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On December 30 2012 16:30 Caihead wrote:
what's with kespa players and their reluctance to just wall off the natural with spine / queen / evo?
Because queens
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On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time
It is hard to say. We just have seen enough of some Kespa players. For example, Stats is 4-0 in PL. hard to say what level he is.
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this ZvZ has been so sick
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On December 30 2012 16:30 Thinasy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:30 Dodgin wrote:On December 30 2012 16:27 Thinasy wrote:On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time Hmm, yeah i'd agree on the list, really unsure about bbyong tho I havent seen him play that many games so far, jaedong is just so sloppy 50% of the time atm I included bbyong because he made it from code b > a > s for 2012 season 5, dunno if he's still actually playing at code s level. we'll see soon in the up/downs. Really? thats really impressive
yeah, he made it into code a in the season 4 prelims, then won three straight series' to make it to code s without up/downs, but he lost early in ro32 in the next season. to be fair his group was Mvp, Creator and Dongraegu.
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On December 30 2012 16:32 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:30 Thinasy wrote:On December 30 2012 16:30 Dodgin wrote:On December 30 2012 16:27 Thinasy wrote:On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time Hmm, yeah i'd agree on the list, really unsure about bbyong tho I havent seen him play that many games so far, jaedong is just so sloppy 50% of the time atm I included bbyong because he made it from code b > a > s for 2012 season 5, dunno if he's still actually playing at code s level. we'll see soon in the up/downs. Really? thats really impressive yeah, he made it into code a in the season 4 prelims, then won three straight series' to make it to code s without up/downs, but he lost early in ro32 in the next season. to be fair his group was Mvp, Creator and Dongraegu.
Oh right that grp...
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On December 30 2012 16:26 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:22 Caihead wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 16:16 Caihead wrote:On December 30 2012 16:14 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
[quote]
Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1
Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby
Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs
I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that? Yes, if you look at results. There are 50 players in code S/Up and Downs. With 11 Kespa players and 30+ eSF players. Can the Kespa player take games off the eSF player? Sure. But so can the 30th rank foreigner. But overall, I would say the 30th eSF is the overall better player. "Taking games off" isn't indicative of anything. Combatex took a game off Parting in a Bo3. It's a poor standard to judge things by. Did you read my post at all? Given a high enough sampling size anybody with in reasonable range of skill level can take games over each other, it's the win rate that matters. We don't have a big sampling size with esf / Kespa so speculation isn't relevant. Even some random masters players can "take a game" off these guys, they didn't have perfect records going up to gm in ladder. I did read your post, it's just not a good example. Is Hero / Taeja top 30 esf? I would think so, they don't have perfect records. That is why I said the 30th eSF is the better overall player... I just said the take games off example in case people came here and say that Dear beat HerO which shows the 30th Kespa player is better than 30th eSF.
That's not actually provable though, I remember watching life play in non gsl / prelims and thinking this guy might make it big one day then boom GSL champion and best zerg in the world. Before those few months no one even knew who he was. With Kespa it's the same deal, Hero[join] was a b-teamer and completely uninspired, who knows whom out of the people on the rosters are actually top 30, they might not even get play time just because of planning.
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On December 30 2012 16:30 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:26 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 16:23 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 30 2012 16:18 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 16:16 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 30 2012 16:01 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face. It doesnt change my point :D I dont see a bad player in this ST lineup :D lists 5 Code S level players from ST then says T8 would beat them Wat? In PL format, ofc. Assuming we take it by current player status, as long as baby got matched up against parting/curious and Jaehoon avoided bomber, Ryul2, speed, or terminator could take a game off of whoever is left. Terminator v Squirtle would be a pretty decent toss-up, with preparation ryul2 could come close against life or take out hack, and Speed could just pull a bravo and cheese. And alone could sixpool for the hell of it ^^ You're grasping at straws homie. Baby and Jaehoon are 2/3 wins needed for an ace match, and they get 4 more tries to get an ace-speed and terminator have both performed semi-well in Code A. Startale's lineup is fearsome in GSTL format-but in proleague I wouldn't name them the clear favorites because snipers.
Baby lost to hon_sin today... You make it like Baby and Jaehoon are guarantee wins...
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On December 30 2012 16:31 Thinasy wrote:
GG, Shine sucks at ZvZ
Shine used to be good in ZvZ during broodwar..
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On December 30 2012 16:34 Sawamura wrote:Shine used to be good in ZvZ during broodwar..
Might have spoken too soon
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if shine loses this he's 0-5 this season
worse than bisu!
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No way Shine is going to win. EffOrt is in control of this shit.
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On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time
Add baby
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On December 30 2012 16:35 Dodgin wrote:
if shine loses this he's 0-5 this season
worse than bisu!
Says alot why KHAN has been doing so badly.
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On December 30 2012 16:34 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:26 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 16:22 Caihead wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 16:16 Caihead wrote:On December 30 2012 16:14 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:
[quote]
I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that? Yes, if you look at results. There are 50 players in code S/Up and Downs. With 11 Kespa players and 30+ eSF players. Can the Kespa player take games off the eSF player? Sure. But so can the 30th rank foreigner. But overall, I would say the 30th eSF is the overall better player. "Taking games off" isn't indicative of anything. Combatex took a game off Parting in a Bo3. It's a poor standard to judge things by. Did you read my post at all? Given a high enough sampling size anybody with in reasonable range of skill level can take games over each other, it's the win rate that matters. We don't have a big sampling size with esf / Kespa so speculation isn't relevant. Even some random masters players can "take a game" off these guys, they didn't have perfect records going up to gm in ladder. I did read your post, it's just not a good example. Is Hero / Taeja top 30 esf? I would think so, they don't have perfect records. That is why I said the 30th eSF is the better overall player... I just said the take games off example in case people came here and say that Dear beat HerO which shows the 30th Kespa player is better than 30th eSF. That's not actually provable though, I remember watching life play in non gsl / prelims and thinking this guy might make it big one day then boom GSL champion and best zerg in the world. Before those few months no one even knew who he was. With Kespa it's the same deal, Hero[join] was a b-teamer and completely uninspired, who knows whom out of the people on the rosters are actually top 30, they might not even get play time just because of planning.
Is anything provable? Players can play head to head and you can still argue the player that lost was actually 'better'. Since there are 7 Kespa teams, ranking 30th would mean they are the 4th-5th ranked player on you team. It is likely they would be played in most matches.
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On December 30 2012 16:37 Prince_Stranger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time Add baby
oops, baby is actually Code S already for 2013 season 1, no idea how I forgot him.
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Shine is pulling tricks left and right.
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On December 30 2012 16:38 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:37 Prince_Stranger wrote:On December 30 2012 16:25 Dodgin wrote:ok let's do this Code S level ( probably ) players playing in Proleague HerO TaeJa Soulkey Flash bbyong sOs, maybe rain fantasy herojoin jaedong maybe roro bogus I think that's it, anyone disagree? On December 30 2012 16:25 blade55555 wrote:On December 30 2012 16:17 Dodgin wrote:
startale would never lose a match in proleague, you're kidding yourselves ;o I think your kidding yourself if you seriously think that xD they would be rank 1 easily, they can field a lineup of 5 code s players + someone pretty good every time Add baby oops, baby is actually Code S already for 2013 season 1, no idea how I forgot him.
because he's like 1-4 in regular PL matches.
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On December 30 2012 16:38 polgas wrote:
Shine is pulling tricks left and right.
And EffOrt pulling ahead in every possible facet of the game...
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EPT
