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[TSL] Ladder with Legends

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[TSL] Ladder with Legends

Text byriptide
November 20th, 2009 06:38 GMT

[image loading]

There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
Julius Caesar Act 4, scene 3, 218–224

Broodwar has been around for more than a decade, and yet now, in its twilight years, we are on the brink of its biggest tournament to date. Both in terms of reach and scope, The Pokerstrategy.com TSL is unparalleled. While the later stages of the tournament will showcase the talents of the finest the foreign scene has to offer, the ladder that begins today offers you a chance to step up and be a part of it as well.

Yes, the TSL is about the best of the best. Right now, however, in these few hours that lead up to the opening of the ladder, it is about us, about everyone who has ever found joy in the screech of a mutalisk and the slow trudge of a Terran push as it obliterates everything in its path. The TSL at its earliest stage is not just a tournament, but a veritable celebration of everything Broodwar, and our hope is that as you oil your mice and keyboards and stock up on energy drinks that you will keep in mind that at the end of the day, the TSL has no losers. Winners, yes, but no losers, for what can be lost while being a part of something like this?

To whet your appetite a little, we tracked down one of Broodwar's oldest faces and sat down with him to talk about the game then and now, and why the TSL is so special. So, get pumped, get psyched, and get out there on the ladder, where you will get the chance to play legends like Legionnaire.

Ladder with Legionnaire

You're a man who needs no introduction on TL. However, you've been largely inactive for some years now and yet decided to dust off your keyboard and mouse for the last TSL. What made you take the plunge?

Nazgul had some videos of me doing "things" in korea. He promised to burn them if I participated. It's been a while since I've played. I am pretty horrendous now, but it should be a bit of fun to have a go at it. Hopefully I can share the love around, and let everyone have a chance to beat me.

How about we take a moment to (re)tell the tale of Korea - how and why you went, and what happened, in brief.

I went to one of the WCG's, did fairly badly, but the best of the Australians, we had a showmatch vs some Koreans set up and I was the only one who won a match (against Ssamjang on his return to progaming match). They offered me (quite stupidly) to stay on in Korea, but I didn't realize how big it was back then and turned it down. I then practiced a lot more for the next WCG, and took a gamble, and extended my visa for the full 3 months. Fortunately I was picked up by a sponsor, which I stayed with until I made the top 8 of the 512 person, MBC amateur tourney. I did enough to impress the POS [Editors Note: Pirates of Space] (awesome awesome guys) team, and I moved to be with them. After that I had a lot of fun, traveled a lot playing computer games for a living, met a lot of fantastic people and all in all had a blast.

You had a blast and all killed Toona in the process? Tell us a bit about the smackdown you delivered to (Z)Silver /(Z)Ogogo /(T)Goodfriend / (P)Nal_Rock and the events that surrounded it.

It was a showmatch, between POS team and TOONA (pre nada). The team decided to throw me out first to have a bit of experience playing up on stage, and so I went out not expecting much (even less since my first opponent was a Zerg). I was actually really relaxed because everyone including myself thought I was going to get demolished. Being so relaxed probably helped.

First game against Silver I almost lost straight away when I let some zerglings in, but managed to destroy the other guys main with some nifty reaver shuttling with zealots and DTs. Then after that the first game was fairly much over.

Second game was on the volcanic 4-player map (I forget its name, its on youtube I think) vs ogogo, who I'd played with a bit online in practice games. I went sair DT and expanded -- it was a long game -- and I had some pretty nice micro in it. The best part was the final storm, which killed every zergling of his final attack. Picture perfect way to see "GG" come up

Then I took on Goodfriend (I can't remember much about this match) and Rock, who I took down with reaver / carrier work. It was fairly weird, I couldn't believe that I kept winning. I'm sure the manager bribed Toona team to let me win! I think being so relaxed and calm about it all, and just thinking about strategies helped a lot. Its definitely good advice for people when the play. Oh yeah -- It was the first ever Protoss All-Kill!

Wow. Which year was this again?

Must have been back in 2002? (FYI Game vs ogogo was on Dark Sauron, 4-part series on Youtube... yes I just Youtubed myself).

Let's talk a bit now about Korea at the time. Today, when we tune into the OGN/MBC streams, or just watch the VODs we want on Youtube, the games, players and scene we see is no doubt very different to what you walked into when you first stepped off that plane in Seoul.

When i first went to Korea, everything was about Boxer. Yellow was a distant second. Elky was doing fairly good. And it was when Nada was starting his rise. Oh and Reach was still a love muffin. Back then, it was pretty much Z > P >= T > Z. And you could still get away with some funky builds.

Funky? Do tell us more.

Sair DT into Reaver then Templar expansion from 1 base (think of the gas) vs Zerg could work if you did it well (vs 2nd grade pros). Yet nowadays trying to do that would get you annihilated. Gundam rushes were in fashion. Man he was good -- until he fell out of bed one time and broke his hand. An unlikely story that one, I think he and Elky were doing something kinky. People just became so much better so fast.

Haha, the amount of dirt you have on ex-progamers must give you considerable leeway with them.

Blackmail always works... just ask Nazgul. He knows how to use blackmail well...

Hahaha, OK let's get back to progamer gossip in a bit. Right now, give us your thoughts on gameplay. You said everyone got better fast. However, one might also argue that 'creative play' has suffered because of this.
Agreed. Of course the game always evolves (Stork / Bisu style PvZ etc), but I never would have thought it was possible when I was playing. I think replays killed creativity more than anything else, as it made everyone improve and learn faster than they would have normally.

That's interesting, Boxer said the same thing in a recent interview. Since you mentioned that the progaming scene you stepped into was all about Boxer and the rise of Nada, why not tell us a bit about your interactions with Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yoon Yeol and what it was like to rub shoulders with them at their prime?

First time i ever played Boxer, was on my birthday (pre Korea) a Korean friend set up the game. He did hidden factory, built 2-3 vults and ran into my undefended main on LT (my goons were attacking his main). GG in under 6 mins.

Yellow was by far the friendliest of all of the top progamers, he went out of his way to try and talk to you and say hi. (I sat next to him at one of my first tournaments). Nada was pretty cool, I practiced with him on some maps when i was practicing for the ITV league (July and I dominated that league early on and we took down some of the top team, we made it to the finals, or semi finals). I didn't hang out with them too much socially. After all... they were the enemy.

Who were you with on POS at the time then, and how was the team in general? Tell us a bit about practice and of course, play.

(T)BlueK (old school first generation terran), (Z)JulyZerg (prior to his Domination, ie pre 2 Hidden Lurker zergling rushes he did every game), (P)TerAtO (good protoss), (P)Junitoss (good PvZ player), then some cool dong sengs, (Z)Shark, and a few others. The team was awesome, players were great, everyone was friendly, they all had an amazing drive to win, and all wanted to learn and get better.

I was fairly lazy in comparison. Junitoss and Shark would play 30+ sometimes 40 games a day. It was amazing. The team was fairly poor as they had no / or minimal sponsorship, and they were just trying to survive. In the end that's what forced us (Brian - (T)Assem and myself) to leave.

We used to have "Team matches" where everyone in the team played everyone else and we'd rank ourselves. If you lost you had to clean up the house! It was a good motivator. Everyone lived in a sort of dorm style accommodation, and had a big LANset up in the lounge room, fun times. Some of my best times in korea were in that team.

So back then, would it be fair to say that there was no "foreigner scene" per se? If so, how did one evolve?

The foreigner scene was very fragmented at the time, everyone played on the Korean servers, with everyone pretending to be a Korean so that the real Koreans wouldn't just leave the game before it started. If you had Korean friends you could set up games, but beyond that you were excluded a bit from the Korean scene, just from skill difference / latency issues / language barrier.

So, this in a way led to foreigners playing among themselves?

I think as WCG and other tournaments made some foreigners more famous, it sort of helped integrate everyone playing together, the better community servers and other things also helped. Oh shinji (old school z) was also on POS. He just sent me an email! Ahhh.. spam... just what you like to see in your inbox thx Shinji.

Apart from WCG though, what sort of tournaments did the foreign community have in its early years?
They had their own tournies, like Australia had their own server that we all played on, there wasn't really too much. WGTOUR and other ladders came along a short while later, and that helped out as well. Quite a few Koreans played on WGTour in the early days. Junitoss and July were right up there at the top of the ladder.

OK let's time travel a little. The TSL was called the first tournament of its kind in the foreign scene. What "kind" would that be?

Large prize money, well organised tourney for foreigners. Simple as that.

Having said that, how would you summarise this second TSL?
Larger prize money, well organised tourney for foreigners? (Which had some Protoss's luckbox their way through to the top group!)

Haha. Alright, let's talk about the ladder. Apart from Nazgul's "persuasion" why did you decide to play the ladder, both in the last TSL and in this?

I was bored, I hadn't played Starcraft for a long time, and I felt like seeing how well I could do. And its always good to participate in foreigner tournies, it has a good atmosphere mainly because they get so few opportunities to experience something like that. And this one, as I heard players had difficulty finding easy opponents last time, I've been put into the tourney to help out and provide free wins for whoever wants them.

As someone who experienced the "real deal" in Korea, how would you rank the TSL ladder in terms of being a gaming experience?

In Korea its all about the competition, and the pressure and anticipation really mount. As I said the atmosphere is different for the foreigner ones, as although the competition is still there, everyone is more eager and have more fun as its more of a unique experience, just because there are so few opportunites like it. I think its fantastic that these events can still occur for such an old game. Fantastic props to the TL staff who made this happen, and thx to PokerStrategy.com for their support.

With so many top foreigners on the ladder, why should Joe Noob even play when he can barely break D+ on ICCUP?

J Noob vs ex progamer Legionnaire. 3:0 whitewash! Joe Noob wins!

It's a free tournament, in something that will be talked about for a long time to come. Why wouldn't you participate? Its definitely an experience people should try out no matter what their skill level. They can learn new things and improve their game, or at the very least have some fun trying

Alright, that's about it! Thanks for talking to us, and good luck on the ladder!

Thanks a lot, it should be a lot of fun. Good luck to all who participate.


For Broodwar

Anyone who has ever played the TSL will tell you that the tournament isn't just about a podium position, or the massive prize pool, though to be fair, those are pretty good motivators. If you have played Starcraft for any period of time, if you like or love this game, if you, for whatever reason, are reading this post right now, then the chances are that the TSL is for you. Yes, you. As much as the Team Liquid Starleague is about letting the best players outside Korea show their skills, it's also about letting everyone outside Korea play together and once again competitively enjoy this great game that brought us all together so many years ago.

In fact, when we say the TSL is the largest, most inclusive Starcraft tournament in the world, we're not lying. Here are some neat statistics of the Razer TSL Ro48 and the continents represented in it.

[image loading]


While the WCG is called the Olympics of gaming, the fact remains that if you don't have Starcraft in your national tournament, or if like many countries you don't even have a national tournament, you're definitely not going to be able to play on a global stage. The TSL, and in particular the open TSL ladder changes all that. If you have the ability, if you have the motivation, and if you can bring your macro, micro and strategy together in one swift motion, you can crawl that ladder and make the TSL. It has been done, it can be done, and it will be done.

If you do decide to play the ladder, and we hope nearly all of you will, you'll not only be a part of the biggest Starcraft tournament in the world, you'll also be a part of what will likely be its last. No, we don't know when the SC2 beta will be out. What we do know is that given the timing, this may very well be the last chance we'll get to say good bye on a stage such as this.

Therefore, let us give it everything we have. Every game, every win, every loss, every moment of these next three weeks is going to be about the macro, the micro and the mind that brings us together as we face each other on the ladder, taking victory and defeat in stride, and in the end enjoying the process, the journey, the game itself.

Take this TSL, take it at the flood, and live in every moment of it, for a time like this may never come again. Use these next three weeks to play some good games, and maybe grab a match or two against the likes of Legionnaire and Nazgul, Idra and Ret, players young and old who have seen Broodwar from so many different angles. Use these three weeks wisely, use them well, and at the end of it make sure you're able to sit back and say - "I played the TSL, I did my best, and I had the time of my life."

In the end, we at Team Liquid wish you nothing but good games, and good luck.

For Glory, For Honour, For Broodwar!



This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level.




Thanks to Kennigit, pachi and Silversky for the graphics and heyoka for the stats!
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AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
November 20 2009 07:53 GMT
#2
Legionnaire, hope you qualify again this time!
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
ChaoSbringer
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia1382 Posts
November 20 2009 07:58 GMT
#3
So excited, hopefully I'll be able to show what I got against the the old legends of SC.
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
November 20 2009 07:58 GMT
#4
YES LEGIONNAIRE. I love TL so much, oh and awesome write up!
QuickSandSlowly
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
China95 Posts
November 20 2009 08:00 GMT
#5
Legionnaire HWAITING~
jijibulei ggplay
crc
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia256 Posts
November 20 2009 08:04 GMT
#6
wow leg, what a legend. go australia!

if you ever come down to sydney, give me a PM before hand, will buy you dinner lol (at any reasonably priced restaurant)
Eeevil
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands359 Posts
November 20 2009 08:13 GMT
#7
Best of luck to everyone.
Dance like a butterfly, sting like an Intercontinental Ballistic Nuclear Missle.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
November 20 2009 08:13 GMT
#8
Pee-tah!
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Husky
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3362 Posts
November 20 2009 08:20 GMT
#9
I jizzed.

You guys are hyping this up to dangerous levels.
Commentaries: youtube.com/HuskyStarcraft
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
November 20 2009 08:21 GMT
#10
Awesome post!
Good luck to leg, hope I can get a game with him when I'm laddering!
Writerman what
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7454 Posts
November 20 2009 08:23 GMT
#11
Ok ok I'm going to play. Fuck ... did this this really have to happen during the craziest retail time of the year =(.

My store will suffer but who cares!
pangshai
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Chinatown5333 Posts
November 20 2009 08:34 GMT
#12
i thought now would be a good time to post the pictures of leg's autograph that i've kept forever, since getting it back in 2005 when leg came down to singapore to play in the WCG grand finals.

[image loading]

[image loading]


good luck in the ladder, mate!
#1 midas fan
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
November 20 2009 08:35 GMT
#13
Awesome interview. Peter is a qt
Moderator<:3-/-<
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
November 20 2009 08:36 GMT
#14
old school! that all-kill was nuts. foreigner all-killing a korean team... i'm waiting for that day to come
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
November 20 2009 08:36 GMT
#15
Good to see more old players coming back.
I am looking forward to this TSL. I think it can surpass the first.
zOula...
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States898 Posts
November 20 2009 08:40 GMT
#16
great interview and write up. it makes me so excited for this event!
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
November 20 2009 08:41 GMT
#17
fantastic interview and nice writeup :D

im watching Legionnaire vs Ogogo right now xD
T H C makes ppl happy
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19135 Posts
November 20 2009 08:44 GMT
#18
Wherever you are, the TSL is open to you.

Except africa lolol! (watch the map)

And great article riptide <3
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51449 Posts
November 20 2009 08:47 GMT
#19
peter neate please be my mentor for starcraft and starcraft 2.
Commentator
IronWolf
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
South Africa315 Posts
November 20 2009 08:49 GMT
#20
Nice interview....more hype please!

I like continental breakdown....not a single African! Maybe by TSL3 we will have better internet connections and can actually participate!

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