• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:17
CET 00:17
KST 08:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada3SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1303 users

[ASL6] Finals Analysis - God is Dead - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
53 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
November 14 2018 11:56 GMT
#41
I, for one, also really dislike the way this Flash loss is handled, specifically by BigFan. If it was just a random user I would have let it go long time ago as a fan of Flash trying to find excuses why his player lost. Bad play in game 4, nerves, whatever.

Kind of the same feeling I always have had whenever JD play against Flash. JD always "seems" to be making bad decisions and mismicro, but as has been proven Flash makes him do this because Flash knows how to counter JD and make him look bad. But I am a fanboy of JD, so I have had a really hard time acknowledging the fact that Flash just plays better than him, even though to me it very often seems like JD makes mistakes against Flash.



ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-14 15:52:31
November 14 2018 15:52 GMT
#42
On November 14 2018 03:35 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.


I don't agree. It's well known bigfan is, well, a big fan of Flash. He also acknowledget the level of play shown by effort. I think he sometimes feels the pain as a fan of Flash heavy when he loses, which is perfectly normal. People have their private player bias like you and me, even when they are editor in chief (;

If it was Bisu, i might be the one chalking it up to something but not his opponent!

On November 14 2018 04:59 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.

you should go back and read my comment on this mate. I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it. EffOrt got into Flash's head by the time game 5 came around, and it showed. I don't personally have a problem with game 5, I think EffOrt played well to counter what Flash threw at him, and Flash was already defeated mentally. Having said that, game 4's execution was terrible from Flash's side, no argument about it. Don't plan to write more on this as I've already wrote a lot as is, so pick at it as you like ^^


Sorry, reading back I should say that the post wasn't that serious an accusation and most of it was a joke to use a particular phrase as many times as I could. I thought my underlining would have communicated it.

Still, please don't state assumptions like "tough talk" influencing Flash unless Flash said it himself. It's true that the entire post wasn't garbage, but imagine if Martin Luther King giving his famous "I have a dream" speech and suddenly talking halfway about having a dream about getting it on with Marylin Monroe.

It affects the entire speech.
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
November 14 2018 16:23 GMT
#43
Majority of people thought Flash was invincible which I was okay with. But it was really annoying when I saw everyone saying Jaedong is better than Effort and that Effort had no chance to do well. Those guys are the same caliber so now this result is the proof. People were talking like Effort was a B-teamer. All in all it was very annoying, so this is karma.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 14 2018 19:24 GMT
#44
On November 14 2018 20:56 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I, for one, also really dislike the way this Flash loss is handled, specifically by BigFan. If it was just a random user I would have let it go long time ago as a fan of Flash trying to find excuses why his player lost. Bad play in game 4, nerves, whatever.

Kind of the same feeling I always have had whenever JD play against Flash. JD always "seems" to be making bad decisions and mismicro, but as has been proven Flash makes him do this because Flash knows how to counter JD and make him look bad. But I am a fanboy of JD, so I have had a really hard time acknowledging the fact that Flash just plays better than him, even though to me it very often seems like JD makes mistakes against Flash.




Well, I am entitled to my opinion like everyone else. Funny part is, I've complimented EffOrt's game in pretty much every single post I've written, since I realize it's not easy to perform against the GOAT, yet somehow speculating that Flash was nervous or that he had subpar execution in a single game out of five somehow made the experience that much worse?

+ Show Spoiler +
First off, congrats to EffOrt on the win.

+ Show Spoiler +
So, yes, the victory was well deserved, but in some games, it felt like Flash didn't play like himself. Maybe he was a bit nervous, felt like it when watching the interview early on. He also kept sticking to the same idea. He knows that EffOrt knows this, and kept going at it. The Flash I know wouldn't try to be that predictive imo... Anyways, congrats to him again. Hopefully he doesn't fade away like he did after VANT.

+ Show Spoiler +
I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it.


At this point, I'm ducking out of this conversation. People are free to believe what they like. Seeing as Flash will be going to the military soon, and we've been hearing the whole Tesagi talk pop up again, this was a decent end to quiet things down again.The next test will be to see what EffOrt does next, and if he can maintain his form.

On November 15 2018 00:52 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 03:35 Cele wrote:
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.


I don't agree. It's well known bigfan is, well, a big fan of Flash. He also acknowledget the level of play shown by effort. I think he sometimes feels the pain as a fan of Flash heavy when he loses, which is perfectly normal. People have their private player bias like you and me, even when they are editor in chief (;

If it was Bisu, i might be the one chalking it up to something but not his opponent!

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 04:59 BigFan wrote:
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.

you should go back and read my comment on this mate. I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it. EffOrt got into Flash's head by the time game 5 came around, and it showed. I don't personally have a problem with game 5, I think EffOrt played well to counter what Flash threw at him, and Flash was already defeated mentally. Having said that, game 4's execution was terrible from Flash's side, no argument about it. Don't plan to write more on this as I've already wrote a lot as is, so pick at it as you like ^^


Sorry, reading back I should say that the post wasn't that serious an accusation and most of it was a joke to use a particular phrase as many times as I could. I thought my underlining would have communicated it.

Still, please don't state assumptions like "tough talk" influencing Flash unless Flash said it himself. It's true that the entire post wasn't garbage, but imagine if Martin Luther King giving his famous "I have a dream" speech and suddenly talking halfway about having a dream about getting it on with Marylin Monroe.

It affects the entire speech.

Fair enough, remove the tough talk stuff if you like. It was merely a quick comment that I made. From my perspective, and yes I'm speculating, Flash seemed nervous facing EffOrt, more so than usual. Whether that started affecting him later, or earlier is anyone's guess, but it was in full swing by the end.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
November 15 2018 07:07 GMT
#45
Has Flash done a stream analysis of the games as he often does? Any link if so?
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
November 15 2018 07:19 GMT
#46
I don't know about Flash but Jaedong did some commentary


I don't understand korean though.
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
November 15 2018 12:42 GMT
#47
Immense analysis, love the dramatic Nietzschean tone. I think it really makes for a great storyline that a player like EffOrt who hasn't had the biggest success in the post-KeSpa era is still, after a decade, the achilles heel for the 3-time ASL champion and greatest of all time.
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
November 15 2018 12:43 GMT
#48
On November 15 2018 16:19 JieXian wrote:
I don't know about Flash but Jaedong did some commentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiBxE52etKo

I don't understand korean though.

JD is really into it at the start lol
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
November 15 2018 17:19 GMT
#49
I dont think flash coming in with a single game plan is really all that surprising-- hes done it before, notably going 14cc three times in a row against Jaedongs 9 pool, for instance. The ultimate weapon glitches sometimes, or so went the joke.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 17 2018 08:13 GMT
#50
Flash underwent serious arm surgery and was away from playing while recovering. I don't believe he's physically quite the same since, unfortunately. If that never happened, I'm convinced he would still be untouchable god tier. He deserves tons of respect that he can still make it to the very top after having undergone that.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
-visnu-
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia149 Posts
November 17 2018 13:25 GMT
#51
On November 12 2018 11:39 XenOsky wrote:
EffOrt = Nietzsche?


Jordan B Peterson.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
November 17 2018 19:20 GMT
#52
Thank you for analysis. I am just missing the explanation of how did Effort solve 1-1-1? So was it mind gaming and early aggression to put Flash into uncomfortable mental spot?
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-17 19:54:10
November 17 2018 19:51 GMT
#53
On November 17 2018 22:25 -visnu- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2018 11:39 XenOsky wrote:
EffOrt = Nietzsche?


Jordan B Peterson.


Well it depends on what you mean by "EffOrt" and what you mean by "Nietzsche"! Is EffOrt simply "Kim Jung Woo"? Is he the almighty Alien Zerg or the feminine manifestation of the chaos of Flash's spirituality? If it's the latter, what do you mean by spirituality?

Don't even get me started on Nietzsche, no it's not pronounced Nee-cher like knee jerk. You have to pronounce it well first to give him and most of all yourself the respect you all deserve.

- Jordan B Peterson
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
November 23 2018 22:45 GMT
#54
thanks for the writeup
ace hwaiting!!
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
PiGosaur Cup #55
CranKy Ducklings49
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 268
JuggernautJason138
ProTech125
SpeCial 77
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3951
Shuttle 693
Artosis 363
Counter-Strike
Foxcn129
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox809
AZ_Axe77
PPMD23
Other Games
summit1g8433
Grubby2909
shahzam513
Liquid`Hasu218
Skadoodle155
Maynarde120
ViBE90
C9.Mang072
fpsfer 3
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 78
• Hupsaiya 67
• musti20045 28
• Adnapsc2 11
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• HerbMon 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
• Azhi_Dahaki0
Dota 2
• Ler46
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2770
• TFBlade910
Other Games
• WagamamaTV359
• Shiphtur299
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 43m
OSC
12h 13m
Kung Fu Cup
12h 43m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
23h 43m
The PondCast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 12h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
3 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
4 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.