This started as a PM that I wrote to an SC2 fan who'd been interested in BW vods; he was a little put off by Jaedong and Flash repeatedly kicking each other in the shins. I think it would be good if this message reached a wider SC2 audience though. The TL;DR: Here are some better vods. Exchanging awesome vods between fanbases > flaming between fanbases. (Yeah, you know the thread I'm talking about.) I'm directing this message to the BW community, but especially to the SC2 community, at large:
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If you're interested in watching BW vods, you should definitely know that Flash vs JD is not the best place for a new viewer. Flash and JD are a cut above the rest and tend to play very standard against the field, but against one another they use so many mind games that 90% of their games are over before they start. The two players are very even --- I think the record stands at 21-21 if you count just the main leagues --- but the games themselves tend to be lopsided. BW fans themselves have often been disappointed by how many superhyped Flash vs Jaedong games are decided by proxies/timing rushes/greed openings/etc. They just play like that against each other; perhaps because they know each other so well. But don't give up! There are a lot of entertaining games out there that a new viewer can enjoy. I'd like to point you to a few. First, some "real" Flash vs Jaedong:
1. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Grand Line, WCG Korea finals 2010]
[Very long, epic, be warned that the ending gets a little slow but it's interesting throughout]
3. [Flash vs Jaedong @ Rush Hour, Winner's League 2009 playoffs, KTF vs OZ] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11567_Flash_vs_Jaedong/vod [Lots of action and blood. Jaedong has taken down 3 of KTF's players back-to-back --- can he complete the all-kill or will Flash block him and reverse all-kill?]
Here are some games that show why Flash is "God Young Ho." Partly it's because he wrecks anyone who tries to proxy him --- nobody has brainhacks like him (unless it's Boxer). But I'm not including all those games, they're not too fun to watch unless you're already a Flash fan. These are games that show Flash's dominance against the "normal" field.
5. [Flash vs Best @ Fortress, Proleague 2010] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50120_BeSt_vs_Flash/vod [Flash lost to Best (a top PvT'er) in their previous encounter. In this revenge match Flash chose to crush him with a strategy so micro-intensive and demanding that it's never even been *attempted* before or since.]
Finally, here are some random games that I remember as being good.
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod [Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]
9. [Savior vs Iris @ Neo Arkanoid, Shinhan OSL 2006 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/1664_Iris_vs_sAviOr/vod [That's right, 2006. This was one of the first BW games I watched so I remember it fondly. This is the deciding game of a tense teamkill Bo5. Savior was one of the greatest Zerg players, eclipsed only by Jaedong, but he's not mentioned much anymore because he shafted everyone in the match-fixing scandal. I haven't seen the game in a while, so I'm not sure how it stands up to the others in terms of absolute skill level, but it's a fun watch.]
Well there you go. This is the tip of the iceberg --- I could easily rattle off 20 to 30 (40? 50?) other favorite games but finding the vods takes time. Also I'm deliberately avoiding short/rush games --- not because they're bad but because these games here show more. A lot of rush games have amazing micro though.
I don't see any reason why BW and SC2 fans shouldn't enjoy both. I'm not very familiar with SC2; you can probably tell I'm kind of a die-hard BW fan. I'm sure I'll always like BW more than SC2. But both games have a lot to recommend them and both fanbases could be a lot better collectively about sharing what aspects of the game they enjoy.
So if you have any favorite SC2 vods you can shoot them my way, or post them here, and I will make sure to watch 'em!
PS: It's kind of criminal that I didn't include any Bisu vods. Sorry, I guess I'm a Flash/Jaedong fanboy. Just watch any Bisu PvZ, it's art.
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Thanks guys. I'll come back later. If I get any cool SC2 vods to watch, I'll be happy; and if any SC2-only fans out there see this and get a taste of BW too, I'll be happy. 'Til then!
I've always thought the best BW gateway is a good series, not just individual games. Like Iris vs. GGPlay OSL finals, or Jaedong vs. Fantasy OSL finals. Good stuff.
There are some really nice games in the first 2 seasons, and they are casted by Tasteless at his absolute best which should be enough to make any SC2-fan interested.
As an SC2 only player, I find BW to be really fascinating (of the only several vods I've watched so far) -- especially on how its TvZ is very similar, yet very different from SC2's TvZ. For instance, BW Z takes gas much later than SC2 Z in this matchup, and gets a very fast third (macro hatch) as a result -- because speedlings seem a lot stronger, and the rush distance feels like cross position? Overall the matchup feels a lot more stable in BW, since zerg can hold off any 2-base terran attack with lurker and tech safely to deflier. There just doesn't feel like there's any "safe" equivalent in SC2, the closest thing I can think of is speed banelings, but terrain, army positioning and micro heavily heavily influence how successful a SC2 Z can hold off a T push, whereas in BW it looks like the Z doesn't have to go absolutely nuts, just muta harass + cutoff reinforcements to buy time to get lurker, and things proceed smoothly from there.
For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod [Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]
still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod
also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod [Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]
still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod
also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod [Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]
still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod
also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
Yea at 6 minutes in that VOD...it just goes to show how much preparation a player goes into a game with after hundreds of games practiced just for the 1 game. Its pretty amazing ^^
8. [Fantasy vs Jaedong @, Bacchus OSL 2009 Semifinals] http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27100_Fantasy_vs_Jaedong/vod [Fantasy and Jaedong had a terrific rivalry in 2009. Fantasy 2-0'd Jaedong in the Proleague Grand Finals, essentially assuring SKT's victory, but in return Jeadong overcame Fantasy 3-2 and 3-1 in two of his OSL championships. This game comes from Jaedong's golden mouse run.]
still blown away at the timing at 6 mins in the vod
also, if someone could help me remember the game i'm thinking of, it's been bothering me for a while. zvt, can't remember the terran (i want to say forgg but i know that's not right) game was on sin chupung and jaedong ended up doing 2 hatch muta with 2 control groups of muta.
Very awesome game of old Brood War legend Yellow taking down Bisu against the odds with very old school tactics on Heartbreak Ridge. One of my personal favorites since I started watching BW. That it was a ZvP makes it all the more incredible.
On May 14 2011 06:10 mucker wrote: For me it is all about Bisu vs Yellow on HBR when I introduce people to BW. Not because the gameplay itself is all that super amazing but because the excitement of the crowd is so incredible it really shows how great BW is as a spectator sport and how passionately people can feel about it. Even if you don't really know the players you can't help but get excited watching that game.
Totally agreed! I've shown it to friends who couldn't care less about Starcraft and they enjoyed it. I managed to get a very good friend who I talk sports with interested in Brood War/SC2 through it. The crowd's roar as Yellow takes down the current generations PvZ star is something to behold.
EPT
