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9070 Posts
Checking out the current ELO standings you will most likely notice that Flash and Bisu are very close to each other, both above the 2300. KTY held the number 1 spot for quite a long time now, I guess since november 2008 and storks decline...
Tonight the little monster Flash will do whatever it takes to dethrone the revolutionist from the elo ranking. But thats not so important.
After watching both flash and KTY in action last week, I realized a simple truth. Bisu is very very strong right now, he is absolutely playing the sc of his life. But he is slowly losing the momentum, he is reaching if not reached already the point where he cant do any better. His remarkable preparation skills for a long series are really caring the revolutionist to big achievements recently.
But he just cant put it all together. His PvP is the very best in the scene by a considerable gap, but in pvt and especially pvz, there is still some disturbing feeling of doubt that he may drop the soap.
But Flash is something else. His confidence and skills in all 3 MUs are a true sign of his limitless potential. And after the last 2 games vs his rival JD, you can clearly say that Flash is not afraid of the Legend Killer, JD is not the mind barrier he was before. I think I already know what Bisu can do if he plays on his top, but I believe Flash's limits are yet to be seen...
Both are dominating in some way, but it will be harder for Bisu to keep up. And I think the problem is his style, its the tool to take down every single player in BoX but its not quite suitable for everyday usage, he cant play like that 6 times a week. I'm really looking forward to the possible clash of Bisu and Flash in some stage of the OSL...
GL to both of them
  
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Baa?21242 Posts
Bisu's PvP is weaker than Best's PvP. [/nitpick]
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51443 Posts
but best's pvp is not what it was 9 months ago, that's for sure.
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Flash is very, very smart. If we had starcraft prodigies, he'd have definitely been one.
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On February 15 2009 09:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Bisu's PvP is weaker than Best's PvP. [/nitpick]
I'd be very surprised if this was still the case.
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im suprised bests pvp was even as good as it was considering his horrid shuttle control
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9070 Posts
Best and Bisu's PvP records for the past like as you said 8-9 months are very similar. I dont know why ppl got the feeling that DJW's is better, maybe because of the streak. But seriously KTY lost like hmm 6 games in total for the hole period.
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I get a different feeling from Bisu and Flash. Bisu seems really really good to me, but Flash is an unstoppable machine. I think Flash has more potential with his age and relatively recent appearance in the pro scene.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
I don't like flash at all.
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On February 15 2009 11:25 Clasic wrote:
I don't like flash at all.
go read his interviews
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Baa?21242 Posts
I got nothing against Flash personally, I just hate his style. Too conservative, hardly ever any aggression and fast paced play ^^;;
Instead of utilizing his twitchy APM to attack like a madman (-coughJaedongcough-), he uses it to turtle like a motherfucker =O
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Katowice25012 Posts
On February 15 2009 09:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Bisu's PvP is weaker than Best's PvP. [/nitpick]
You haven't seen best play in many months have you 
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Baa?21242 Posts
I can always play the "Best's just slumping, he'll be back" card.
Not sure how accurate it is, I'll wait and see how he does in this starleague I guess...
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When flash plays at his best, I'm always totally in awe of how fucking good he is. I don't really get that feeling from any other player.
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United States12607 Posts
On February 15 2009 12:22 Ideas wrote:
When flash plays at his best, I'm always totally in awe of how fucking good he is. I don't really get that feeling from any other player.
You don't get that from Bisu? Think back to his MSL series vs. firebathero, for example.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Whhhhaaaat?!?
How can people say Bisu's PvP is worse than BeSt's?
Bisu's PvP and PvT is far, far better than BeSt's (atleast now)
I just wish his PvZ isn't wtf.
And people saying "FLASH TURTLES WTFFF"
No seriously, how the FUCK CAN YOU WIN IN MEDUSA WITHOUT TURTLING?
Tell me you starcraft pros, how the fuck can he win in Medusa excluding a cheese/2fac in medusa?!
A turtle + timing push is the only viable strat for a terran against toss in medusa, but even that is considered a huge risk. Flash is aggressive when he wants to be and passive when he wants to be, you can tell from watching the games he produced these days.
On February 15 2009 11:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I got nothing against Flash personally, I just hate his style. Too conservative, hardly ever any aggression and fast paced play ^^;;
You know whats ironic? "Speed is for Flash" is what they call him in Korea
Flash's timing pushes and etc are much much faster than other players. He tries to get everything done asap so he can throw his opponent off just a little bit more with his couple second faster timing pushes.
Flash is a very smart player. True he isn't flashy and much more fun oriented for the bigger crowd, but what amazes me about him (and others) is that how he tries to do every little thing possible, and tries to get the best out of everything. And his resource management is really good.
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On February 15 2009 11:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I got nothing against Flash personally, I just hate his style. Too conservative, hardly ever any aggression and fast paced play ^^;;
Instead of utilizing his twitchy APM to attack like a madman (-coughJaedongcough-), he uses it to turtle like a motherfucker =O
In my view, Flash is just a very very smart player, especially now that he's gotten over the 14cc phase. Against any lesser player, he knows that he's basically guaranteed a win if he turtles and timing pushes, as his pushes are impeccable and he's unstoppable late-game. Why would he do anything else then? And when he plays the really top-level of Starcraft players, he does everything and anything needed to win, from turtling like mad to balls-out crazy aggression.
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On February 15 2009 12:53 jwd241224 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2009 12:22 Ideas wrote:
When flash plays at his best, I'm always totally in awe of how fucking good he is. I don't really get that feeling from any other player. You don't get that from Bisu? Think back to his MSL series vs. firebathero, for example.
No I don't. his whole MSL run seemed to me like almost ANY protoss in that slot would of made it to the final(beat FBH and a slumping Hwasin and Free who sucks at PvP).
Bisu's play never really amazes me, he seems to be like every other top tier protoss, just manages to not fuck stuff up as much(although I do admit that his multitasking is a lot better than most protoss players).
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On February 15 2009 13:38 theonemephisto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2009 11:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I got nothing against Flash personally, I just hate his style. Too conservative, hardly ever any aggression and fast paced play ^^;;
Instead of utilizing his twitchy APM to attack like a madman (-coughJaedongcough-), he uses it to turtle like a motherfucker =O In my view, Flash is just a very very smart player, especially now that he's gotten over the 14cc phase. Against any lesser player, he knows that he's basically guaranteed a win if he turtles and timing pushes, as his pushes are impeccable and he's unstoppable late-game. Why would he do anything else then? And when he plays the really top-level of Starcraft players, he does everything and anything needed to win, from turtling like mad to balls-out crazy aggression.
once in a while he has a really cute strat or cheese. Actually whenever flash has a good cheese (like vs bisu on medusa from incruit OSL or vs ggplay on plasma) it's usually REALLY cool to watch, even if he loses (like vs ggplay lol).
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On February 15 2009 14:14 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2009 12:53 jwd241224 wrote:On February 15 2009 12:22 Ideas wrote:
When flash plays at his best, I'm always totally in awe of how fucking good he is. I don't really get that feeling from any other player. You don't get that from Bisu? Think back to his MSL series vs. firebathero, for example. No I don't. his whole MSL run seemed to me like almost ANY protoss in that slot would of made it to the final(beat FBH and a slumping Hwasin and Free who sucks at PvP). Bisu's play never really amazes me, he seems to be like every other top tier protoss, just manages to not fuck stuff up as much(although I do admit that his multitasking is a lot better than most protoss players).
I always get that feeling when the camera can't keep up with Bisu's multitasking.
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How can someone not like Bisu or Flash or Jaedong. They are the best of the best in their race and take their specific race to its limits while playing it.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On February 15 2009 14:54 Yaqoob wrote:
How can someone not like Bisu or Flash or Jaedong. They are the best of the best in their race and take their specific race to its limits while playing it.
Bisu Haters, ADD Boxer Micro Fans and Toss fanboys.
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i don't like bisu
he makes stupid groups and i just don't like him
he is sooo good though.
i love flash
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United States2186 Posts
Bisu's PvP and PvT are so far above anyone else right now given that Stork is cursed, but I think he's better anyway because Stork could never beat Flash anywhere near his best, while Bisu did. His PvZ is...who knows. We will in a week.
I hate this other stereotype too. Flash is the smartest player who takes the most risks. I would really love to see anyone else make their 4th cc while still on 2 facts on Medusa, or try to double expand with 1 fact on Destination. While every other Terran is losing with the same old garbage, Flash alone innovates new stuff.
I don't consider it turtling if you are able to trick your opponent to not attack you while you gobble up resources and upgrades with minimal defense. How is that not exciting to see him live on the edge like that? Look beyond the obvious picture: there's more to strategic genius and great plays in SC than cute cheese, flashy micro, and proxies. Not like Flash isn't good at that either though.
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they are both great players that have worked very hard and put a ridiculous amount of effort to get to where they are and where they will be. both have haters, both have fans.
though bisu is better looking imo
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I dunno what your concerns for bisu is, you say hes peaking but also say his PvZ have room for big improvement. You don`t think he can improve it while still keeping his PvT and PvP up to speed?
Just how has his PvT given you doubts lately? Because he made 1 mistake against light and let the scv scout his DT drop?
Why does it worry you that he drops games in proleague and can`t keep up with the winning 6 days a week style that Flash is using? At the end of the day hes bringing in the gold medals like noone else does, and that is where the real prestige lays and that is what makes you go down in history, not spotting some 80% winrate in Proleague.
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On February 15 2009 09:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Bisu's PvP is weaker than Best's PvP. [/nitpick]
I dont think so
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I'm a Bisu fan but..
Flash is a beast. You have to admit.. when it looks like he's lost he can make the most amazing comebacks. And he does it consistently which makes him seen more invincible than Bisu. Part of it is his game sense is soo good, but also terran is better at defense than either toss or zerg. Repair, especially to tanks & buildings, and SCVs having 20 more health than probes or drones is strong especially in the early game.
Hopefully they will continue to produce amazing games. I do agree with the OP though... it seems like Flash can still improve more than where he is at the moment. I can't really tell if it's partly the versatility of terran or that his game sense and skill can probably still improve... probably both.
My hope is that Bisu can step it up and take it to the next level as well... we'll see vs. Jaedong and in this OSL with some toss unfavorable maps.
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EPT
