Need help ZvT

Ancient_Rage

United States203 Posts

February 01 2006 10:56 GMT

http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=30556

There is my latest rep. Two things I know I did wrong were:

1. Late Upgrades
2. No scourge to kill Science Vessels

Could anyone tell me any other mistakes?

Ancient_Rage

United States203 Posts

February 01 2006 11:12 GMT

-_- Anyone have any "real" advice?

Night[Mare

Mexico4793 Posts

February 01 2006 11:13 GMT

i dont have bw to watch rep, so it would be nice if you explain the game

Ancient_Rage

United States203 Posts

February 01 2006 11:17 GMT

Umm, lol. Dunno if I could describe it accurately T_T

YoUr_KiLLeR

United States3420 Posts

February 01 2006 12:52 GMT

hm, ill list things i see as the rep goes on.

first, your build order was a bit weird. you went 3 hatch but got your 3rd hatch a little bit late. usually you want it on 14 unless you know the terran is bunker rushing or something, then you'd want your drones to defend.

you put down 3 creep colonies extremely fast without knowing what he was doing. even in those positions where you find him quickly with your overlord, you might want to send a drone scout and keep it alive for a while in his base to see what he does. if you did, you would've seen that he didn't take his gas fast. this hints at a fast CC, in which you don't need 3 quick creep colonies because he won't be pressuring you that soon. also, after you've driven his scouting scv off, you want to leave some of your lings in front of his base to see when he moves out. eventually, the timing that he moves out at will also hint at his build order, whether he went fast CC or fast acad.

he then moved out with pure marines. you probably won't need a 4th sunken colony to stop this. just check to see if he has medics or anything coming. you could try running a ling around his rines and get up his ramp to see what hes doing. at the least you would've seen the fast CC. those sunkens severely hurt your drone count early.

your muta harass came extremely late, due to those very early sunken colonies. that coupled with his 3 raxes kinda negates your harass.

you were very low on drones through most of the early game. that simply won't keep up with a fast expoing terran. plus your tech ended up really late, so you weren't able to break out with lurkers fast enough to take another expo and even it out.

you lost half of your lurkers carelessly when you finally did break out.

you didn't bother attempting to expo after breaking out, then lost the rest of your lurkers.

i think your drop could've been much more effective if you moved the lurkers farther in when you first dropped, instead of leaving them out of range of the lone tank.

at this point, i dont think that min only expo at 12 will help you much.

i think you're right about the upgrades, i remember twisted or someone said it was important to upgrade vs fast expoing T. i think thats because the T will be pumping upgrades from 2 ebays.

you micro lurkerling with the wrong idea. you want to burrow a few of the lurkers in the front while running the rest closer to the marines instead of burrowing them all at once and having only 2 or 3 be in range of the marines.

overall, yes the late upgrades/lack of scourges did hurt you, but i think the main reason you lost that game was because you fell behind in macro very quickly and never caught up. your premature static defense really hurt your early drone count and slowed down your tech, which resulted in late and ineffective muta harass, which in turn didn't allow you to break out of the first marine contain and take another expo.

i'm not a great player, so dont take everything i say as fact, but i hope this helped.

alphaentity

United States525 Posts

February 01 2006 13:11 GMT

On February 01 2006 20:03 RuNei wrote:
Most important mistake, losing..

To correct: Try winning.

RuNei, you are a fucking idiot trying too hard to be funny.

On topic,

Your major mistake was scouting, you should have scouted him more to see fast expo, in which case u could have over run with lings early on.

Also, when he expanded to the 3 o clock position, u failed to scout that soon enough. Tip: leave a zergling to patrol expo positions and try to cover as much space as u can with overlords.

If you saw the first expo going up, and saw the 3oclock attempt early enough, that would have won you the game.

Work on macro, at one point u had 7000+ minerals...try to throw down hatcheries BEFORE you get that much money ( u usually get a feel of cash flow with more games)...in this game, once u saw so much mineral u should have thrown down like 4-5 hatches.

Also, iresearch burrow when the terran does the SV irradiate things, so that you can just burrow ur drones when he's trying to be gay.

Also, in my opinion, if you didn't leave the game, you could have won. That last attack would have broken his expos, and u could have replenished ur drones alot more easier. Just stop his eco, then turtle like a whore for a bit for the win.

YoUr_KiLLeR

United States3420 Posts

February 01 2006 13:13 GMT

i think the game was lost by the point the terran had 3 and 3 nat.

and im not sure he would've won had he stayed in the game. i dont think it would've been possible to turtle vs that many BC

Ancient_Rage

United States203 Posts

February 02 2006 04:44 GMT

Thank you for the help^^ I will work on my scouting and macro more.

YoUr_KiLLeR

United States3420 Posts

February 06 2006 08:27 GMT

stfu, you're not funny at all.

decafchicken

United States20154 Posts

February 06 2006 08:40 GMT

#10

On February 06 2006 17:11 RuNei wrote:
No seriously, he should try winning.. thats some damn good advice.. hes lucky i didnt ask for a pension for it.. -.-

haahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
No.

XDawn

Canada4040 Posts

February 06 2006 08:44 GMT

#11

On February 06 2006 17:11 RuNei wrote:
No seriously, he should try winning.. thats some damn good advice.. hes lucky i didnt ask for a pension for it.. -.-

How about you stfu and don't even bother posting kthx

alffla

Hong Kong20321 Posts

February 06 2006 10:15 GMT

#12

On February 06 2006 17:44 XDawn wrote:

Show nested quote +

How about you stfu and don't even bother posting kthx

word

NovaTheFeared

United States7231 Posts

February 06 2006 11:47 GMT

#13

On February 06 2006 17:11 RuNei wrote:
No seriously, he should try winning.. thats some damn good advice.. hes lucky i didnt ask for a pension for it.. -.-

Stop trolling idiot. Once again may I have a:

ToT)MidiaN(

England2183 Posts

February 06 2006 20:42 GMT

#14

Your early game is terribly flawed. Your 3rd hatch was late, your overlord at 18/18 was late, you cancelled 3 drones at your expo so you could make 2 creep colonies that were of no use whatsoever, you lost an overlord for no reason whatsoever. You even made like 20 lings starting at like 27 supply leaving you with SFA drones + a bunch of useless lings + 4 sunkens.... Why did you do this again? You didn't use your lings to scout what he was doing, you failed to use your larva on drones early on, not only did you waste them on lings but most of the time you didn't make drones even when you had idle larva, spare supply and sufficient money and with no reason to save larvas. When you switched to lurker you made hydralisks before you even made lurker aspect, why would you do that? You're supposed to make drones until lurker aspect is around 50% complete then you can make hydras so that they hatch by the time lurker aspect is complete. In the early game you basically killed yourself by a) not scouting a jot and b) fucking your own economy up by being so incredibly scared of nothing. You made 3 overlords in the same hatchery before your spire finished (these were late too.. spire was finished but couldn't make muta yet..), you should've made 1 overlord on each hatchery so you have 9 larva to play with by the time spire finishes and not 6 or 7 or whatever you had like 5 seconds after spire finishes. Yours muta were wasted so badly, this was partly because mutas were at least 60 seconds late, literally, so he had more shit with which to defend it and partly because you ran them through a bunch of marines when you should've pulled out to the left. Your lurkers at 11 minutes or so just run into his forces and die before you can do any damage, and lurkers on their own are not really much good. Your lack of income meant you couldn't expand anywhere, at least not without skipping unit production, which wouldn't have been much use since you had no units EITHER. Somehow 13 minutes into the game you have 2000 minerals despite a low income. This maybe because you thought you didn't have map control and therefore couldn't expand without it dying, or simply just couldn't expand (and really you shouldn't have had map control since you did nothing to gain it...). Apparently you like to randomly make lings but you dunno what ling speed upgrade is. Your drops are really so late that you're having to put your entire forces into them to do any damage, in even then against anybody even semi competant you would've lost your entire forces and done absolutely NO damage. I watched the entire game with only your vision and not once did you attempt to restrict his movement or protect your expansions, to me this would often suggest you hack, but in this case i think it suggests you simply just don't have a clue what you're doing or why you're doing it. C'mon you had overlord speed so early in the game, and a 20 or so lings that were completely useless, the least you could've used those for is for scouting purposes. You have drop upgrades "soon", by soon i mean like 3 minutes too late to do damage against any terran beyond D- rank on pgtour, still you got it, but you didn't expand islands until 25 minutes despite apparently having no map control (you should've expanded to these the second you got drop upgrade if you thought you didn't have to option to expand on land). Even when you scouted 3 o clock you didn't make enough of an effort to kill those expansions, I believe you made one attack then sorta forgot about it, jesus you think you can beat terran 4 gas v 4 gas? You needed to put EVERYTHING into killing those expansions, or at least kill his main. You had no sense of emergency at all. Anyway I could ramble on for hours more but I think I've said enough, sorry if I sound harsh, I'm merely asking the questions that you should be asking yourself. "Why am I doing this?" is the most important thing to think about, unfortunately even I could not see why you were doing most of things you were doing, they were simply nonsensical. Anyway hope that helped a bit..

ToKoreaWithLove

Norway10161 Posts

February 06 2006 20:48 GMT

#15

Hahaha, that was a great read;)

ToT)MidiaN(

England2183 Posts

February 06 2006 20:49 GMT

#16

I just now read earlier advice and most of what i said your_killer also said, he was right in everything he said. alphaentity on the other hand focuses on dealing with the situation as it is, whereas correct strategical advice would be to look at causes, not symptoms, i.e. you should've never been in the situation where you had 7000 minerals or when he'd already made a hidden expansion at 3 o clock.

NovaTheFeared

United States7231 Posts

February 06 2006 20:58 GMT

#17

That was a good summary filled with tips on the whole of the game, but is it too much to ask for a paragraph break?

YoUr_KiLLeR

United States3420 Posts

February 06 2006 22:31 GMT

#18

might be the harshest post i've ever seen from midian =P

Not_Banned

United States158 Posts

February 07 2006 08:19 GMT

#19

Hmmmm wow .... Very bad decision making in the early game.... Taking the islands was a good idea and you could have easily raped terrans expo's at 3 and 4 multiple times which would have won you the game and if not then the bc's no problem cause throw up a defiler mound and in 3 minutes you have plague upgraded and plague + dra = Gg oh yes and very late grades :/

Ancient_Rage

United States203 Posts

February 07 2006 10:22 GMT

#20

I don't know why you people are bringing ths old post back up, I went back to Terran anyways.

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