Hey Oats

I get these reasons for you suspecting holyflare:
1) Focuses too much on MM1 (to set up a mislynch)
2) You think MM1 is town (unclear if this is a reason but I think it's the case)
3) You say MM1 is trying hard and Holyflare is laughing away

Are there more? I'll talk about them in a minute

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 16:40 GMT

#2008

1) Focuses too much on MM1 (to set up a mislynch)

On September 05 2014 01:31 Amiko wrote:
@Oats:
Why is it scummy to focus on players in advance of their cell?
For what it's worth, it seems to me that most of your posts seem to focus on me / marv...

3) You say MM1 is trying hard and Holyflare is laughing away
It seems like holyflare is trying pretty hard to me - I feel like he went sorta went ham on MM1, has more posts throughout the game, longer filter, etc.

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 16:46 GMT

#2009

@Oats:
I know he hasn't voted yet, but I'm wondering why you voted today on your own instead of sheeping marv today?

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 20:07 GMT

#2027

On September 06 2014 03:27 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Welk thats game,

Just going to go on record

Bh, bunnies, hf, marv as mafia. Ill apologize to town for not following my earlier scum reads

@Amiko, and wos why are you voting for me?

I'll try to break it down as much as possible- I put a post earlier talking about why I feel WoS is probably town, so I'll try to just comment on him briefly here and then focus on you and Holyflare.
I think WoS is probably town as outlined here - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=96#1915. Of these points, I think his vote movement and posts D2 are probably what convinced me more than his responses.
Honestly, I think there's probably an argument that WoS's vote posts are scummy. He's often indicating a willingness to move between Blazinghand and Batsnacks - it's clear that his vote is up in the air. But, his responses at each post tend to ring true to me... I guess I just wouldn't expect him to have a strong firm at those points in the game, so it doesn't trouble me that he didn't.

Anyway, I started writing on WoS to make a comparison. Comparing your posts (MM1) to WoS, I feel like some posts seem unnatural and unlike what a player would usually do, or reflect that your reads aren't what they say they are. The one-minute difference in where you were voting is an example of this (Oats' comment that he was sheeping marv is another example, I think, though it doesn't bear on you.)

Another example would be this post-

On September 02 2014 16:12 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
im liking this day so far

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22888549
Like, at this point there's maybe one and a half posts with content in them for the day... what is there to like?

To be clear, I'm not saying that you are scum because you said you liked the day. I can't even tell if you are serious or joking in that post. It just seems off.

Let's compare you to WoS in another way.
When Holyflare does a trap sort of thing for WoS, WaveofShadow sees this as something that is (probably) town from Holyflare. He notes that it's possible Holyflare is meta-ing him, or using a trap because he knows Wave will read him as town, etc., but WoS brings up something most players would probably read HF as town for on a day when he and HF are up for lynch. Further, WoS gives him a mostly town read for trying to scumhunt him.

Compare this to your reaction to Holyflare trying to bury you for the "slip" post regarding bunnies as a partner. Your overall response is that HF is lying, misrepresenting, throwing scum on you, etc. This is a little more nuanced (I could try to talk about my reaction to Oats earlier in the game to flesh this out, for example), but overall the point I'm getting at is that you don't seem to believe that Holyflare could be misguided town, you feel that he is mafia who knows he is lying and misrepresenting you.

I'll try to write more but I'm in and out of meetings today and since deadline is approaching it's good to get a few ideas out

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 20:53 GMT

#2032

I can believe you were joking for the "liking this day" post it was just something that stuck out as an example.
--

I don't blame you for not seeing HF as misguided town now since he's basically gone for the throat on you since yesterday. I guess it just struck me as weird that you didn't consider seem to consider it earlier? It seems to me that both WaveofShadow and Holyflare seemed to feel you were scummy from D1 (after the interaction involving the trap) so clearly at least one town was suspecting you - why HF and not WoS at that point (before HF attacked you as much as he has now)?

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 21:15 GMT

#2035

Okay so Meat I feel like you see the 3-player interaction as really key to why you scumread holyflare

My understanding of this is that you are saying you think Toad is town because if he was mafia, he would make a case on bunnies. Wave questions what you mean, and Holyflare says it may be because as mafia, you would know bunnies is mafia and feel like Toad could make a case on her.

Your point is that:
If Holyflare believes the explanation he is providing (you and bunnies are mafia), and we have reason to believe he does (because he believes you are mafia), then he should have voted for bunnies.

Is that a good summation?

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 21:16 GMT

#2036

I had a little trouble understanding it so let me know if I am not explaning properly (like I didn't really get the significance of Wave's second post questioning you)

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 21:20 GMT

#2037

(Because I think he was voting bunnies so I don't get it)

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 21:56 GMT

#2039

I don't know whether you are scum or mafia but I think you played much better this game.

seeing soon

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 21:56 GMT

#2040

ebwop: scum or town

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 22:02 GMT

#2046

gg wp!

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 22:49 GMT

#2060

Haha
Yeah I thought your comment on me was kinda weird since I felt I deserved a stronger townread, but I feel like every time I try to use a program to consolidate my reads I usually forget to keep them updated so I didn't read too much into the image

If we made it to Cell 5 I was thinking about voting for marv in the beginning of the day just to see what happened, but I feel pretty confident I would have voted to lynch oats.

I'm glad the game felt close (even if maybe it wasn't close); my expectation pretty early on was that town would lose 3-0
:3

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

September 05 2014 23:02 GMT

#2062

Thanks to Artanis, SlOosh, and OnceKing for hosting!

MysteryMeat although we mislynched you I really do feel that your play had substantially improved since the last time I read you, for a while I was wondering if your scumteam was giving you tips or if maybe they were forcing you to make more of an effort. We lost but I think you did well and just wanted to throw a compliment your way for that

btw I was speculating that maybe your mom was layabout (since both used the word "arse" and I thought layabout was maybe low activity) but it was just a guess.