On October 09 2012 08:40 flamewheel wrote: I'd like to add though that at later levels, a poorly-performing Batrider can disappear into the jungle and come out with levels and items easily. Napalm & Firefly allow you to kill three camps in one go.
Also you can have a support stack a camp 3-4 times while you are mid and quickly kill everything for a huge bonus.
^wow FW been doing serious posting lately :3 and ya i think jungle bat is a waste unless you are forced to do so or if you had a hard mid lane (1v2 etc), you can stack the camps close to mid and then firefly them to get lotsa gold/exp.
On October 09 2012 08:17 Kipsate wrote: No LoL talk please
in other news, 4.2 agility PL midgame Aquila Drums Tranq Diffusal is amazing.
Just did a hardlane pl with soulring+tranq+radiance(+magicwand) at 19mins, my favourite build is still radiance->heart->diffu. The agi gain buff made him a more reliable (hard)carry now and even more scarier than before in late game.
I totally disagree with Flamewheel on batrider. I prefer to play him as a jungler, especially in pub as you basicly take almost 0 damage with a very small amount of regen required if you do it 'right'(which i can only in 1 out of 10 batrider game). Here is a good example replay: 47518241. The idea is that you gona pull from 1 lane (radiant-mid, dire-top) and let the creep tank for you until level 2. Then just keep stacking a big camp(start at min 1) and clear it while pulling until level 3. This way you 'help' your lane denying a creep wave each minute and still guarantee the quota of 1 level per min. Knowing some certain unreachable spot that let you attack creeps from high ground will save a ton of your regen too. Once you get level 6-7 you can start clearing 2-3 camps at once and rotate stacking big campS every 1 min (clear 1 stacked camp and stack the other -> clear etc) such that you can get dagger around 11-12 mins (alternatively ganking at level 6 works too). Compare to laning batrider, jungling does make your team lane much 'weaker' but it a guarantee farm on bat that could give him the items he needs for ganking(dagger, force staff, eul) entering mid game. With the recent forcestaff cost increase, i prefer jungling much much more than laning.
Agreed to disagree. Yet if your main point of contention is that "jungling guarantees farm on bat", again I point out that you should have absolutely no trouble getting last hits in mid lane. Additional damage from Napalm ensures you won't get denied, and no enemy hero can attack you without getting stacked.
To preclude a few arguments...
If you have a tough lane mid (1v2) you can still go stack and kill the small & hard camp closest to mid when the wave isn't in your favor. If you are getting ganked by side lane supports the same side lane supports would be ganking you in the jungle anyway.
Perhaps if I start seeing jungle Batrider in professional games I'll rethink my stance. As it stands right now, precedence is on my side.
Bat rapes almost anyone mid or in a lane. Go look up orange's game of him post 6.74 parity changes on dota-academy.
Go mid or safelane, if you're having trouble get tranquils otherwise get a wand, boots, bottle(if mid), then force staff and blink dagger. Napalm wins almost all matchups, firefly lets you do some escapes other heroes can only dream of while killing people diving you.
bat jungle can actually be hilariously abusive, especially on radiant, going lv1 firefly and casually flying over and burning down all the trees mid means u can pull the mid jungle creep into lane, then pull the hard camp into the remaining creeps, you get farm and win mid
Again, there is a reason why bat doesnt mid in PUB. He has 0 rune control. You could out last hit the oppose laner as much as possible but if you have 0 rune control and a very crabby escape mechanic, I dont think you can last in mid long without bottle crowd. This often results a vanguard first batrider which often negate the effectiveness of such offensive hero. In competitive game, bat position has been switched to short lane solo a lot due to the need of farm and protection he requires in early level. Imagining a VS roamer stunning your bat solomid vs qop, i cant think of a way you could escape. Not even counting that nalpalm will not help you in denying therefore against experienced vs bat player its a free farm lane.
In contrast, i see very little to non-weakness in jungling batrider. Similar to the previous build that i introduce on teleport first jungling furion, jungling batrider is much much safer by abusing unreachable terrain, keeping your HP high while flying vision prevent any sort of ganking.
DS jungle + Bat solo safe lane. Surge + Shell + Firefly double kills at level 2 ezpz
Note: this is easier to pull off with Bat on the lane than the reverse because it's easier for bat to bait a position where he can surge on top of the enemy, and allows him to build up stacks on them at level 1.
It would be cool if huskars ult would always take him to 40% life even if he had less than 40%. So he would essentially heal every time he uses an aghs ult.
It would be cool if huskars ult would always take him to 40% life even if he had less than 40%. So he would essentially heal every time he uses an aghs ult.
On October 09 2012 10:34 PrinceXizor wrote: Heh really who believe riot anyway?
also i'm pretty much convinced i'll never make very high skill bracket and stay there, I feel like it's only for the people who got beta early.
PrinceXizor™
On October 09 2012 11:33 TheYango wrote: You guys are doing it wrong.
DS jungle + Bat solo safe lane. Surge + Shell + Firefly double kills at level 2 ezpz
Note: this is easier to pull off with Bat on the lane than the reverse because it's easier for bat to bait a position where he can surge on top of the enemy, and allows him to build up stacks on them at level 1.
On October 09 2012 11:06 NB wrote: Again, there is a reason why bat doesnt mid in PUB. He has 0 rune control. You could out last hit the oppose laner as much as possible but if you have 0 rune control and a very crabby escape mechanic, I dont think you can last in mid long without bottle crowd. This often results a vanguard first batrider which often negate the effectiveness of such offensive hero. In competitive game, bat position has been switched to short lane solo a lot due to the need of farm and protection he requires in early level. Imagining a VS roamer stunning your bat solomid vs qop, i cant think of a way you could escape. Not even counting that nalpalm will not help you in denying therefore against experienced vs bat player its a free farm lane.
In contrast, i see very little to non-weakness in jungling batrider. Similar to the previous build that i introduce on teleport first jungling furion, jungling batrider is much much safer by abusing unreachable terrain, keeping your HP high while flying vision prevent any sort of ganking.
0 Rune control? It is better than a ton of current mids. If you aren't a blink hero he can kill you while you go for rune. He can flamebreak you onto highground, He can clear the waves quickly and push you back. His escape mechanism mid is better than it is in safe lane with all the cliff possibilities. Vanguard is a shit item on bat and he really doesn't need it, especially with his big strength buff. There are just better options. If you have any reaction time at all as Bat you can firefly right over the cliff and suddenly VS has wasted her time. You really can't call it a free farm lane when even a blink hero like QoP needs to worry about getting stacked on while creeping or harassing.
Bat in the right hands has a load of potential mid, especially now. Hell we've already seen competent bat play from the pros denying duel lane mids free lane wins and pubbers are going to underestimate how fast he will kill them.
EPT
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