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Active: 1109 users

TLnet Poll - If major tournaments released replays, how wo…

If major tournaments released replays, how would you use them? :

Learning resource for strategies and builds (3632)54%
Not interested in watching tournament replays (1503)23%
Supplementary viewing source /w VODs/streams (852)13%
Primary viewing source over VODs/streams (576)9%
Other (109)2%

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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1 2 3 Next All
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
May 06 2013 04:29 GMT
#1
Seeing this, I can kinda imagine why releasing replays may be "bad" for some players. Look at Stephano's Max Roach, after it's been dissected, he lost prominence.
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
May 06 2013 04:36 GMT
#2
I just never really watch replays. I prefer streams/VODs.
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
May 06 2013 05:30 GMT
#3
On May 06 2013 13:29 EnumaAvalon wrote:
Seeing this, I can kinda imagine why releasing replays may be "bad" for some players. Look at Stephano's Max Roach, after it's been dissected, he lost prominence.

You can do the same disection w/ a vod if they keep the production tab open, which is pretty standard, its just more difficult
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33425 Posts
May 06 2013 05:38 GMT
#4
If I can't catch something live, and replays are up in a timely manner, I can't see a situation where I'd watch the VOD over the rep.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
May 06 2013 05:42 GMT
#5
On May 06 2013 14:30 DBS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2013 13:29 EnumaAvalon wrote:
Seeing this, I can kinda imagine why releasing replays may be "bad" for some players. Look at Stephano's Max Roach, after it's been dissected, he lost prominence.

You can do the same disection w/ a vod if they keep the production tab open, which is pretty standard, its just more difficult


A lot more difficult. Since you have no control unless the casters will have the production tab on forever.
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
May 06 2013 07:44 GMT
#6
Replays give you control, and look better.
ॐ
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20299 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 08:02:27
May 06 2013 07:59 GMT
#7
On May 06 2013 13:29 EnumaAvalon wrote:
Seeing this, I can kinda imagine why releasing replays may be "bad" for some players. Look at Stephano's Max Roach, after it's been dissected, he lost prominence.


You dont need a replay to identify 14pool 3hatch 6 min double gas 7 min roach warren drone to 50 and max on roaches man.. It's actually one of the simplest things in the game to do, just slight ordering of things like queens and overlords can make it a bit better if you go in depth.

I mean once it's been done in 10+ games, it's not the hardest of strategies to pull apart. Something i would say is much more influential from replays would be for example Parting immortal all in from WOL days - Without an exact replay, structuring, pretty exact timing on gasses 3 and 4, gateways, robo, map of chronoboost usage, especially with the inbase forge stuff he did - it's impossible to play anywhere near as effectively as he did. The average masters player missed his timings by, literally, a minute or more, without a lot of replay disecting and guiding, even many GM players did some things pretty fundamentally wrong with the style of all in, or defending against it. I got into a debate once about if an opening would hold immortal all in, i got replays of it beating GM level immortal all ins; yet they still didn't have any kind of good timings, the kind that would invalidate the opening in question

Casters don't really ever go into any kind of depth aside from "oh he's doing an immortal all in" or "he's dropping some extra gates now" etc - while with roach max all you need is for example 14pool, 3hatch before gas, 6 min double gas, 7 min roach warren + evo and an idea of how far to drone, you need to go much more in depth for many other things.

And for the stuff that doesn't require you to be as in depth? Replays are just much easier and more user friendly.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Naphal
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2099 Posts
May 06 2013 09:16 GMT
#8
i would take over in the final moments of the finals and feel like a king (or kong)
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
May 06 2013 09:51 GMT
#9
On May 06 2013 13:29 EnumaAvalon wrote:
Seeing this, I can kinda imagine why releasing replays may be "bad" for some players. Look at Stephano's Max Roach, after it's been dissected, he lost prominence.


That's oversimplifying the competitive environment. There's many other factors that may have contributed; personal issues, practice regime, etc.
dirtydurb82
Profile Joined December 2012
United States178 Posts
May 06 2013 09:55 GMT
#10
Hey, I'm just looking for great games to enjoy!
"The only way to grow E-Sports is to tell the truth." -Richard Lewis
MtlGuitarist97
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1539 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 10:39:23
May 06 2013 10:38 GMT
#11
On May 06 2013 14:38 Waxangel wrote:
If I can't catch something live, and replays are up in a timely manner, I can't see a situation where I'd watch the VOD over the rep.

If it's two casters I like, I could see why I'd watch the vod

Honestly though, most of the time if I'm trying to learn a build the replays are better than the vods. I don't have a preference though. If I want to enjoy the game, I'll watch the vods. If I'm studying it so I can figure out the player's strategy, I'll watch the replay.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 12:20:14
May 06 2013 12:19 GMT
#12
I would probably watch replays over a VOD, but then again I basically never watch VODs and will just check results if I'm interested in the tournament and missed live games.
Skoven
Profile Joined May 2012
Denmark13 Posts
May 06 2013 13:00 GMT
#13
As someone who don't really play Starcraft, just watches, it wouldn't personally affect me whenever they are released or not. That said, I think replays should as a minimum be released after the tournament is over, so that casters, pros and the general player base have the opportunity to closely study how the games are being played.

The only downside to doing this would be for players who device complex strategies that blow minds, or rely somewhat on the element of surprise. Even in that scenario, it is better for the health of the game, as everyone can learn about the game. It forces players to evolve, and make preparation for a series potentially more rewarding. The fact that we can now resume from replays offers unique training exercises for pros and players alike, and everyone wins in that case.

Hell, I win too, because Artosis and other analytical casters can effectively analyze play styles for races or individual players, and therefore give better reasoning for how these guys are going to play their games, or even better, lose it when the player does something completely unexpected.
Yorke
Profile Joined November 2010
England881 Posts
May 06 2013 13:56 GMT
#14
300 people saying they're not interested in tournament replays? What the fuck?
@YorkeSC - RIP MIT Police Officer Sean Collier, BW fan
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
May 06 2013 14:51 GMT
#15
Other: INnoVation replays make good wanking material
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
May 06 2013 14:52 GMT
#16
On May 06 2013 14:38 Waxangel wrote:
If I can't catch something live, and replays are up in a timely manner, I can't see a situation where I'd watch the VOD over the rep.

Really? Replays are cool and all but if it's Tastosis casting I'd much rather watch the VOD myself.
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
Blargh
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2103 Posts
May 06 2013 15:02 GMT
#17
I do wonder, do pros use the start from replay to perfect builds? It seems like that would make finding holes in builds infinitely easier...

But yeah, I would never watch it over a stream simply because I'm lazy and don't feel like observing myself. The Koreans do a good enough job. If I did watch a VOD, it'd likely contain Innovation in which I'd just 1st person it. Replays are okay to watch if I can't make the live stream.
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
May 06 2013 15:11 GMT
#18
On May 06 2013 22:56 Yorke wrote:
300 people saying they're not interested in tournament replays? What the fuck?


I don't even have the game yo
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Wodger
Profile Joined October 2008
Scotland380 Posts
May 06 2013 16:08 GMT
#19
I'd use them for complete results because apparently it's impossible for major tournaments to track their own results.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 06 2013 16:18 GMT
#20
On May 06 2013 22:56 Yorke wrote:
300 people saying they're not interested in tournament replays? What the fuck?

I voted for learning purposes, because that is the only reason I would use them, if I were to. However I have never in the past 3 years DLed replays from a tournament for any purpose. Many people are the same, and therefore have no purpose.
Refer to my post.
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