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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 271

Forum Index > General Forum
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
July 05 2013 14:46 GMT
#5401
This witness already seems to support GZ's case more than TM...
3 Hatch Before Cool
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 05 2013 14:46 GMT
#5402
On July 05 2013 15:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 15:04 casuistry wrote:
On July 05 2013 15:00 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:09 plogamer wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:01 xDaunt wrote:
On July 05 2013 12:44 zlefin wrote:
Manslaughter, or perhaps even something lower than that, is quite a bit better than murder; as it requires no malice on Zimmerman's part. You can rely on his recklessness, stupidity, and negligence to craft the charge. It's clear he has those things, it's a lot harder to prove malice. I think getting around self defense would also be feasible, and is also likely far closer to the truth, with a more nuanced approach. I'd need to check Florida law and definitions, and review the case more to say exactly, but something in that ballpark should be doable.


And I still say prosecution is inept as they spend a lot of time on pointless testimony; I don't like people wasting the court's time.

You are missing the point. Go read the jury instructions in the OP. Self-defense is a complete defense to both murder and manslaughter. In other words, manslaughter is just as vulnerable to being defeated by self-defense as murder is. In this case, there is very strong evidence that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Because of that, pursuing a manslaughter charge instead of murder won't help the prosecution.


There isn't enough evidence that Zimmerman didn't act in self-defense. It sounds semantic, but it's a big deal since the burden of proof is on the prosecution. But yeah, self-defense counters both murder and manslaughter.

I would rather get Zimmerman to perjure himself since he wants a very noble account of the incident; there is so much public attention. Zimmerman wants to win not only in legal courts, but also in the court of public opinion; making him more likely to fudge his story.

But maybe an actual lawyer like Daph can think of a better strategy for the prosecution.

offer a plea bargain. something with minimum prison time (1-5 years) with possibility of early release based on good behavior. zimmerman would be an idiot to pass, and the prosecutor would be an idiot to let the jury decide this issue after this train wreck. prosecutor will take some heat on such a low charge given the murder 2 charge, but better that than acquittal.

Why would Zimmerman be an idiot to pass on a plea when it seems so likely he won't be convicted?

juries are fickle creatures. who knows what could cause them to convict. maybe West's knock knock joke upset them; maybe zimmerman wasnt emotional enough during trial; and maybe they just think zimmerman is a liar. i have seen slam dunk, even a 2 year old couldnt lose motions lose because a judge said "fuck it." similar issue with jurors.

This is depressingly true -- particularly in civil trials. However, I strongly suspect that the judge would get a swift kick in the ass on appeal if the jury convicts Zimmerman and the judge fails to overturn it.
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
July 05 2013 14:48 GMT
#5403
What does "intermediate range" mean?
3 Hatch Before Cool
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
July 05 2013 15:00 GMT
#5404
The autopsy guy is weird. He says a lot that isn't asked. And it's hard for me to understand being a non-native English speaker.

Is it normal for the guy to spell every other word?
Felnarion
Profile Joined December 2011
442 Posts
July 05 2013 15:01 GMT
#5405
On July 06 2013 00:00 Sjokola wrote:
The autopsy guy is weird. He says a lot that isn't asked. And it's hard for me to understand being a non-native English speaker.

Is it normal for the guy to spell every other word?


He's doing it because he realizes he might not be understood.

That said, he is weird. Very halting speech, very annoying.
AimForTheBushes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1760 Posts
July 05 2013 15:02 GMT
#5406
they defined intermediate range as something like 0.4 inches to a few feet away, I believe..

(and this prosecutor is still just terrible)
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
July 05 2013 15:03 GMT
#5407
"Could be alive for 1 to 10 minutes"

And the baggyness of the hoody supports that the hoody was separated from his body (dangling fashion by gravity)
Knighthawkbro
Profile Joined August 2011
United States183 Posts
July 05 2013 15:07 GMT
#5408
On July 05 2013 23:48 -Kaiser- wrote:
What does "intermediate range" mean?


Basically the distance between trayvon's baggy clothes and his chest as they followed up with loose contact on the sweat shirt.

On July 06 2013 00:00 Sjokola wrote:
The autopsy guy is weird. He says a lot that isn't asked. And it's hard for me to understand being a non-native English speaker.

Is it normal for the guy to spell every other word?


I suspect that when most of the people you work with can't shut you up you tend to lose sense of focused conversation.
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -George Carlin
AimForTheBushes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1760 Posts
July 05 2013 15:09 GMT
#5409
And I don't this this guy's speech is annoying.. as an expert witness, it's his duty to carefully choose how to appropriately answer and be completely truthful.. the fact that he has a thick accent further complicates his speaking.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
July 05 2013 15:15 GMT
#5410
The defense attorney seems like a veteran
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
July 05 2013 15:18 GMT
#5411
On July 06 2013 00:09 AimForTheBushes wrote:
And I don't this this guy's speech is annoying.. as an expert witness, it's his duty to carefully choose how to appropriately answer and be completely truthful.. the fact that he has a thick accent further complicates his speaking.

What do you mean by the first part? (I don't this this)
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
July 05 2013 15:20 GMT
#5412
People are saying on twitter that this autopsy guy has proven that Zimmerman was lying. What happens when the defense has their expert take the stand? Will they contradict each other?
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
July 05 2013 15:21 GMT
#5413
On July 06 2013 00:20 ranshaked wrote:
People are saying on twitter that this autopsy guy has proven that Zimmerman was lying. What happens when the defense has their expert take the stand? Will they contradict each other?


What's the contradiction?
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Knighthawkbro
Profile Joined August 2011
United States183 Posts
July 05 2013 15:21 GMT
#5414
On July 06 2013 00:18 Sjokola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2013 00:09 AimForTheBushes wrote:
And I don't this this guy's speech is annoying.. as an expert witness, it's his duty to carefully choose how to appropriately answer and be completely truthful.. the fact that he has a thick accent further complicates his speaking.

What do you mean by the first part? (I don't this this)


I believe it was an error on his his end.
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -George Carlin
Tewks44
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2032 Posts
July 05 2013 15:22 GMT
#5415
On July 06 2013 00:20 ranshaked wrote:
People are saying on twitter that this autopsy guy has proven that Zimmerman was lying. What happens when the defense has their expert take the stand? Will they contradict each other?


I'm not watching the trial, what did the autopsy guy say that disputed Zimmerman's story?
"that is our ethos; free content, starcraft content, websites that work occasionally" -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
rasnj
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1959 Posts
July 05 2013 15:23 GMT
#5416
On July 06 2013 00:20 ranshaked wrote:
People are saying on twitter that this autopsy guy has proven that Zimmerman was lying. What happens when the defense has their expert take the stand? Will they contradict each other?

Who are saying that and what are they saying that about? I didn't see this particular testimony so I don't know if there is some truth to this, but Twitter is full of stupid people and people with agendas.
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
July 05 2013 15:25 GMT
#5417
On July 06 2013 00:22 Tewks44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2013 00:20 ranshaked wrote:
People are saying on twitter that this autopsy guy has proven that Zimmerman was lying. What happens when the defense has their expert take the stand? Will they contradict each other?


I'm not watching the trial, what did the autopsy guy say that disputed Zimmerman's story?


Two things:
1) Trayvon had no injuries to his right hand (he is right handed)
2) He was alive for 1-10 minutes in pain and suffering, but couldn't have spoken, so it was impossible for him to say, "you got me"
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 05 2013 15:34 GMT
#5418
What's the deal with this doctor? There's no way that he has never testified as an expert in court before. Experts are supposed to answer hypotheticals.
ranshaked
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States870 Posts
July 05 2013 15:36 GMT
#5419
On July 06 2013 00:34 xDaunt wrote:
What's the deal with this doctor? There's no way that he has never testified as an expert in court before. Experts are supposed to answer hypotheticals.


He's clearly biased. He avoids all the questions that would support the defense by saying he doesn't know, when it was clearly written in the notes.
Msr
Profile Joined March 2011
Korea (South)495 Posts
July 05 2013 15:39 GMT
#5420
I always tune into the trial at the wierdest times...
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