• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:45
CEST 11:45
KST 18:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon100Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Yamato Cup Series StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot Working 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 Ladder Syncronization issues and can't find games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group B [BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr -> DragOn vs StRyKeR [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9681 users

[ASL6] Finals Analysis - God is Dead - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
53 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
November 14 2018 11:56 GMT
#41
I, for one, also really dislike the way this Flash loss is handled, specifically by BigFan. If it was just a random user I would have let it go long time ago as a fan of Flash trying to find excuses why his player lost. Bad play in game 4, nerves, whatever.

Kind of the same feeling I always have had whenever JD play against Flash. JD always "seems" to be making bad decisions and mismicro, but as has been proven Flash makes him do this because Flash knows how to counter JD and make him look bad. But I am a fanboy of JD, so I have had a really hard time acknowledging the fact that Flash just plays better than him, even though to me it very often seems like JD makes mistakes against Flash.



ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-14 15:52:31
November 14 2018 15:52 GMT
#42
On November 14 2018 03:35 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.


I don't agree. It's well known bigfan is, well, a big fan of Flash. He also acknowledget the level of play shown by effort. I think he sometimes feels the pain as a fan of Flash heavy when he loses, which is perfectly normal. People have their private player bias like you and me, even when they are editor in chief (;

If it was Bisu, i might be the one chalking it up to something but not his opponent!

On November 14 2018 04:59 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.

you should go back and read my comment on this mate. I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it. EffOrt got into Flash's head by the time game 5 came around, and it showed. I don't personally have a problem with game 5, I think EffOrt played well to counter what Flash threw at him, and Flash was already defeated mentally. Having said that, game 4's execution was terrible from Flash's side, no argument about it. Don't plan to write more on this as I've already wrote a lot as is, so pick at it as you like ^^


Sorry, reading back I should say that the post wasn't that serious an accusation and most of it was a joke to use a particular phrase as many times as I could. I thought my underlining would have communicated it.

Still, please don't state assumptions like "tough talk" influencing Flash unless Flash said it himself. It's true that the entire post wasn't garbage, but imagine if Martin Luther King giving his famous "I have a dream" speech and suddenly talking halfway about having a dream about getting it on with Marylin Monroe.

It affects the entire speech.
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
November 14 2018 16:23 GMT
#43
Majority of people thought Flash was invincible which I was okay with. But it was really annoying when I saw everyone saying Jaedong is better than Effort and that Effort had no chance to do well. Those guys are the same caliber so now this result is the proof. People were talking like Effort was a B-teamer. All in all it was very annoying, so this is karma.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 14 2018 19:24 GMT
#44
On November 14 2018 20:56 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I, for one, also really dislike the way this Flash loss is handled, specifically by BigFan. If it was just a random user I would have let it go long time ago as a fan of Flash trying to find excuses why his player lost. Bad play in game 4, nerves, whatever.

Kind of the same feeling I always have had whenever JD play against Flash. JD always "seems" to be making bad decisions and mismicro, but as has been proven Flash makes him do this because Flash knows how to counter JD and make him look bad. But I am a fanboy of JD, so I have had a really hard time acknowledging the fact that Flash just plays better than him, even though to me it very often seems like JD makes mistakes against Flash.




Well, I am entitled to my opinion like everyone else. Funny part is, I've complimented EffOrt's game in pretty much every single post I've written, since I realize it's not easy to perform against the GOAT, yet somehow speculating that Flash was nervous or that he had subpar execution in a single game out of five somehow made the experience that much worse?

+ Show Spoiler +
First off, congrats to EffOrt on the win.

+ Show Spoiler +
So, yes, the victory was well deserved, but in some games, it felt like Flash didn't play like himself. Maybe he was a bit nervous, felt like it when watching the interview early on. He also kept sticking to the same idea. He knows that EffOrt knows this, and kept going at it. The Flash I know wouldn't try to be that predictive imo... Anyways, congrats to him again. Hopefully he doesn't fade away like he did after VANT.

+ Show Spoiler +
I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it.


At this point, I'm ducking out of this conversation. People are free to believe what they like. Seeing as Flash will be going to the military soon, and we've been hearing the whole Tesagi talk pop up again, this was a decent end to quiet things down again.The next test will be to see what EffOrt does next, and if he can maintain his form.

On November 15 2018 00:52 JieXian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 03:35 Cele wrote:
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.


I don't agree. It's well known bigfan is, well, a big fan of Flash. He also acknowledget the level of play shown by effort. I think he sometimes feels the pain as a fan of Flash heavy when he loses, which is perfectly normal. People have their private player bias like you and me, even when they are editor in chief (;

If it was Bisu, i might be the one chalking it up to something but not his opponent!

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2018 04:59 BigFan wrote:
On November 14 2018 01:13 JieXian wrote:
On November 13 2018 22:52 Cele wrote:
Let's just agree the better player [on that day] won. It is as simple as that. Going into the rabbit hole of bringing up wrist pain, nerves, nervous bowels or w/e if your favorite player loses is not the way to go.


Yes, and chalking it up to "tough talk" influencing Flash? He's Flash for god's sake. People should acknowledge the level of thought and skill displayed by both players out of respect. Like Pauline said, Effort's defense in G5 was outstanding, any other Zerg might have died there.

I find Mr Fan's comment to be out of line and highly questionable.

you should go back and read my comment on this mate. I respect EffOrt for the skills shown, but it was clear that Flash was nervous as well, and that double science facility proves it. EffOrt got into Flash's head by the time game 5 came around, and it showed. I don't personally have a problem with game 5, I think EffOrt played well to counter what Flash threw at him, and Flash was already defeated mentally. Having said that, game 4's execution was terrible from Flash's side, no argument about it. Don't plan to write more on this as I've already wrote a lot as is, so pick at it as you like ^^


Sorry, reading back I should say that the post wasn't that serious an accusation and most of it was a joke to use a particular phrase as many times as I could. I thought my underlining would have communicated it.

Still, please don't state assumptions like "tough talk" influencing Flash unless Flash said it himself. It's true that the entire post wasn't garbage, but imagine if Martin Luther King giving his famous "I have a dream" speech and suddenly talking halfway about having a dream about getting it on with Marylin Monroe.

It affects the entire speech.

Fair enough, remove the tough talk stuff if you like. It was merely a quick comment that I made. From my perspective, and yes I'm speculating, Flash seemed nervous facing EffOrt, more so than usual. Whether that started affecting him later, or earlier is anyone's guess, but it was in full swing by the end.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
November 15 2018 07:07 GMT
#45
Has Flash done a stream analysis of the games as he often does? Any link if so?
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
November 15 2018 07:19 GMT
#46
I don't know about Flash but Jaedong did some commentary


I don't understand korean though.
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
November 15 2018 12:42 GMT
#47
Immense analysis, love the dramatic Nietzschean tone. I think it really makes for a great storyline that a player like EffOrt who hasn't had the biggest success in the post-KeSpa era is still, after a decade, the achilles heel for the 3-time ASL champion and greatest of all time.
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
November 15 2018 12:43 GMT
#48
On November 15 2018 16:19 JieXian wrote:
I don't know about Flash but Jaedong did some commentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiBxE52etKo

I don't understand korean though.

JD is really into it at the start lol
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
November 15 2018 17:19 GMT
#49
I dont think flash coming in with a single game plan is really all that surprising-- hes done it before, notably going 14cc three times in a row against Jaedongs 9 pool, for instance. The ultimate weapon glitches sometimes, or so went the joke.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 17 2018 08:13 GMT
#50
Flash underwent serious arm surgery and was away from playing while recovering. I don't believe he's physically quite the same since, unfortunately. If that never happened, I'm convinced he would still be untouchable god tier. He deserves tons of respect that he can still make it to the very top after having undergone that.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
-visnu-
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia149 Posts
November 17 2018 13:25 GMT
#51
On November 12 2018 11:39 XenOsky wrote:
EffOrt = Nietzsche?


Jordan B Peterson.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
November 17 2018 19:20 GMT
#52
Thank you for analysis. I am just missing the explanation of how did Effort solve 1-1-1? So was it mind gaming and early aggression to put Flash into uncomfortable mental spot?
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-17 19:54:10
November 17 2018 19:51 GMT
#53
On November 17 2018 22:25 -visnu- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2018 11:39 XenOsky wrote:
EffOrt = Nietzsche?


Jordan B Peterson.


Well it depends on what you mean by "EffOrt" and what you mean by "Nietzsche"! Is EffOrt simply "Kim Jung Woo"? Is he the almighty Alien Zerg or the feminine manifestation of the chaos of Flash's spirituality? If it's the latter, what do you mean by spirituality?

Don't even get me started on Nietzsche, no it's not pronounced Nee-cher like knee jerk. You have to pronounce it well first to give him and most of all yourself the respect you all deserve.

- Jordan B Peterson
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
November 23 2018 22:45 GMT
#54
thanks for the writeup
ace hwaiting!!
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 1473
Hyuk 1169
Barracks 570
Leta 542
actioN 287
firebathero 250
PianO 201
Soma 151
Dewaltoss 114
ZerO 102
[ Show more ]
Sharp 87
Mong 54
Hm[arnc] 25
Aegong 23
zelot 16
Terrorterran 14
NaDa 13
Noble 13
yabsab 11
JulyZerg 10
HiyA 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5251
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr46
Other Games
XaKoH 194
Happy180
crisheroes152
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8316
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1772
Other Games
gamesdonequick615
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH390
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• WagamamaTV216
Upcoming Events
GSL
1h 16m
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5h 16m
Spirit vs Mixu
BSL
9h 16m
Ret vs TerrOr
DragOn vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
14h 16m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

K-JUNGMAN
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.