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On May 15 2013 17:34 edgeOut wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:28 Dodgin wrote:On May 15 2013 17:23 edgeOut wrote:On May 15 2013 17:12 Dodgin wrote:
That's not an acceptable response, wading through shit in these threads is shit. Player bashing has always been against the rules, the rules just aren't enforced often enough. I don't care about kespa esf comparison posts, those are based on information or interesting opinion. If you say straight up " lol two esf players playing, low level series " that's not based on anything of value. If someone only posts in here to say things like that instead of talking about the games then they are contributing nothing to the community and are simply a cancer. They contribute things to make people here realize this world is not made of marshmallow. Grow up and fight, or get eaten. The you win, you live, you lose, you die mentality definitely applies to a forum dedicated to professional starcraft 2. No really it does, we're truly not all here to have fun discussing things related to professional Korean stacraft 2 with other users while we watch the games. Take a shot every time you can, make sure you let them know how bad all the players they like are. Why can't you guys have fun while fighting with other fans? It's part of every professional sports. It's Internet, for god's sake. Fighting on Internet is no comparison to fans in other sports do.
Mate, I tend to consider regular sport fans on the same intellectual level as cattle.
Do as you wish, but I think the best you can do is go play with yourself.
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On May 15 2013 17:34 edgeOut wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:28 Dodgin wrote:On May 15 2013 17:23 edgeOut wrote:On May 15 2013 17:12 Dodgin wrote:
That's not an acceptable response, wading through shit in these threads is shit. Player bashing has always been against the rules, the rules just aren't enforced often enough. I don't care about kespa esf comparison posts, those are based on information or interesting opinion. If you say straight up " lol two esf players playing, low level series " that's not based on anything of value. If someone only posts in here to say things like that instead of talking about the games then they are contributing nothing to the community and are simply a cancer. They contribute things to make people here realize this world is not made of marshmallow. Grow up and fight, or get eaten. The you win, you live, you lose, you die mentality definitely applies to a forum dedicated to professional starcraft 2. No really it does, we're truly not all here to have fun discussing things related to professional Korean stacraft 2 with other users while we watch the games. Take a shot every time you can, make sure you let them know how bad all the players they like are. Why can't you guys have fun while fighting with other fans? It's part of every professional sports. It's Internet, for god's sake. Fighting on Internet is no comparison to fans in other sports do.
I don't mind fighting, I enjoy SKT vs KT, IM vs ST and other such rivalries, what is happening here is not fighting.
This is a " fight " that doesn't make any sense, you are comparing two groups of 100+ players on each side. I'll put it in simple terms.
Team 8 is the worst Kespa team, they have 0 top players on their team. The reason is because they lack the talent and the infrastructure compared to Woongjin, SKT or KT. Nshoseo is the worst eSF team, they have similar problems but magnified much further. All of these arguments ignore the most important part, the Kespa teams are not all equal and they are most certainly not, as a group, all better than eSF teams. If you want to make comparisons then say something like " Woongjin stars players are the best in the world because they have the best practice facilities are training partners, as shown by them being #1 in Proleague by far. There is no chance that a eSF team can compare to them because of their lack of finances. "
That's an acceptable post, and it makes sense to me. Just don't group all of Kespa as one being, when It's not anything close to that.
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KeSPA? eSF? Pssh. I think it's pretty clear that the best group of players is all of the players who use multi-coloured keyboards. It won't be long until all of the monochrome scrubs are fetching coffees for LoL players.
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Yes, that is a good point. Besides, I think a far more interesting question than esf vs kespa is how well the BW skill translated into sc2: who became good and who disapeared in the kespa teams?
I wrote a somewhat chaotic post about that in the other thread:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 06:42 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:19 HolyArrow wrote:On May 15 2013 05:44 Elroi wrote:On May 15 2013 04:37 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 15 2013 04:04 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 15 2013 03:53 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 15 2013 03:14 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 15 2013 01:45 Sadness wrote:
Hello everyone, sorry for being late
- Elephant in the room No, just no. the real elephant in the room is that no one remembers what the article said they just want to reference it whenever kespa wins. Looks like you clearly don't know what the article means. It said the top BW players would dominate SC2. not 44% win rate sHy and 50% win rate RorO while Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaedong, etc dont compete for titles lol That's a complicated question, but I think very many BW fans if you asked them "who will be the best players one year from now?" would answear Bogus and Soulkey (and Rain if they knew how good he was). The most promising rookies and young players in BW are for a good part the best sc2 players today: sHy, Bogus, Sun... Of course, there are outliers (Roro...) and some promising rookies who didn't become as good in sc2 as they were looking to be in BW (Mini, Hon_Sin, Turn, Trap etc)... But there definitely is a good correlation between BW skill and sc2 skill I would say. It's convenient to say that now, but it's a little late since it's already been revealed who the good players are. If you showed me evidence that the players who are doing really well in SC2 right now were players that many BW fans were hyping up to be the future top talent of BW before Kespa players moved to SC2, then I'd be less skeptical. About Bogus and Soulkey, ask anybody really (they were both the aces of their PL teams...). Soulkey was even regarded by most as the best BW zerg in the world at the time of the switch to sc2. Rain was one of the strongest up and coming protosses, but only fans who followed the scene closely would know how good he was. At the same time: TBLS is not what they were (obviously, only Flash being s-class now), Roro was no way near the top in BW (he was a solid a-teamer, comparable to Mvp, not more) and some guys like herO[join] were more or less completely unknown. It is interesting to compare the prominent players before and after the switch in each of the kespa teams. It would look something like this I think (though I probably forgot about some players): KT: Flash/Stats/Wookie (BW) --> Flash/Stats (?)/Wookie (SC2) Khan: Stork/Jangbi/Reality (?) --> Jangbi/Roro/Reality (?) STX: Bogus/Calm/Trap --> Bogus/Trap T8: TY/Argo/Tyson (JD traded)-->TY/Argo/Cure WJS: Soulkey/Zero/Light --> Soulkey/sHy/Flying CJ: Effort/Hydra/Leta/Horang2--> Effort/Hydra/herO SKT: Bisu/Best/Fantasy --> Rain/Fantasy/soO (and Parting) (This is just to get you an idea, of course this is very debatable) Of all the new players that broke through in the KeSPA teams, only herO really came from nowhere, all the others were strong and known rookies. Some a-teamers (like Roro and Jaehoon) became really good, and some s-class players (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork) became regular a-team level players.
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On May 15 2013 17:48 Severian wrote:
KeSPA? eSF? Pssh. I think it's pretty clear that the best group of players is all of the players who use multi-coloured keyboards. It won't be long until all of the monochrome scrubs are fetching coffees for LoL players.
nu uh
 Booster
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400258
Kart Rider bonjwas 4tw. He'll easily dominate sc2. Plus he goes to school with Life...that has to mean something <_>
gg sc2 pros he's coming for your money
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On May 15 2013 17:48 Elroi wrote:Yes, that is a good point. Besides, I think a far more interesting question than esf vs kespa is how well the BW skill translated into sc2: who became good and who disapeared in the kespa teams? I wrote a somewhat chaotic post about that in the other thread: + Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 06:42 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:19 HolyArrow wrote:On May 15 2013 05:44 Elroi wrote:On May 15 2013 04:37 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 15 2013 04:04 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 15 2013 03:53 Shellshock1122 wrote:On May 15 2013 03:14 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 15 2013 01:45 Sadness wrote:
Hello everyone, sorry for being late
- Elephant in the room No, just no. the real elephant in the room is that no one remembers what the article said they just want to reference it whenever kespa wins. Looks like you clearly don't know what the article means. It said the top BW players would dominate SC2. not 44% win rate sHy and 50% win rate RorO while Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaedong, etc dont compete for titles lol That's a complicated question, but I think very many BW fans if you asked them "who will be the best players one year from now?" would answear Bogus and Soulkey (and Rain if they knew how good he was). The most promising rookies and young players in BW are for a good part the best sc2 players today: sHy, Bogus, Sun... Of course, there are outliers (Roro...) and some promising rookies who didn't become as good in sc2 as they were looking to be in BW (Mini, Hon_Sin, Turn, Trap etc)... But there definitely is a good correlation between BW skill and sc2 skill I would say. It's convenient to say that now, but it's a little late since it's already been revealed who the good players are. If you showed me evidence that the players who are doing really well in SC2 right now were players that many BW fans were hyping up to be the future top talent of BW before Kespa players moved to SC2, then I'd be less skeptical. About Bogus and Soulkey, ask anybody really (they were both the aces of their PL teams...). Soulkey was even regarded by most as the best BW zerg in the world at the time of the switch to sc2. Rain was one of the strongest up and coming protosses, but only fans who followed the scene closely would know how good he was. At the same time: TBLS is not what they were (obviously, only Flash being s-class now), Roro was no way near the top in BW (he was a solid a-teamer, comparable to Mvp, not more) and some guys like herO[join] were more or less completely unknown. It is interesting to compare the prominent players before and after the switch in each of the kespa teams. It would look something like this I think (though I probably forgot about some players): KT: Flash/Stats/Wookie (BW) --> Flash/Stats (?)/Wookie (SC2) Khan: Stork/Jangbi/Reality (?) --> Jangbi/Roro/Reality (?) STX: Bogus/Calm/Trap --> Bogus/Trap T8: TY/Argo/Tyson (JD traded)-->TY/Argo/Cure WJS: Soulkey/Zero/Light --> Soulkey/sHy/Flying CJ: Effort/Hydra/Leta/Horang2--> Effort/Hydra/herO SKT: Bisu/Best/Fantasy --> Rain/Fantasy/soO (and Parting) (This is just to get you an idea, of course this is very debatable) Of all the new players that broke through in the KeSPA teams, only herO really came from nowhere, all the others were strong and known rookies. Some a-teamers (like Roro and Jaehoon) became really good, and some s-class players (Bisu, Jaedong, Stork) became regular a-team level players.
So, to sum it up: players who were rising or on top of their play when the switch happened are mostly the top players fnow. Duh.
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For me one of the most interesting things is Fantasy's lack of progress compared to Bogus and Flash in sc2. In BW Fantasy's style was less macro and more micro based, you can see this in the TvT's vs Flash in the last year of BW where he would float resources but get better trades, and in the end win because of that. I feel like sc2 is more his game, but instead he's barely keeping at Code S level. He was clearly the best Terran for the last 8 months of BW, maybe more. Enough time has passed that you can exclude the argument that he switched later because of the last BW OSL finals. I really can't find any good reason for why he is not good enough, It's quite disappointing.
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life is going to make mkp his bitch boy for 2 games. 3 if he feels to extend the torment
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On May 15 2013 17:54 Dodgin wrote:
For me one of the most interesting things is Fantasy's lack of progress compared to Bogus and Flash in sc2. In BW Fantasy's style was less macro and more micro based, you can see this in the TvT's vs Flash in the last year of BW where he would float resources but get better trades, and in the end win because of that. I feel like sc2 is more his game, but instead he's barely keeping at Code S level. He was clearly the best Terran for the last 8 months of BW, maybe more. Enough time has passed that you can exclude the argument that he switched later because of the last BW OSL finals. I really can't find any good reason for why he is not good enough, It's quite disappointing.
This. Fantasy was my prediction for best kespa player going into HotS. He should be Bogus.
I guess he will forever dwell in the shadow of Flash..
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On May 15 2013 17:56 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_3c_5SVBM
uncontested today, it seems.
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On May 15 2013 17:54 Dodgin wrote:
For me one of the most interesting things is Fantasy's lack of progress compared to Bogus and Flash in sc2. In BW Fantasy's style was less macro and more micro based, you can see this in the TvT's vs Flash in the last year of BW where he would float resources but get better trades, and in the end win because of that. I feel like sc2 is more his game, but instead he's barely keeping at Code S level. He was clearly the best Terran for the last 8 months of BW, maybe more. Enough time has passed that you can exclude the argument that he switched later because of the last BW OSL finals. I really can't find any good reason for why he is not good enough, It's quite disappointing.
I blame the lack of vultures in this game.
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Flash and then Life, those 2 have to regret their group selection ceremony...
And, rooting for Effort to make it through!
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On May 15 2013 17:57 Wintex wrote:uncontested today, it seems.
but she missed 9Muses :O
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On May 15 2013 17:58 YpnotiS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:57 Wintex wrote:On May 15 2013 17:56 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_3c_5SVBM uncontested today, it seems. but she missed 9Muses :O
I wasn't on ! Was it Wild or Dolls?
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On May 15 2013 17:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 17:58 YpnotiS wrote:On May 15 2013 17:57 Wintex wrote:On May 15 2013 17:56 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:+ Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_3c_5SVBM uncontested today, it seems. but she missed 9Muses :O I wasn't on ! Was it Wild or Dolls?
Wild
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EPT
