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Recently I used the TLPD game database to calculate elo ratings split by matchup (as opposed to the overall ones that are currently in the DB). These are interesting because you can see who is/was best at a particular matchup even if they weren't necessarily the best player overall. I also find it interesting that the ratings for the most part correspond *very* well with common intuitions on which players were/are good at which matchups, which seems to indicate that they're at least somewhat correct/useful even when they surprise us  .
Notes:
- These are peak ratings, not current ones.
- I've given the top 10 in each matchup here.
- Players of each race in the MU are listed together because their ratings are derived from the same set of games and therefore are comparable.
- Only the relative values between players in a particular MU matter, not the absolute values.
- "Inflation" is probably not an issue here because the average rating of players in this system is fixed at 2000.0 by definition.
- I used k = 25, which I think is the same as what TLPD uses for overall ratings (I also calculated overall ratings and ended up with values very close to the TLPD ones).
- Only players who have played at least 20 games in the relevant matchup are included on the lists.
So:
All-time ZvT/TvZ peak ratings:
 iloveoov: 2232
 Jaedong: 2225
NaDa: 2205
sAviOr: 2197
Sea: 2197
BoxeR: 2195
GoRush: 2188
XellOs: 2185
YellOw: 2183
Hwasin: 2177
All-time PvZ/ZvP peak ratings:
sAviOr: 2240
 Bisu: 2165
rA: 2157
July: 2154
Anytime: 2143
ChoJJa: 2131
YellOw: 2125
Kal: 2107
Luxury: 2107
JinNam: 2105
(Jaedong is #11 by 1 point)
All-time PvT peak ratings:
Flash: 2224
Stork: 2206
iloveoov: 2179
rA: 2175
NaDa: 2174
Reach: 2154
Midas: 2151
Kingdom: 2143
Sea: 2136
Much: 2124
All-time ZvZ peak ratings:
Jaedong: 2204
ChoJJa: 2178
JJu: 2161
GoRush: 2160
Luxury: 2149
July: 2142
sAviOr: 2131
YellOw: 2128
ZergMaN: 2118
GGPlay: 2099
All-time PvP peak ratings:
BeSt: 2185
Stork: 2180
Reach: 2139
Pusan: 2137
Anytime: 2125
rA: 2104
Kingdom: 2099
Much: 2080
Bisu: 2078
free[gm]: 2069
All-time TvT peak ratings:
XellOs: 2193
Sea: 2192
NaDa: 2183
Flash: 2178
Iris: 2177
iloveoov: 2159
Goodfriend: 2153
Casy: 2145
Midas: 2141
Canata: 2138
There are lots of interesting things here, including both confirmed suspicions (yep, Jaedong is really good at ZvZ and Flash is really good at TvP) and things that might be a little more interesting, such as Xellos and Sea being #1 and #2 in TvT. Savior's peak ZvP was *far* beyond anyone else, so no wonder the guy who dethroned him made it to #2.
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wow this is very interesting 0.0
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Melbourne5338 Posts
IIRC TLPD used something like K=20 for players with less than 20 games and K=40 for others or the otherway around.
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This is an awesome idea. Major props to you sir. I have to say, I'm surprised to see Goodfriend in the TvT ratings. Everyone else on that list has some (usually a lot) of fans, but I've rarely heard of Goodfriend. Damn that person who edged out JD in ZvP by one place, but I just know that will change in the series vs Much.
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Bisu looks more and more like a one-matchup-wunderkid.
Also surprised me that July's ZvP was *that* good. Wasn't around back then, but I tended to hear more about his ZvT virtuoso (ie. iloveoov) than his ZvP.
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From the looks of it, iloveoov was the all-around most dominant player ever.
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CA10832 Posts
nada 
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On July 09 2008 16:27 pachi wrote:
IIRC TLPD used something like K=20 for players with less than 20 games and K=40 for others or the otherway around.
Probably the other way around, but at any rate yeah, I didn't use those exact values. It shouldn't make much difference for this purpose, since I'm not directly comparing these ratings to the overall ones (and anyway, the overall ones I calculated with k=25 were within about +-10 points of the TLPD values on average).
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The list is surprisingly accurate though obviously there are clear flaws in it to draw concrete conclusions from it.
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Really glad oov is still on each list in a high spot.
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No offense but I dont think is very accurate. Jaedong and oov are nearly identical on tvz/zvt. But who was the one who went on a 27 game win streak? Yeah....I just cant see how they're even remotely close.
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On July 09 2008 16:52 ScarFace wrote:
No offense but I dont think is very accurate. Jaedong and oov are nearly identical on tvz/zvt. But who was the one who went on a 27 game win streak? Yeah....I just cant see how they're even remotely close.
If you care about records you can look at records. Ratings take into account the quality of the opposition too.
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On July 09 2008 16:52 ScarFace wrote:
No offense but I dont think is very accurate. Jaedong and oov are nearly identical on tvz/zvt. But who was the one who went on a 27 game win streak? Yeah....I just cant see how they're even remotely close.
The time period of said 27 game rapestreak plus time/maps/them being just STATS (seriously, when did stats matter when you're about to play someone?).
I motion you bump up Sea's TvT by two points so he can post smiley faces when he sees this thread.
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On July 09 2008 16:55 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 16:52 ScarFace wrote:
No offense but I dont think is very accurate. Jaedong and oov are nearly identical on tvz/zvt. But who was the one who went on a 27 game win streak? Yeah....I just cant see how they're even remotely close. If you care about records you can look at records. Ratings take into account the quality of the opposition too. I did. Except for some wins against thewind and silver, oov was playing the best of the best for the time. Yellow, jju, July, etc. ELO is suppose to reflect comparative dominance, in this it has failed. OOV dominated against the best zvt's in a far longer stretch, but the poorer stats of his opponents have misconstrued the results. In reality, Jaedongs streak is laughable compared to Oov's.
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On July 09 2008 16:52 ScarFace wrote:
No offense but I dont think is very accurate. Jaedong and oov are nearly identical on tvz/zvt. But who was the one who went on a 27 game win streak? Yeah....I just cant see how they're even remotely close.
It's just ELO ratings. I mean, it's an interesting pointing system, but it's not the gospel truth. Actually I think this list has been arranged pretty well considering how flawed the all-time ELO peaks list is.
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Eh, wasn't Xellos considered the god of TvT for a while, with that being his best MU by far? How is him being #1 surprising?
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Good to hear that Flash's TvP is the best - hope he can manage to keep it that way and improve his other MUs as well  .
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United States10774 Posts
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kind of wished savior would come back, ya know?
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Why isnt flash in the tvz elo ratings, he had a record of like 13-4 a few games back and has only lost to lux recently?
E: 1000th post
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EPT
