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Over the past couple of days, I have had a thought that has kept me up at night. Now, I don't claim to be a brilliant philosopher, nor have I ever taken a degree in philosophy. However, I have read many works by Kant, Hume, Kierkegaard, Camus, etc. and have a pretty good general idea when it comes to philosophy.
Unfortunately, this is kind of hard to explain, but I will do my best. Now, before you were born you did not exist. The chance of your existence was virtually 0, but you came to exist. Once you die, you no longer exist. The situation returns to before you were born. However, could you exist again? Physically it is definitely possible, because it is possible for molecules to assemble themselves in the exact relative positions of your body. However, could you mentally exist again in the future because you return to step 0 and start over again? Because there is INFINITE time from now on, will you be recreated?
If it helps, I aliken it to the monkeys banging on typewriters recreating the entire works of Shakespeare.
And of course, I am assuming that time will be infinite (which is obviously not true to this point, because we would never reach this point in time right now if time were infinite).
I know there are a good number of intelligent, intellectual philosophers on TL. Help me evaluate if my reasoning is flawed. I apologize in advance for any confusion caused by my grammar mistakes, English is not my first language.
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You're assuming that your existence before you can remember is non-existant and also like an on/off switch, like you either exist or you don't, which you don't know.
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I believe so. I think that if you took every atom of a person, copied it onto a blueprint, then destroyed the person; then recreated the person from the blueprints with some sort of star trek-esque 'replicator', the resulting product would be identical in every possible which way. As to whether that would be, from a purely identity perspective, the same person; I would argue that they would, because their position in the world, use and capabilities would be identical, and all the identification methods we use to identify a person as being themselves would come up positive.
This issue has to tackle the concept of the 'soul' and the concept of consciousness, as well as identity. It is a HUGE issue! Of course, it's something that doesn't matter in the slightest, but it is always fun to think about it.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
put enough monkeys with typewriters in a room
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Belgium9946 Posts
Listen to HamerD. He's an expert on the future.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
it basically just comes down to whether or not you see the existence of the universe as infinite or not
if it is then you will live the same life you're living now again and it's already happened before
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Why do you make the assumption that the probability of your own existence before your birth was almost zero, when you believe that humans can physically exist again, assuming that all of the molecules can be reassembled with great precision and accuracy?
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Well the conditions around you would have to be replicated as well, as those pose significance towards the "physical" aspect of yourself as well as your mental existence and identity.
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On January 25 2009 06:50 HamerD wrote:
I believe so. I think that if you took every atom of a person, copied it onto a blueprint, then destroyed the person; then recreated the person from the blueprints with some sort of star trek-esque 'replicator', the resulting product would be identical in every possible which way.
That's exactly what the transporters do.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 25 2009 07:01 RaGe wrote:
Listen to HamerD. He's an expert on the future.
Hey, douche bag, don't be such a fucking Pisces.
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On January 25 2009 07:01 RaGe wrote:
Listen to HamerD. He's an expert on the future.
If I had to take a WILD shot in the dark rage, I'd say you are either an air sign or an aries. Aries because they are pugnacious cunts, or an air sign because they always fail @ opening their minds. You are like my ex...oh shit I just checked yes you are a libra. Fucking typical haha! Man...you will never get anything more than the most basic bread and butter facts
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On January 25 2009 06:50 HamerD wrote:
This issue has to tackle the concept of the 'soul' and the concept of consciousness, as well as identity. It is a HUGE issue! Of course, it's something that doesn't matter in the slightest, but it is always fun to think about it.
The concept of the soul is summed up nicely in Trial & Death of Socrates. I don't personally believe in this stuff as I believe in God but it's a very interesting and good read.
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On January 25 2009 07:01 Descent wrote:
Why do you make the assumption that the probability of your own existence before your birth was almost zero, when you believe that humans can physically exist again, assuming that all of the molecules can be reassembled with great precision and accuracy?
Monkeys Banging on typewriters, recreating the whole works of Shakespeare within infinite time.
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I'm charred as fuck ITT. Give em an inch...
I should find a better forum lol.
Btw like I said before the only two arguments AGAINST your question are a) that souls exist and the soul is differently created (unrandomly, as it were) from the rest of the matter that makes us up; and b) the specific quality of 'time created' is intrinsic to our identity.
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given that our time on earth is infinite then sure, technically there's a chance but the odds are very small
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On January 25 2009 07:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
given that our time on earth is infinite then sure, technically there's a chance but the odds are very small
Actually I'd say the odds are 100%. The limit of the probability of an even to occur in an infinite lapse of time tends to 100% infinite times regardless of the odds of it occurring in a fixed amount of time.
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Hungary11282 Posts
On January 25 2009 08:14 kemoryan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2009 07:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
given that our time on earth is infinite then sure, technically there's a chance but the odds are very small Actually I'd say the odds are 100%. The limit of the probability of an even to occur in an infinite lapse of time tends to 100% infinite times regardless of the odds of it occurring in a fixed amount of time.
This only works out if the universe is not heading for some kind of "end-state" from where no further movement can arise. It is very well possible that it would remain in that state for infinite time, once it has reached it (or maybe the definition of time wouldn't obtain anymore, making it a timeless final state)
Just to add further fuel to this discussion, this very issue is raised by Nietzsche (don't ask me where exactly), the eternal return of the same. It serves a therapeutic purpose rather than being a theory about reality. You are asked to imagine this being true (everything will happen once more, just as it has happened) and question yourself if you would be happy to repeat the life you are living at the moment. If not, change something.
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On January 25 2009 08:43 Aesop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2009 08:14 kemoryan wrote:On January 25 2009 07:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
given that our time on earth is infinite then sure, technically there's a chance but the odds are very small Actually I'd say the odds are 100%. The limit of the probability of an even to occur in an infinite lapse of time tends to 100% infinite times regardless of the odds of it occurring in a fixed amount of time. This only works out if the universe is not heading for some kind of "end-state"
On January 25 2009 07:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
given that our time on earth is infinite
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On January 25 2009 07:49 HamerD wrote:
I'm charred as fuck ITT. Give em an inch...
I should find a better forum lol.
Btw like I said before the only two arguments AGAINST your question are a) that souls exist and the soul is differently created (unrandomly, as it were) from the rest of the matter that makes us up; and b) the specific quality of 'time created' is intrinsic to our identity.
Well, I am assuming that souls are not made of separate "Godmatter" by systematically removing every possible way a soul can control the body (as a prospective med student, I'm fairly familiar with human anatomy). If the soul does exist, the soul is a very strange thing indeed (does the "soul" of a 70 year old Alzheimer's patient continue to have 70 year old Alzheimer's thoughts when it leaves the body?) Also, an assumption of a soul brings up an entirely new set of issues, including God, that for these purposes, make things unecessarily complicated.
Your second point is interesting. What is the point of creation/existence though (when the sperm and egg are created, or conception)? And if that point cannot be specifically defined, it might make the inherent "time created" null. I'll have to give it more thought, and come back to you.
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And of course, I am assuming that time will be infinite (which is obviously not true to this point, because we would never reach this point in time right now if time were infinite).
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EPT
