posted even though you knew he was a cheater. I just find it strange. And about Carlo, you weren't even a mod during the Carlo incident (IIRC), so why are you talking about that using "we".
My reply had nothing to do with Carlo, so that's why I'm using "we".
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Calgary26004 Posts
On December 07 2007 03:02 himurakenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2007 02:58 azndsh wrote:On December 07 2007 02:53 himurakenshin wrote:On December 07 2007 02:51 intrigue wrote:
i don't even know what you're trying to say himurakenshin
are we too mean to lastshadow? should a cheater not be exposed for what he is and embarassed? should we go to great lengths to preserve his dignity and simply stop playing him?
this isn't daycare I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the creation of this thread. What I was trying to say is that Chill claims he knew about this all along, not only him, but many of the posters who commented on his first "Pressure" guide, but said nothing about it. Either Chill is bullshitting, or if they knew, I feel somebody should of atleast hinted to the community that he is a map rigger so that other people could of taken more caution when playing him and not have let this farce go on for so long. Learn to read... as far as I can gather: Chill says he heard accusations by the time of the first guide, but did not think his cheating was that widespread or serious. It was a judgment call. It was not known until rather recently the true extent of his cheating when many people all brought it up and an investigation was done and this thread was made. You don't just call somebody out for being a cheater after an occasional accusation without proof. Why don't you learn to read. Chill said he knew that he was a cheater, and that other people knew about this as well, hence the "sarcastic" comments of praise in his first guide, posted in May.
The sarcastic comments were to the second guide, which I said. That's why he was banned. Why would we keep him around for 6 months after proving he was a cheater?
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On December 07 2007 03:05 Chill wrote:
Okay dude, you are getting hung up on the most minor of details, so I'm going to be very specific with this reply and hopefully you'll be satisfied.
Early 2007: Someone told me he was a map rigger (I forget who). I had never played him.
Mid 2007: I met him online. Played him PvT. He used allied Mines on me and then talked shit when he lost. I never saw him online again.
~July-October: I heard about him releasing a replay on GG.net against... Idra? Artosis? Nony? Some media member where he rigged the replay. He claimed it was an accident.
Mid-November 2007: He asked for games on Hamachi, me and Zulu_Nation8 played him 4 games. He used a rigged map on all of us.
Late-November 2007: We asked the community for more rigged plays, now that we knew he is not only doing this is high-level games, but casual games against TL veteran members.
So did I "know" he was a map rigger before November. I guess so, but not indesputably and not first hand. I also didn't know the extent of his rigging.
Man....you said that you and others KNEW he was a map rigger when he posted his FIRST guide..in MAY
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
oh god this is still going on
the reason everyone trolled his first thread is because the guy is just so ridiculous, just look at it for christ's sake:
Super Pressure Style Guide to my Build Orders and Thoughts on what is going on.
Due to many people asking me to write a Super Pressure Oriented Terran Guide on wgt/gg.net/b.net, I have finally chosen to do so.
as for the cheating, nony caught lastshadow using rigged maps months ago, but it was dismissed as an accident. it was something that people might have heard about randomly, but not a big issue.
what i'm curious about is why you're so hellbent on exposing chill as some piece of shit lying mod, people make mistakes alright? who cares if he gets the timeline mixed up a bit - there's no conspiracy here man. find something better to nitpick about please =| (i suggest this thread: http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=63465)
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TL.Net is so gay sometimes.
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EPT
