• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:20
CET 07:20
KST 15:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1607 users

Metagenius: Bischu's PvP on TdAltar

Blogs > Arcane86
Post a Reply
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
December 16 2011 15:09 GMT
#1
I’m going to start this with an admission of guilt: I love watching Protoss v. Protoss. Though currently Terran, my dark past as a randomer means the furious intensity of the early micro-battles gets my blood pumping. The game hangs in the balance on every stalker volley, every zealot slice.

This brings me to the IPL Team Arena Challenge, a Bo9 in team-all-kill format. The first series was between Slayers and Dignitas.

Clear favorites to start, Slayers opened with a B-team-Protoss player, Crank who quickly crushed his way through Merz and Killer. As the team just losing the round, Dignitas picked their next player to throw into the SlayerS meatgrinder: Bischu. As the new entrant, Bischu had map choice.

Entering a Protoss v. Protoss, Bischu made the most bizarre decision imaginable – he picked Tal’Darim Altar.

For those not familiar with the nuances (or lack thereof) of PvP, “volatile” doesn’t quite do justice to the meta-game. Hyperaggression is driven by both players having the warpgate mechanic and by static defense requiring a tech-sidestep. This leaves a minimal defender’s advantage. Even with a small choke and highground advantage, gateway aggression can smash face. With neither, the 4-Gate is King.

Enter Tal’Darim Altar
[image loading]
Big choke, no ramp - the worst of both worlds


It was as though Bischu knelt before the Xel’Naga, and prayed for a 4-gate, offering himself as a sacrifice. Does he really think he can win 4-gate v. 4-gate against a Korean Pro? Who does this man think he is?

[image loading]
A few characters come to mind


I watched with bated breath, awaiting the slaughter of Bischu.

Then this happened:
[image loading]


Gateway-robotics-gateway. Alas, this would only hasten his demise! Or so I thought.

Slowly, Bischu’s devious plan became clear. He had orchestrated a strictly Zealot-Immortal defense to deprive Crank of a 4-Gate-focused victory. The SlayerS second-stringer obliged with the full brutality of a 4-gate that he could bring to bear upon this middling Protoss from Dignitas. So sat in my mind the core question: Could Bischu really survive a 4-gate with this?

[image loading]
Come at me Bro!


With early probes chrono’d out, zealots held the line as immortals dished out pain with extreme prejudice, crumpling stalkers as though they were nothing more than paper mache. Crank's Zealots gave chase to the Immortals, seeking to tear their robotic hides asunder. But no, Crank ceded advantage engagement after engagement, until all was lost.

[image loading]
At this point, it's not a fair fight anymore.


Bischu metagamed the living hell out of Crank. While this SlayerS Protoss supplicated to King 4-Gate, Bischu crushed his crown.


*credit where credit is due: all screenshots are taken from the IPL VOD channel
link to VOD: http://www.youtube.com/user/IGNProLeague?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase#p/u/84/_XaYJ-3RTmE

****
There is no Cow Level
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
December 16 2011 15:26 GMT
#2
Made me go check out the vod ^_^ nice writeup!
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
December 16 2011 15:35 GMT
#3
No way...thats dam cool. Pvp is always fun to watch some crazy micro battles or someone go for something unorthodox and win.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
December 16 2011 15:44 GMT
#4
Haha, that's very cool EVERYONE who ever talks about TDA PvP is like 4gate 4gate 4gate, I guess throwing in a fast Immortal build would really screw up your opponent.

That said, I'm sure Chill would love this article's analysis of the metagame.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
December 16 2011 20:20 GMT
#5
Yeah man I love PvP... It's so unexplored that the matchup probably has the highest chance of showcasing some new "exotic" build at every main event... Cool read!
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
fcgog
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom876 Posts
December 16 2011 21:17 GMT
#6
Bischu man thats so smart breaking the Tal’Darim Altar metagame
Cham
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
797 Posts
December 16 2011 22:21 GMT
#7
Thanks for the share, I love that map but I have it marked off of my ladder just because of PvP. Maybe I'll be able to use it again!
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
December 17 2011 01:35 GMT
#8
I read this earlier and didn't comment but I can't allow this to die so quick. >_>

That's a really cool build and might finally allow me to un-veto Tal Darim ! Thanks for writing this, its really great ! ^_^
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1285 Posts
December 17 2011 01:53 GMT
#9
Many players still don't understand that zealots are the best tanks out there and immortals are the best single-dps anti-armour unit for protoss.

I'm not saying stalkers are bad, they are certainly more mobile and allows kiting, they are really a jack of all trades; not a strong dps, nor tank.
sup
Spray
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States402 Posts
December 18 2011 05:24 GMT
#10
OMG thanks for this post...i tried this build on ladder and it works wonderfully
HuK Fighting~~!
human_ko
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation676 Posts
December 18 2011 11:02 GMT
#11
wow really interesting build! I wonder what pros think about it
WOrd, yo.
human_ko
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation676 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-18 11:04:53
December 18 2011 11:04 GMT
#12
double post TT. detele this or sth
WOrd, yo.
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-11 06:21:32
January 11 2012 06:20 GMT
#13
I have added the build to liquipedia as well as my thoughts after much testing over christmas. Thanks for bringing attention to it, i watched it when it was originally broadcasted but then couldn't be bothered to follow it up until i read this.

Link to the wiki.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
WardiTV Mondays #62
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 192
SortOf 73
trigger 48
-ZergGirl 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Stork 787
Tasteless 210
Shine 138
NaDa 42
Bale 33
ZergMaN 12
Icarus 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm132
febbydoto32
League of Legends
JimRising 678
Other Games
summit1g10177
WinterStarcraft546
C9.Mang0367
ViBE138
Mew2King45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick776
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH110
• practicex 33
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki18
• Diggity3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1083
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 40m
OSC
9h 40m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
17h 40m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.