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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:00 HaruRH wrote: What makes you think that obi has nothing particularly scummy outside of the possibility that you are defending your scumpartner and you're waiting for the moment to bus him? Huh? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:00 HaruRH wrote: What makes you think that obi has nothing particularly scummy outside of the possibility that you are defending your scumpartner and you're waiting for the moment to bus him? omg.  hahahaha. so bad but stilol.. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Haru do you play video mafia? No lol What makes you think I play video mafia? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
you genuinely new on forum mafia? | ||
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: because that way you could be on townpile. you genuinely new on forum mafia? Is playing 6 games still new If so I'm genuinely new | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: xatalos go? Hm? I'm still somewhat here for a moment so ask away. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
1. His entrance into the game Xatalos entered the game complaining about how he rolled town... again. This in itself is slightly scummy. I would say 70% of time I hear this came from scum. But now let's look at how he said it: + Show Spoiler + On July 23 2014 03:03 Xatalos wrote: ##Vote raynpelikoneet Sigh On July 23 2014 06:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: /confirm Xatalos why did you write "sigh" after your vote? On July 23 2014 06:07 Xatalos wrote: Going into the game, I wanted to roll scum and regain my lost honor after my recent losses as scum. Alas, I'm town for who knows how many times in a row now. Instead of just saying "dang, I rolled town again", he posts "sigh" in anticipation that someone will ask him about it, and then tell them he's sad about rolling town. In real life, this is an attention whoring tactic. You want to share some of your feelings, but want to make it seem less self-centered, so you bait other people into asking you. (Source: Go watch any female League of Legends streamer). In this mafia context, Xatalos probably knows complaining about rolling town is not going to be perceived as towny, so what does he do instead? Attention whore it! The combination of being worried about how people perceive his townclaim, and the extra effort put into it makes him 10x more scummy. 2. Being an early game cockblock At the start of the game, I tried to put some pressure onto Xatalos and Koshi, to which Xatalos responded with: + Show Spoiler + On July 23 2014 06:09 Xatalos wrote: I don't think it's a good idea to lynch either of us for D1. Generally speaking. On July 23 2014 06:16 Xatalos wrote: Koshi can look scummy during D1 as town so it's not usually a good time to lynch him. I'm generally active regardless of my alignment, and I become a (somewhat) valuable asset throughout the game as town and I tend to reveal myself more easily later on as scum (+leaving material to work with). Neither of us are ideal D1 lynches. Xatalos doesn't want to try reading Koshi at all on day 1. That's bad, but not the main problem. The main problem is that he's blocking the pressure I'm trying to put on people. As town, this makes zero sense. Even if he doesn't think he can read Koshi well, there's no reason to stop other people from trying. Even more so to block pressure so that there's even less information to read. As mafia, what could this mean? He's trying to gain favor from Koshi. Makes perfect sense. This is confirmed later on when I criticized him for it: On July 23 2014 06:41 Xatalos wrote: As a sidenote, I'm extremely careful not to connect myself with my teammates as scum. You can see me bussing / semi-bussing / distancing my teammates in pretty much every game. I would never fake a friendly conversation with my teammate as scum, at least right away. So instead of explaining why he defended Koshi, he says that if he's mafia, he wouldn't pocket another mafia. From this defense, I actually think if Xatalos is mafia, Koshi's probably town. But Xatalos is 10x more mafia than before for only defending Koshi from the perspective if he were mafia. 3. Townreading instead of scumreading The biggest hurdle that mafia have is that they have to find scummy things in people that they know are not scum. Xatalos seems to be burdened by this the most. He declared that he wasn't going to bother reading people who are hard to read: + Show Spoiler + On July 23 2014 06:16 Xatalos wrote: Koshi can look scummy during D1 as town so it's not usually a good time to lynch him. I'm generally active regardless of my alignment, and I become a (somewhat) valuable asset throughout the game as town and I tend to reveal myself more easily later on as scum (+leaving material to work with). Neither of us are ideal D1 lynches. On July 23 2014 06:29 Xatalos wrote: Koshi - against lynching him D1 raynpelikoneet - definitely not a D1 lynch unless he somehow is really scummy (doubtful regardless of his alignment) kushm4sta - hmmm.... I think he's quite a good scum player so I'd rather see until later to judge him Palmar - see raynpelikoneet On July 23 2014 19:25 Xatalos wrote: 2) The "kush is a good scum player" thing? It just meant that I have no confidence in catching kush immediately. It should be better to wait some more before marking him as either town or scum. For the entire game, Xatalos has given many people townreads, but only really voted Damdred and Navillus. Damdred off just a gut feeling and Navillus because his case was a bit weak (more on this later). It is clear that Xatalos has a lot of issues scumreading anyone. So far he hasn't pushed on anybody or made a strong case on anybody either. He's been giving the excuse that there's not much to go off of on day 1. However, since he's giving so many townreads on people, he must think that there's enough to go off of for calling people town. This is like the biggest scumtell. 4. Scumreading standards that reflect an agenda Xatalos voted Navillus at a very opportune time - when Navillus looked to be a second wagon that could save Xatalos. Self-preservation voting isn't scummy, but when you do it early on in the game instead of scumhunting, it's incredibly scummy. Here's the reason that Xatalos voted Navillus. He tries to give his own reason, but it's pretty clear that he's sheeping in order to get the wagon on someone else: On July 23 2014 18:48 Xatalos wrote: Navillus could be scum. Reasonably likely is. His posts are pretty inconclusive and weak despite having a lot of text. Leaving a lot of options open for future actions. Xatalos gives a townreads on himself and many other people for the exact behavior that he's scumreading Navillus for: + Show Spoiler + On July 23 2014 20:38 Xatalos wrote: I feel like Palmar made a reasonable early case, but it's far from conclusive. It's hard to have a conclusive case on D1 really. And you playing more to your scum meta + wanting to lynch Navillus isn't very encouraging. On July 24 2014 00:15 Xatalos wrote: I think I did mention that it's stupid to call me "infinitely scummy" for a single listpost, but overall I don't feel like it's inherently scummy to make bad cases. It's D1 after all, good cases are rare. On July 24 2014 00:47 Xatalos wrote: I'm not really worried about being lynched and I know my own alignment, so it's kind of nice to have initial suspicions on me to see how they develop / how other players react. At least it's better than everyone sheeping to some lurker. Plus there isn't really much to say about those posts you mentioned. They're either weak suspicions or not even real suspicions at all. Damdred's post has probably been the most useless one, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if there's scum among this group. On July 24 2014 01:07 Xatalos wrote: Probably not Teemursu. He's been pretty involved and expressed clear opinions so far. It's not like he's even having me as a strong scumread, just a FOS or something, which doesn't seem that unreasonable. Damdred is potential scum. Seems like he's mostly been trying to stay under the radar and he's pretty cautious / passive. Dunno about Haru atm. Null. His reasons for suspecting me are kind of dumb, but not totally outrageous when there's little to work with during D1. TBD. ObiWan and batsnacks didn't really give much of an opinion on me and just townread Damdred. Kind of weird, I guess... There could be scum among these two. ObiWan felt somewhat townish earlier though. On July 24 2014 02:30 Xatalos wrote: GB's confidence in me being scum is actually pretty shocking. It's like he initially decided that I would be his vote target and proceeded to search for justification to keep his vote on me. There is literally no consideration for me possibly being town in his filter. In his latest post he confidently states that "mafia changed the attention away from Xatalos". This is some really stupid confirmation bias or a hopeless scum mislynch push. I think it's actually more likely coming from scum since it feels... forced. Especially his great confidence in his read right after the game had just started. On July 24 2014 07:00 Xatalos wrote: rayn, so you think ObiWan is scum? Have you played with him before? I dunno about his meta, but he doesn't feel like he's afraid of getting attention at all. He's also posted quite a bit so far. It's more indicative of town to me. He's showed reluctance to take stances, but it could just be genuinely not having many strong opinions. Is there something else on him besides the wishy-washiness? Xatalos also voted Damdred off a gutread, which seems to be inconsistent with the rest of his play. Here's the case I posted earlier: On July 23 2014 11:27 Chairman Ray wrote: Another issue I have with this damdred gut read is that it doesn't fit with his no-lynch reads. He put a bunch of people on a no-lynch list because those people don't give a strong indication of alignment on day 1. This means that he's looking for really strong scumreads. However, he's scumreading damdred for hardly anything. Doesn't make a lot of sense. 5. Disconnected with the discussion at hand Xatalos does not seem to be really involved with what's happening in the game. The vast majority of his reads have simply been about how active people are. Another thing is that he's throwing townreads left and right. This leads me to believe that he's trying to be active without trying to catch scum at all. + Show Spoiler + On July 23 2014 20:08 Xatalos wrote: Yeah, I remember Vivax being apathetic as scum. It wasn't quite this bad though. Not really sold on Teemursu at this point. He seems reasonably decisive and focused on the game. On July 23 2014 20:28 Xatalos wrote: Huh. Apparently Vivax is about 5x more active and involved in the game as town compared to his scum play. Right now he seems to be leaning scum. On July 23 2014 23:37 Xatalos wrote: Hmm... I'm starting to think that Vivax might be town after all. He's stayed pretty active and involved for a while now. On July 23 2014 23:44 Xatalos wrote: Last time I saw Vivax as scum, he truly didn't seem to care about much of anything and was very lurky. But in this game, at least recently, he's maintained a good amount of activity and his posts have also felt reasonably constructive. I checked some of his past games earlier and it seems like he's considerably more active and involved as town - more fitting with his recent play, whereas earlier he was more apathetic. On July 24 2014 00:06 Xatalos wrote: Because I looked at some of his past games and he was generally apathetic/inactive as scum and involved/active as town. His early posting fit the former, his recent posting fits the latter. On July 24 2014 00:08 Xatalos wrote: Oh yeah, to this: in any case, it's not a good idea to lynch him now since if he's scum, he's bound to become apathetic at some point. On July 24 2014 01:07 Xatalos wrote: Damdred is potential scum. Seems like he's mostly been trying to stay under the radar and he's pretty cautious / passive. [QUOTE]On July 24 2014 07:00 Xatalos wrote: I dunno about his meta, but he doesn't feel like he's afraid of getting attention at all. He's also posted quite a bit so far. It's more indicative of town to me.[QUOTE] On the other hand, when the discussion is directly about Xatalos, he becomes very attentive to context and detail. It's reasonable for town to be more focused on cases that are about them more than cases about other people, but to this extent, I'm thinking mafia. Xatalos is the mayor of scumville. Vote with me and vanquish the evil! | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
just because someone tells it's bad it does not make you immortal. | ||
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
Overly aggressive to a minature push? Check. No concrete reads, voting for almost non-reasons? Check. No significant contribution outside of fighting with teemu? Check. On July 24 2014 07:59 Xatalos wrote: kush, what makes you so confident in your scumread on ObiWan? I just can't think of anything that would make him particularly scummy. I don't want to call xatalos a bad town. I'm a good guy. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
'Posts sound like attention whore so is scummy' | ||
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