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On November 13 2015 00:42 sicklucker wrote:
Hts from your perspective you know one of art/rels is scum. Even if your pretty sure on rels its still silly to nominate the other. Im in the same spot with rayn and am only willing after he spewed out of the game. If we were desperate i would understand taking that leap of faith but I think we already have a solid 4 we can come back ot that decisions on mission 4 or 5
I understand and do not disagree here.
I would submit me/you/Shockey/Coag.
The real problem is if Shockey cannot trust Coag, and you want me to hold off on Artanis, then I don't know how the hell I'm going to confidently figure out Kita v Vivax before a (now) 1800 deadline.
Once I clear the airport, I have to work 6-7h, that will take me easily closer to 2000 EDT.
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I do not find anything fundamentally wrong with what Kita has done EXCEPT THINKING THAT RELS IS TOWN.
And people shouting that 2 mafia cannot have voted NO, it's called dissociation. Is it LESS LIKELY than just ONE mafia? Of course. But I made the point that Xatalos was already on the team, he just needed to vote yes. That's IT.
Why do you think we're in the position that we are in right now? Scum know they have had us fooled. I'm not saying it's absolutely the case and sicklucker I get why you want to townread Rels over Artanis but there are a number of things in Rels filter I do NOT like, and especially the flip in reads on Artanis/rayn/myself....
rayn being mafia? no. Just no. I don't even. Among other things.
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On November 13 2015 00:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Because HtS votes yes on both failed missions and has the most consistent yes votes along side with Xata and Rayn. Doesn't make her scum, but that voting pattern scares the shit out of me.
Did you read my explanations for why I voted yes and do you think they are town or scum motivated? Ask that to yourself.
If you don't buy it fine, but I also tried to explain to you why rayn's behaviour is NAI. A lot of people DO shit up the thread as mafia, but rayn will always pick shitfights as town. It is just who he is as a player.
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sicklucker, you were mafia in Guardians with rayn, send him a link to the mafia qt for that game.
Now I have to go, and fight the customs battle at JFK. Christ I hate this airport.
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On November 13 2015 01:30 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 01:28 kitaman27 wrote:On November 13 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
Rels, I will say it a fifth time but me (or anyone for that matter) thinking of nominated teams rounds ahead is not mafia motivated. It is NAI and I've been doing that all game thinking out loud. No it's not the same thing. In that particular instance: you proposed to send mission 2 before knowing the result of mission 1. Mission 1 failed. So it's possible you wanted the same infiltrated team to be sent two times before we could realize it. lol we'd have to be pretty slow to fall for that wouldn't we? There is a full 48 hour period between the two. You're saying that her plan was to hope nobody noticed the team failed or.....? This has to be the most sketchy thing you've said all game Rels.
It's stuff like this that makes me think he's reaching for scumreads.
Post #2341 is a good example of this.
Look at his read progression on Artanis/rayn and myself from his posts into 2343/2344 from 2364 and 2365.
How does he put rayn as mafia? Look at the flips on Artanis and myself.
Also Rels calling me defensive (ie a reason to call me scum) when it is he who brings up that same reasoning 4h ago in #2566, how would he expect me not to respond to that? He's been hammering that point up all game until Kita called him on it.
From my mindset, if he's town (and I don't think he is for other reasons) he's not familiar with thinking ahead, if he's mafia, he needs a reason to see my behaviour as mafia.
Regardless of familiarity, the fact that Kita is able to see a town mindset from #2566 and Rels was not able to for the better part of the game (after me telling him multiple times) is telling.
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1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei
1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining
1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters -
SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3)
Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed)
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Also Kita in Drams you need to find where he cased Trfel and MoosyDoosy (who was the town RB in that game, when he claimed scum plan blew up in their face) but that has a lot of the doings in the way where Rels cased me for things that didn't make me mafia.
If I can find that shit on here you'll see why a lot of his posting can easily come from mafia mindset. The kicker is you need to see the parallels from those two games plus this game and you need to see how he pushes townies that arent' clear in their thinking, or in the case of Trfel, someone who is nto very confident in the way they are going.
Rels' tone is very similar between both games. If you want a decent town game I would try Newbie 13 (I want to say 13, it was the one where n00bking rage quit).
Obviously I'm not delusional here, 90% of this game I've been on my phone so I've not been able to case or articulate the way I've wanted to like previous games, it's been almost exclusively thought dumpting all game from me and I have just not adjusted well to that.
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Coagulation, I don't know whereabouts stateside you are, but I know you're town, everyone except the current leader thinks your town. Anything you can do to help Shockey get the tunnel off you would help the rest of us greatly. I don't care how you do it, just please do it before 1800 EDT.
Because right now, scum see an opportunity to get their final mafia on this team and this is the equivalent of triple lylo and we honestly need all hands on deck.
We are having a VERY difficult time between Kita/Vivax and some looking into Artanis. I'll continue doing my part but you really need to help by doing yours.
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On November 13 2015 03:10 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 02:55 Rels wrote:On November 13 2015 02:52 Half the Sky wrote:
1h45m spent in customs....someone please kill me.
Kita, regarding the scum meta on SOTW 2 and Drams, being on mobile, I cannot quote, but I will do my best to try and direct you based on everything I recall.
From those two games, Rels thrives in environments where there are scummy townies. The same parallel is here - you have Schokey and myself scumread nearly all game until this most recent cycle and sicklucker has and still has chock decent doubt on him.
Let me try and break it down as best I can.
SOTW 2 - scumteam were Damdred/Rels/Fidei
1 The scummy townies from my own recollection from DAY ONE are: Shining (day vigged day 1)/Dandel Ion (lynched day 1 because of activity/nonsensical)/LightningStrike and there might have been one more. If I recall right, focus on the interactions between Rels vs Lightning Strike and I BELEIVE Dandel Ion. HE IS OUT TO GET THEM.
Rels is able to take control of the thread day 2 onwards because he is the only one that fully understands the complex mechanics of SOTW 2 and rayn was forced to trust him. A lot of the tone reads you cite here are present there and you will see are NAI.
Battle of the Drams - scumteam sicklucker/Rels/Shining
1 Again focus on interactions. The scummy townies this game were scott31337 (replaced in and mislynched day 1 for J-Roc a smurf who left him in a bad position), coolTLname (mislynched day 2, unfamiliar with TL mafia style coming from SC2 mafia).
He pushed Trfel hard early day 1 (607/620) from baic questions, coolTL name from #751/753 in that thread. Also look at 751/753 posts in Drams and compare that to the posts in this game where he's pushing Artanis. There are places he stretches the truth and I caught where he was doing that with Artanis this game.
And people who want to townread Rels on activity. No.
Filters -
SOTW 2 - 21 pages (3 cycles I think, endgamed n3)
Drams - 28 pages (3 cycles I think, conceded n3 as the entire scumteam was exposed) So what scummy townie am I attacking this game ? Who are my danden ion / bm / coolTLname (lol my phone has this name registered cause I typed it so much) / JRoc ?
Easy, me and sicklucker whom any townie familiar with his game should know that he's not the most articulate person in the world. He's been jumped on all game for stuff not lining up. Which is exactly why I sought his side form his perspective as screwy as he might play this game, that's the way it is.
I've played games with him as town, as mafia and hosted several games where he was mafia. If ANYONE should have his alignment spot on especially by lategame, it's me. Early game, not so much but lategame absolutely. LightningStrike isn't present this game and neither is marv/JAT/etc but they are examples of others who do better with figuring him out.
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On November 13 2015 01:00 ShoCkeyy wrote:
##Nominate ShoCkeyy, Vivax, HtS, Sicklucker
oops.
I am going to look into Vivax and the voting patterns again....since that is what my priority should be.
Here's the thing, Rels is mafia. This is my world.
Rels wanting to replace Vivax out is scaring the shit out of me (#2640) and earlier he wanted to swap Shockey in (forget the mission number) for Superbia (#2156). The mafia motivation for this is an easier fall guy whom at the time was being universally scumread or near universally scumread.
This would point to a Xatalos/Rels/Kitaman team in which case I'd have to re-review sicklucker and Vivax's points against them.
Do the votes make sense....
This would mean rayn was right early game to be more hesistant to townread Kita....and that Rels townread....ignorance or a reason to get him on the team.
WHY IS THIS GAME SO HARD.
#rantover
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Those posts alone, that means by association Vivax is town. But I need time to reval the votes....
I've reached my destination in Manhattan, I have to go for now.
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And to anyone who has played with Coagulation, realise that I have not, does he normally lurk as town?
(No I am not trying to determine his alignment, but rather trying to figure out whether we focus on getting Shockey out of the tunnel or we try and work on Vivax.)
Off I go lovelies.
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On November 13 2015 03:23 Vivax wrote:
I'm at a friends pc while he eats, wont stick around for long until I get back home.
Coag, something's off about you? Where's the townie seal I am eagerly expecting?
Er....I take it the answer to my previous question was no?
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On November 13 2015 03:31 Vivax wrote:
You don't just walk into TL and townread kita.
Especially when he pushes my slot who will start expelling massive townie bricks when I have more time for this game.
I just went a bit over Xatalos last pages and I like where his head is, actually. I need more time for this game :> , but my SL read will probably stay as it is, so will the kita read. The last mafia is tricky but I'm leaning towards HTS.
This is fair enough. Because I haven't forgotten what you did in Gaiden when you nailed the remaining members of the scumteam so I know what you are capable of. If you are town, please make it easier for me to upvote what Shockey has.
Also remember there was early discussion on why Kita's posts were NAI. I haven't forgotten that either. And sicklucker who I am strongly townreading had a lot of suspicion towards Kita.
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For future reference - waiting for a massive print job to finish up so went through sicklucker's filter as to why he saw Kita as scum.
On November 07 2015 11:04 sicklucker wrote:
kitaman the angle your pushing is pushed on me everygame EVERYGAME. I ignore it because its dumb and it does not make anyone scum. Its literraly a mix up of words. Even if I said it the way you want me to have said it that does not make me scum
On November 07 2015 21:44 sicklucker wrote:
Anyway we need to vote no to todays noms its going to fail over half the time its just a bad mission with the info I have. I obviously have more info but come on you guys can peice this together to you have to. If you guys dont get off your ass we already lost this game. Id say town has under a 10% chance reading the thread the last day.
Mission team needs to include hts and rels. I might even gamble with someone like shockey at thes point. I think the third scum is one of kita/super who is trying to distance and put scum on me. Like all kita is talking about is some stupid shit I wrote out of context over a week ago. Whatever one of you is town get your head out of your ass
On November 08 2015 01:49 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 01:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wait why do you think kitaman is scum? you dont? I have no reason to believe he cares about whats going on except putting scum on me and asking me the same stupid qeustion
On November 09 2015 03:40 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2015 03:02 kitaman27 wrote:On November 09 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote:
xata if your the town in rayn/you your literally losing town the game thinking the way you do. People like shockey/rels who voted no on a mission that failed are not going to be scum very often. you need to adjust your reads as scum bro Two out of your three scum reads voted no, didn't they? Or am I wrong about your reads listed above? its the worst attempt i ever ever seen. Like you dont even know your top scum reads. reads? your wrong about like 4 people on that list. more like town shockey rels hts scum everyone else but especially you
On November 09 2015 03:48 sicklucker wrote:
kitas whole being town platform this game is questioning me on my reads. but he just proved he did not even know my reads? anyone? anyone seeing this?
On November 12 2015 18:55 sicklucker wrote:
anyway kita it looks like the majority of the game dont want you and your buddy on any missions. so take your rels town read to the timeout corner
Going to task Personality Mafia parallels tonight with this game....
Also someone else (Artanis? I forget whom?) said they had issues following Kita's reads throughout the game. I know earlier I cited the two list posts or the one list post or whatever....
Maybe another parallel to look for there.
Takeaway from Personality Mafia where mafia Kita carried was that his game was squeaky clean (WaveofShadow) and the amount of posting increased exponentially as the game went into lategame (Damdred).
So now I have to crosscheck lack of reads here with Personality and then contrast all the parallels from these two games with more recent town games....ones I remember are JOAT and Aperture. Both spamfests. Great.
At least this gives me a starting point for the Kita tinfoil.
And off I go yet again.
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On November 13 2015 03:31 Vivax wrote:
You don't just walk into TL and townread kita.
Especially when he pushes my slot who will start expelling massive townie bricks when I have more time for this game.
I just went a bit over Xatalos last pages and I like where his head is, actually. I need more time for this game :> , but my SL read will probably stay as it is, so will the kita read. The last mafia is tricky but I'm leaning towards HTS.
sicklucker and Kita have been at it at each other nearly all game. Why do you think (or am I misreading) they are double bussing? Are you sure those interactions are scum on scum?
How do you know that Kita isn't doing the same thing to sicklucker that you claim he's (analogously) doing to you?
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I read that entire sicklucker exchange and there was one post that made me think there is a legit reason (albeit a wrong one and I kept making the less likely argument as parcel as to why we are in the position that we are in right now) for his changing reads on you/confusion on Rels but if enough people are finding his play confusing he needs to explain it himself when he wakes up.
It's not going to do town any good if I'm the only one in the game understanding his approach to the game.
Lex do you have any additional experience with scum Kita btw that I should be on the lookout for? Going to extensively meta him tonight. Some of the things in 2765 have me a bit wary at the moment (particularly WoS' caution about his squeaky clean scumgame) but I am going to try and compare to his games in JOAT/Aperture to be sure.
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On November 13 2015 06:56 Vivax wrote:
I can tell you already that I would send or accept HTS/Coag/Artanis/myself.
I can compromise on swapping myself out with either Shockey or Xata (who I think is more likely to be town than SL) if you don't trust me.
If you also TR rayn who in my opinion is a good player but had to be wrong on someone last cycle, that sort of coincides with his reads, with exception of HTS/Shockey.
I'm so sure on Xatalos and Rels as spies at this point but if we must compromise and you want SL out, then Shockey in for sure.
Also the frustrating thing here is that rayn is town but Coag needs to do his part in getting Shockey out of the tunnel. Goddamnit.
Part of the problem there from Shockey's POV is that rayn voted for two failed missions and was in two failed missions but that must mean that who else is scum? But there's a reason that not even scum are trying to bury him for that even. His reads were off this game (Shockey/myself) so that should lend clear to him as to why he voted that way and put the people on his mission that he did.
And to be quite frank, if it comes down to you and Xatalos, I would take you over Xatalos by a country mile. Because I really really think he's mafia and if he gets on a team again, this game is over.
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Artanis, I'm at Xata/Rels and one of Kita/Vivax but a big caveat for Vivax is that he's not much time to play this game.
I know what he is capable of when he bleeds town, namely Gaiden. So I am going to give him his chance.
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EPT
