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On May 08 2011 15:11 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 15:00 DropBear wrote:On May 08 2011 14:57 chaoser wrote:On May 08 2011 14:19 DropBear wrote:
Stuff about Orgolove
DropBear, what are you opinions on Amber, Irish, Beneather, and Cthsazsa? Let's focus on them and leave orgolove for another day. I'll give you that in detail later. I'm leaving in a minute and won't be back for about 8 hours. In short: if you read my posts you'll see massive posts on Beneather and Cthsazsa. Irish and Amber, not sure. What is wrong with what I have said about orgolove? Because we can deal with orgolove another day. So far we're looking at four people, all of whom people think are scummy and have decent analysis on. Let's not offer too many lynch targets let mafia just ride on random ones and end up with nothing. I'd prefer there were only two lynch targets since then mafia HAS to take a stance one way or another but I'll be fine with 3-4 right now. I saw your massive posts on Beneather and you basically looked at three of his posts and says that he's contributed nothing. Ok, thats fine, but mafia don't do that. Mafia don't not contribute. Mafia try to LOOK like they're contributing but they really aren't. This applys to orgolove as well. He's not TRYING to look like he's contributing, he's just straight up not. Mafia aren't inactive like beneather or Kenpachi is and they're not posting their ass off like redtooth is. They're in that middle region where they look like they're contributing with long posts but ultimately it's all fluff. Mafia aren't INACTIVE, they are LURKING. They know what's going on and they'll jump in from time to time to post something with little substance and be wishy washy on their logic for voting.
Alright, lets keep our lynch targets to two or three.
You say mafia aren't inactive like Beneather, so lets remove Beneather.
By your same logic, Irish_Punk13 cannot be mafia.
Lets look at Cthsazsa, Amber[Light] and Orgolove.
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On May 08 2011 15:19 DropBear wrote:
Alright, lets keep our lynch targets to two or three.
You say mafia aren't inactive like Beneather, so lets remove Beneather.
By your same logic, Irish_Punk13 cannot be mafia.
Lets look at Cthsazsa, Amber[Light] and Orgolove.
Nah Irish is different in that he's under questioning and he's not posting to respond. He says that he's not logging in cause he forgot his password except you can retrieve and change your password. He also has access to the TL Mafia IRC which I've seen him frequent before a lot so he could have asked one of us to ask a mod for him. He's still on my scum list. Either way he'll be modkilled if he doesn't vote and if he does vote/respond to the thread you can be sure he'll be under intense pressure.
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On May 08 2011 15:24 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 15:19 DropBear wrote:
Alright, lets keep our lynch targets to two or three.
You say mafia aren't inactive like Beneather, so lets remove Beneather.
By your same logic, Irish_Punk13 cannot be mafia.
Lets look at Cthsazsa, Amber[Light] and Orgolove.
Nah Irish is different in that he's under questioning and he's not posting to respond. He says that he's not logging in cause he forgot his password except you can retrieve and change your password. He also has access to the TL Mafia IRC which I've seen him frequent before a lot so he could have asked one of us to ask a mod for him. He's still on my scum list. Either way he'll be modkilled if he doesn't vote and if he does vote/respond to the thread you can be sure he'll be under intense pressure.
If you think Irish is mafia, I have a quote from orgolove regarding that as well, one of his first posts to be exact. A defence:
On May 04 2011 14:46 orgolove wrote:
Is Irish a new player? Could make sense if he's new - he wouldn't want his first game end so quickly.
What do you think about what I've said about orgolove? Other than "lets delay it for another time?"
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Plus if you think he's going to be modkilled, why bother with Irish at all? Why not leave it until he comes back? Orgolove is here now. Orgolove has done these things recently.
If Irish comes back, lets look at him then.
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On May 08 2011 15:30 DropBear wrote:
Plus if you think he's going to be modkilled, why bother with Irish at all? Why not leave it until he comes back? Orgolove is here now. Orgolove has done these things recently.
If Irish comes back, lets look at him then.
See with orgolove, he's bandwagoning, but he's bandwagoning without even trying to hide it. For someone who should be considered an old player of mafia, I doubt he'd be playing the way he is if he's mafia. This is WIFOM at this point but mafia want to hide what they're actually doing so if they're going to bandwagon, they're going to make some long bullshit reason for why they agree with a vote and then vote to make people think, wow, this guy is REALLY contributing even though they're not. I'd say he's another potential DT check at most, though he looks like a bored townie to me at this point.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 08 2011 16:18 Cthsazsa wrote:
What does WIFOM mean?
WIFOM
That
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Holy crap there's a wiki for Mafia?
Thanks!
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I'm good if town wants Amber and Cthsazsa as two of the lynch candidates. Irish will probably be modkilled.
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On May 08 2011 17:16 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I'm good if town wants Amber and Cthsazsa as two of the lynch candidates. Irish will probably be modkilled.
Could you please say why I am a good lynch candidate?
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
... Somehow the lynch is inexhorably going towards people who are completely different from our initial focus. I think we're being led by the nose into reds' preferred targets, as we hit the mark at the beginning of day 2...
Redtooth
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On May 08 2011 17:16 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I'm good if town wants Amber and Cthsazsa as two of the lynch candidates. Irish will probably be modkilled.
btw. Normal townies wouldn't be this certain about lynch targets. Only reds truly know who would be good for them to be lynched. The tone of this post almost 100% confirms to me that Airblade is another red.
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Alright, before you read this analysis, I would like you to go to the search function and check all the posts Amber[Light] has made so far. You will notice a common theme. He never takes a stance on anything! When asked for his opinion he only lists the possible scenarios, he never says what he actually thinks about anyone.
Ok, so now that's done I'd like you to focus on these posts:
First one is chaoser's:
On May 07 2011 02:38 chaoser wrote:Amber[Light] has been playing lurker-ish I'll come back to the Irish issue once he's posted and responded to our questions to him. Anyway onto Amber. Amber is a vet player, and he generally posts a lot. Not just posts a lot, he also usually very active in calling people out and making FoS's on people he thinks is scummy. Except this game he hasn't. Most of his posts have been either asking or answer questions; in fact, out of his 5 total (game relevant) posts in this thread, he's pretty much only asked and answered questions in 3 of them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#426http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#427http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#439In the two posts where he actually tries to take a stance on someone (In this case Kurumi), he pretty much says the reason he's voting for kurumi is because he wants information. He never outright says that he's suspicous of kurumi, just that: Show nested quote +Chaoser has really been digging deep into Kurumi and hasn't been letting up against other players. I almost want to see Kurumi flip to see how much we can trust his analysis. and before, he questions where the Kurumi flip will lead: Show nested quote +Back to you Airblade... My question is do you think creating a chaoser vs/with kurumi vision is going to get us somewhere? Clearly he doesn't really support the Kurumi lynch but when questioned on if he actually believes the vote though, he responds to redtooth with: Show nested quote +He's using a lot of diversion tactics and getting really defensive to the point where he was analyzing players that were either targeting him or easy pins for inactivity. It seems like it's more pseudo-analysis than actual content. You know, posting just to post. Which seems like a throw-away reason. For that, I ask that Amber start to post more. His excuse that he's at work and so he can't do much is nulled by the fact that he generally posts a lot anyway as can be seen in insane 1, and insane 2. He hasn't contributed much to the discussion even though he's clearly caught up to speed and has been reading the thread. This same sentiment is also applied to GGQ. He gives the advice to DropBear: Show nested quote +There was no need for a PbP analysis here, you just needed to tell Lyter to post more and explain his vote You need to better explain your reasoning for voting Kurumi (Pretty much that he was acting like serejai aka trolling and so he's probably scum) and why you're not posting as much
So, for the first time, chaoser says Amber[Light] is behaving suspiciously and would like him to explain a couple things.
Now look at Amber's extreme overreaction:
On May 07 2011 07:48 Amber[LighT] wrote:If you want to read about me then read the below quote. If not hit scroll down to the next time you see the dotted lines for how I ended up voting for Kurumi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 02:38 chaoser wrote:Who died and made you the king... Some of those points leave no wiggle room. "No more than 4 quotes"? "All new arguments can't be linked to old arguments"? Mistakes on one part of the assessment of a player doesn't mean the rest of it isn't true. Let's instead view these as "Guidelines" and not "Hard Rule" a la Pirates of the Caribbean. To restrict people so much is damaging, especially considering the subjective nature of arguments and getting people to agree with them. That being said, can you give your thoughts on who you think is scum? You haven't been really doing that at all. Town's been doing fine so far. It's not like making a mistake day 1 mean town is fucked. We have a good atmosphere and people are taking stances and making arguments. That's better than almost all the town's I've been in where day 1 was spent discussing whether we should lynch inactives or not and then lynching an inactive player. This is definitely NOT the worst game you've ever played in. Hyperbolic statements don't help. I ain't going to write "I, chaoser, blah blah blah". I will however, proposition this: Amber[Light] has been playing lurker-ish I'll come back to the Irish issue once he's posted and responded to our questions to him. Anyway onto Amber. Amber is a vet player, and he generally posts a lot. Not just posts a lot, he also usually very active in calling people out and making FoS's on people he thinks is scummy. Except this game he hasn't. Most of his posts have been either asking or answer questions; in fact, out of his 5 total (game relevant) posts in this thread, he's pretty much only asked and answered questions in 3 of them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#426http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#427http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#439In the two posts where he actually tries to take a stance on someone (In this case Kurumi), he pretty much says the reason he's voting for kurumi is because he wants information. He never outright says that he's suspicous of kurumi, just that: Chaoser has really been digging deep into Kurumi and hasn't been letting up against other players. I almost want to see Kurumi flip to see how much we can trust his analysis. and before, he questions where the Kurumi flip will lead: Back to you Airblade... My question is do you think creating a chaoser vs/with kurumi vision is going to get us somewhere? Clearly he doesn't really support the Kurumi lynch but when questioned on if he actually believes the vote though, he responds to redtooth with: He's using a lot of diversion tactics and getting really defensive to the point where he was analyzing players that were either targeting him or easy pins for inactivity. It seems like it's more pseudo-analysis than actual content. You know, posting just to post. Which seems like a throw-away reason. For that, I ask that Amber start to post more. His excuse that he's at work and so he can't do much is nulled by the fact that he generally posts a lot anyway as can be seen in insane 1, and insane 2. He hasn't contributed much to the discussion even though he's clearly caught up to speed and has been reading the thread. This same sentiment is also applied to GGQ. He gives the advice to DropBear: There was no need for a PbP analysis here, you just needed to tell Lyter to post more and explain his vote You need to better explain your reasoning for voting Kurumi (Pretty much that he was acting like serejai aka trolling and so he's probably scum) and why you're not posting as much 1){For the record I lurked in Insane 2, and I resent signing up for that game altogether because of the absolute bullshit that went on the entire game. I never really play the same style in these games anyway. Would you rather me Bill Murray this thread up with bullshit? I can definitely find some spare time to do that. Since you wanted to bring up Insane 1 I would definitely like to chat about that game. Though I can't really tell if I was active or lurking [I think at this point I was much more active in games] throughout Insane 1, I remember my strategy for that game. I wanted to be killed. I was given a really cool role that required me to die, the Zombie role. It took me 5 days to die before I could activate my ability, and to my surprise I managed to get a mafia hook line and sinker. See Insane 1 Day 5 post below: [spoiler] Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 08:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Day 5![[image loading]](http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1953/1268040328107.gif) Last night would be a night of mixed feelings. Amber[LighT] was making his way towards the late night grocery store when a crazed gunman lept up from behind him and shot him dead in the back. Amber[LighT] died a swift death. Infinitestory was in distress. He had a feeling mafia would be coming, so he called in the aid of Veldril. Veldril soon discovered a case of Murrayitis in infinitestory's body, which resulted in him immediately dropping all other activities and started to heal infinitestory. Suddenly, a man opened the door. "I already took care of your other buddy", he smiled. Neither Infinitestory or Veldril was quick enough to respond to the hail of bullets. Kitaman27 was watching on the rooftops of a suspect. He saw the suspect walking out, then doing something he had never seen anyone do before. He looked right at him. Two seconds later, a bullet came kitaman27's way, and he would never watch again. Ace was returning home after a successful night of infecting people when he saw a man he had seen before. "You took out our busdriver." "Yes, I did." Ace quickly went for his gun, but couldn't find it. The man had already grabbed his gun, and pointed it at Ace. "May you never spread this foul plague again.", were the last words as the man faded into obscurity. Amber[LighT] was pissed, real pissed. He never was a fan of dying and decided he didn't want to start now, so he crawled out of his grave and went for brainsthe person he thought had killed him. He entered RebirthOfLegend's house and celebrated his victory before once more returning to eternal darkness. Amber[LighT] the Zombie is now dead. You are the Zombie! Though you are just a normal townie, death pisses you off in unusual ways. Every day, you may PM me the name of one player. Should you die that day or night, you will crawl out of your grave and hit that player. You may choose not to PM me a name in which case the last person you PMed will still be hit should you die. You may also leave a death message of no more than 100 characters. infinitestory the ADD Detective is now dead. You are the ADD Detective! Once per night, oh wait is that a squirrel? You randomly walk into houses to ask people questions about their alignment. You don't get to choose who since you act on impulse, which makes one question your job choice to begin with. Veldril the Plague Doctor is now dead. You are the Plague Doctor. During the night you can protect someone. If you protect someone they are cured of Murrayitis (if they have it), and a possible hit is prevented. However, if mafia hits the person you are protecting and they have Murrayitis, you both are killed because you are too busy to defend yourself. On the first night, you won't be able to protect anyone as you're just finishing the cure to Murrayitis. Note that if you use night actions when you are infected, the people you come into contact with will get Murrayitis too. Later added: If you protect someone and they have murrayitis and also get hit, both you and the person you protect die.kitaman27 the Watcher (-_-) is now dead. You are the watcher! Every day, you may PM me the naem of one player. You will be informed if that player leaves his house and what kind of action he performed. RebirthOfLegend the Mafia Roleblocker is now dead. You are the Mafia Roleblocker! Once per night, you may decide to roleblock one of the townies. Ace the Mafia Lab Rat is now dead. You are the Lab Rat! You can infect a person with Murrayitis once per night. Any day or night actions by infected players will cause the players they target to be infected as well (excluding lynch votes). If no one has Murrayitis at any point after night 2, you die. Hello, this is the news today with Jasmine Insane, replacing Wacko Zacko due to a bad case of murrayitis. A man was seen preventing someone from entering a house. According to our sources, this man was later shot. More plague bearers have died today, and to the best of our knowledge, only three remain. Should the deadly plague ever reach a majority, insanity save us all. And now for Radio Loony with your host Glasse! The story of the day being his supposed third party. Unfortunately, the radio has gone quiet as of late due to his identity being revealed. It is now Day 5! You have 48 hours to vote. Remember that a double lynch is active, so you have to vote twice. Should everyone have voted earlier, I will close the votes earlier. Was I lucky? Maybe. Oh wait no I wasn't. Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 01:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Awards!
Sniper award for suspecting most mafia members
This award goes to Amber[LighT]. The zombie that first targetted RebirthOfLegend on night 3. On night 5, he first targetted Ace, then switched to L, and finally settled on RebirthOfLegend again. Should he have had 3KP on night 5, 3 mafia would’ve been dead. Sick scumhunting skills.
. Okay okay so now that I've managed to get your attention I'm sure everyones next question is "well that's great and all but you've skipped the more important Insane mafia 2 where you lurked and were mafia. How does that make you any less scummy since you're apparently doing similar tactics?" First off read that thread. I took lurking to a new level in that game. You want to talk about sliding through the cracks for DAYS without being killed by mods, let alone the town, I'll say that was not one of my best games. But Chaoser, master detective, only investigated a couple of games. I was mafia once before in a smaller game, Mini Mafia 7. I think only Jackal and Chaoser were in that game with me, but if you want to read that thread I was pretty active and worked really hard to get my team a win in just a couple of days. They both should know that too. We had a flawless victory. }-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why did I end up voting for Kurumi?The majority was hung up over this Irish vs. Kurumi thing. We had a number of other "suspects" that were accumulating small numbers of votes. This poses a VERY dangerous situation where we have to deal with the votes thinned out between large numbers of suspects. That means we enter scenarios where 1-2 votes can actually make a difference. When it came down to it Kurumi was leading in votes and creating a bandwagon at the last minute almost always end up in a disappointing lynch, so lets go with the person the town believes is not going to be beneficial to us later for analysis. How often do we manage to lynch a mafia on the first day? Chaoser, you've been in almost as many games as me [since the old days in like 08/09 and how often have you seen that happen? Don't get hung up on the idea that "oh my god these people voted for Kurumi and he flipped green FoS ON ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!1111one" The town has been given so much information. We know what players stuck to their guns, what players switched, as well as what players felt threatened by others during the day. Redtooth, since the beginning of the game I've really taken a lot of your analysis seriously and I've had similar views throughout the whole game up to this point. I however don't think imposing rules is going to help us. The town is going to crumble. You want to add red tape to the game to force analysis? The quality is going to decrease significantly. I've never seen this done in a game, and I really don't understand why you're coming to the conclusion that we're playing so miserably. 2){I think we're playing pretty good. We had some good Day 1 discussion and we had a lot of players throwing out some great analysis. We didn't sit around all day talking about roles. This is one of the more impressive towns in any game of TL mafia I've played, especially with so many newbies. }3){I have to agree with another post I found a bit amusing... [if you can't tell I'm still on page 42 so I'm catching up]. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 23:18 sandroba wrote:
The list argument is pretty dumb. If I were mafia I would NEVER want to see kurumi dead. He was basically doing mafia's job for them. He was spaming the thread, creating a lot of confusion and posting a lot of nonsense. There is no way in hell you could know for sure kurumi was town unless you were mafia. My suspicions are on the people who came to his defensess for no reason, because he was "obvtown". Seriously, you guys must be on a whole other level, because calling kurumi obvtown is like calling a rape a beautiful act between two people in love. Give me a break. I mean I think sandroba is pretty spot on with this post. If I were mafia I would have done whatever I could have to keep him around. His play was textbook scummy. Him and Irish are mimicking each other and they have a scent of scum on them. Does this make either of them mafia? No. Does this mean that we shouldn't pursue them? No. For Day 1 the most important thing was to discover who would want to keep him around and what benefits the town and mafia would have by keeping him alive. If he was left alive he would have been a target for days. This happens all the time. Ask L about being pinned down. Ace did it to him in like every game for a year straight and L would always be pro-town in the end. Irish or Chaoser should be checked tonight if the detective didn't already get this memo. }4){Once day hits I'm going to post a bit more on the Kurumi aftermath. I just want everyone to be aware that we should not be in panic mode at this point. }5){Mafia wants us to be fighting, trust me it's so easy when mafia can just sit back and relax while the town self-destructs. That lynch is going to compound over the next few days. }Once again I apologize for the novel post. I'm still 3-4 pages behind so I will be posting more if I find some good posts. I'm also openly against the Redtooth plan, if that's still being discussed.
I'm going to dissect it using the numbers I put on the quote and limit them using {}
1) Here he goes on and on about how he played other games and how he did great. This is completely non-relevant to this current game. Now let us look at this from different perspectives. As a townie, Amber's reaction doesn't make much sense. To quote Ver on this because I feel he's better with words than I am: A townie might want to defend himself if someone accuses him, but only a mafia feels inherently guilty and has a need, perhaps even a desire to defend himself before he's even a blip on anyone's radar
It doesn't make sense as a blue, because you would never want to paint a target on your back saying you are such a great player/scumhunter. It doesn't make any sense as a vet because of his refusal to point fingers at anyone, as seen in all his other posts. As mafia it does make sense, because he has a need and a desire to instantly clear himself of any suspicion and make it look like he's contributing without actually doing so.
2) So he thinks this is one of the best towns he's played on, because "we had a lot of players throwing some great analysis". What basically happened day one is that everybody accused everybody (myself included), and town kept pointing fingers at each other while mafia could just sit back and relax. He know this is a great enviroment for mafia and I'll prove it further down.
3) So here he basically says he agree's with me and we should be suspicious of people who defended kurumi, but he refuses to find them suspicious. I asked later he's opinion on redtooth (who defended kurumi) and he said "I trust his opinion and I feel like he's a better leader for the town than chaoser". He simply refuses to be suspicious of anyone, even if he has stated before there's reason to be suspicious.
4) "Once the day hits..." You may think this is a minor point, but it's not. This is the mentality he's in when writing this post. He knows for sure he won't die, and he's already making plans on what he'll post once day hits. This is purely mafia mentality.
5) He proves point number 2. He spell's it right out for us, yet he thinks town is doing great. Surely it must be doing great from a Mafia perspective.
So to sum it up: He NEVER takes a stance on anything. He is OVERLY defensive. He is EXTREMELY whish-washy in all his posts. He feels in SO MUCH pressure he claims chaoser is tunneling him, when in reality, it was the first time chaose brought it up. He is a good player and has no excuse for behaving this way.
Amber[Light] is Scum.
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On May 08 2011 15:17 chaos13 wrote:
I was talking to Irish on UG, and he said he forgot the password to his TL account. Chances are he will be modkilled. The reason behind being gone is irrelevant, since we can´t check up on it, and because Mafia lie. If Irish returns then he has a lot to answer for.
On May 08 2011 14:15 Mig wrote:
Beneather/irish should be completely ignored for the time being. There is a good chance both will be modkilled. So unless they post again in the thread, there is no reason to discuss or vote for them. It would be a good idea if people who did vote for these 2 changed their votes on to someone else. Placing a vote on someone likely to be modkilled is a good way to blend in without actually taking a stand on any issues. Also then we have to deal with a bunch of people switching around their votes last minute. If either of them actually post then we can discuss if they should be lynched.
If I were going to vote now I would vote for Cthsazsa. I am not 100% sold on him being scum but out of the leading candidates I think he looks the worst. Mainly for his first couple of posts where he was staying extremely neutral and then his reaction to jackals tunneling.
I am not completely sold on amber being mafia yet. The long post where he talked about his previous games I thought was pretty shady but I thought his reasons for voting for kurumi were fine. So I guess the main points against him are the long post and just his overall lack of content along with possibly aidnai fosing him. I will wait for him to post more before the end of the day before I make a judgment on him.
And so its clear GGQ is the only one claiming to have been role blocked last night right? Fine, I guess we can hold on Beneather and Irish until they return or get modkilled.
Is it correct that GGQ claim roleblock for last night? Does that tell us anything at all?
On May 08 2011 14:19 DropBear wrote:
Orgolove is bandwagoning whoever is most suspicious at the time. His votes redtooth despite misgivings. Why would you vote redtooth if you think he could be townie?
Why did he vote for Kurumi?
Orgolove is mafia. I noticed from earlier how orgolove was following along on voiting for big talkers, chaoser and redtooth, and the easy target of Kurumi. Right now he looks, at least to me, more scummy than either Amber or Cthasazha.
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If we are focusing on a few Scum, then I say we remove Irish and Beneather (at least until they return), and add Orgolove from the list.
I got scumtells from redtooth during day1, but more and more I´m leaning towards Chaoser and redtooth as obvTown. Because of that, and because a Mafia that talks eventually outs himself, I say we should drop trying to lynch him and focus on the others.
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Good wall of text there, Sandroba.
Yes, I agree that Amber is looking weird with his post about "Once the day hits" and not taking stances, never accusing anyone, but that isn´t necessarily a redtell, even for veterans. We should still keep him on the scumlist and consider lynching.
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What do people think about considering these for lynching? Please add or remove as you think best:
Amber[Light]
Cthsazsa
Orgolove
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I had this post ready last night but I was waiting on Sandroba's undeniable post before putting it out here in case he was as convincing as he was making it sound to be. Unfortunately, it failed to deliver like all his posts in this day cycle. Also, I am still waiting for him to answer the logical disconnect of after being against redtooth almost the entire game, having a sudden change of heart based on a post by Amber (against whom he is making a 'strong' case)
His change of heart statement and my issue with it
+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 08:25 Eternalmisfit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:01 sandroba wrote:
No, I changed my mind about redtooth. His analysis on cthsazsa made me change my mind about him, and he's too fearless and outspoken of his opinions, so it's not very likely he is scum. His plan was misguided, and sometimes I misinterpret poor logic with scum behaviour. My main suspicion about redtooth was the fact that he was willing to lynch killerSOS (who hinted blue) day1 and he was stubborn about chaoser (which I have a town read on) being scum and providing weak reasoning.
If you noticed, I asked for Amber[Light]'s opinion on Redtooth, and that also contributed to changing my mind.
On the other hand, the analysis I will provide on Amber[Light] has nothing to do with poor logic. It will prove that the actions he has taken so far only make sense with a scum mentality.
You shouldn't attack my analysis before I even post it, that makes me wary of you. Amber said redtooth was possibly town. If Amber is scum (which you are now claiming), and redtooth is town, why would he defend redtooth? On top of that, if you think Amber is scum and he is defending redtooth, won't that make you even more suspicious of redtooth? In fact, the fact that Amber thinks redtooth might be town, should make you press even more for a lynch between red and him. Again, there seems a clear disconnect in your logic.
His accusations against redtooth throughout the thread
+ Show Spoiler +Redtooth
Holy shit, my whole team is exposing themselves like crazy. Time to chainsaw and discredit chaoser! I fail to see how this players you are calling obvtown are obvtown. Your logic is pretty fail: kurumi and irish_punk are so blatantly scum that they MUST NOT be scum so they MUST be town. If you keep following this logic doesn't this make them obvscum all over again? Then he picks Killer_SOS to focus on for day1 lynch. That's pretty dumb if you are town. That's all I have to say for now. @GGQ I would fully suport redtooth lynch. And yes, I'm saying Irish and Redtooth are scum. Alright I have a theory and I strongly believe RedTooth is mafia:
There were some people defending kurumi, but none of them came out so strong, to the point of calling him obvtown, except for red. In the same post he sugests we should change to killerSOS, who had hinted blue at that point. I feel if he was such a great analitical mind that could see that obviously kurumi wasn't scum, he would have noticed that killer could be blue, and advocating his lynch on day 1 was a dumb move, unless you are mafia.
Then the post claiming not to know scum could pm amongst themselves. Again, if you are so experienced to the point of knowing kurumi was obvtown at that point, wouldn't you know that scum can exchange pm in this type of setup? It seems to me like a blatant atempt to look inocent.
Then he goes ahead and makes that post that says town is sucking and says only himself, jackal and iadnai have defended kurumi. So tonight the kills were jackal and aidnai, none of which were defending kururmi with such certainty as himself. Those kills pretty much draw suspicion away from him. It looks too much like a plan. I don't see any reason for mafia having to snipe jackal and aidnai, based on their posting. That's the only purpose I can think of for them.
He then posts his plan about organizing town. So I play along trying to find his true intentions behind it. If he was really trying to reduce spam and improve thread quality, he would be more flexible and make those a guideline, not a rule. I pressed him to change it and provided good reasoning and yet he refused to change his mind.
As I've stated most likely only a few will follow those guidelines as they are presented, and that would slip town even more, and cause good analysis to be disregarded and random fos to be thrown around for a group of people. He then, states he's tired from arguing with chaoser (huh?) and goes away.
I believe his plan was to split town all along.
Also, his exchange with Jackal just before the end of the night. It seems like Jackal was onto him.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 23:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 23:18 sandroba wrote:
The list argument is pretty dumb. If I were mafia I would NEVER want to see kurumi dead. He was basically doing mafia's job for them. He was spaming the thread, creating a lot of confusion and posting a lot of nonsense. There is no way in hell you could know for sure kurumi was town unless you were mafia. My suspicions are on the people who came to his defensess for no reason, because he was "obvtown". Seriously, you guys must be on a whole other level, because calling kurumi obvtown is like calling a rape a beautiful act between two people in love. Give me a break. But as town you wanted him dead? But if you were scum you would never want him dead? But as town you did? But as scum you wouldn't? So since you voted for him you're obviously town right? Because obvscum would want him alive? But you have no problems with voting for obvtown? It's not rape. It's surprise sex. Enjoy it scummy.
It is clearly a defensive post trying drive attention away from himself. Sandroba, are you claiming that everyone who voted for Kurumi was town coz according to your argument no scum will vote for him. If yes, doesn't that invalidate your suspicion against Amber. If not, Why the pre-emptive defense on your name being included in a list? This seems quite scummy to me.
People tunneled Irish the whole of Day1 for being far less defensive but are completely ignoring this blatant over-reaction from someone who is being FoS along with a group of people.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 02:18 sandroba wrote:Ok, I've changed my mind. I think we should save the redtooth discussion for another day and focus on the more obvious ones, like cthsazsa, irish and amber. Seriously Amber[Light], how hard is it to give an opinion on something instead of listing all the possible scenarios? Your posts are extremelly filled with fluff and very defensive. Your huge ass response for chaoser FoS was not needed at all. All I can read from your post is I'm a great scum hunter, you shouldn't kill me now because I'll have all scum on day 3. Also in this post:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 07:48 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Once day hits I'm going to post a bit more on the Kurumi aftermath. I just want everyone to be aware that we should not be in panic mode at this point. Mafia wants us to be fighting, trust me it's so easy when mafia can just sit back and relax while the town self-destructs. That lynch is going to compound over the next few days.
You seem pretty sure you are going to survive the night, don't you? FoS: Amber[Light]
Yeah, cthsazsa is a more obvious target. In fact, he is so much more obvious that you have never mentioned him in any of your posts till but yet choose discard redtooth from your suspicion list in his favor for no reason what-so-ever.
[Whenever you post you point out the possible scenarios instead of actually saying something relevant or useful. You refuse to take a stance on anythhing. You claimed chaoser was tunneling you when he first brought up his fos on you. You are over defensive. You are scum.
After the great-over defensive reaction, you gave to a list including your name, you argue that someone is scum because he is over-defensive. Again, contradictory logic.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 08:44 sandroba wrote:
Amber never really defended anyone. He has been extremelly whish-washy. You can FoS me all you want but my analysis will be undeniable. That I promise.
Again, someone who has been wishy-washy throughout the day is FoSing someone for being wishy-washy. I await your undeniable analysis and it better be convincing. Till then, I am going to keep my vote on you.
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@Ethernalmisfit I won't bother arguing with you because you are clearly using Chainsaw defense. This is going to be my only post on the matter. If you trully beleive I'm scum go ahead and vote for me. I already stated my reasons for my change of heart regarding redtooh. Recently DropBear has had the same change of heart. Are you saying that we are all scum? Are you saying Redtooth is scum? Are you saying Amber is not scum? What are you saying?
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On May 08 2011 22:30 sandroba wrote:
@Ethernalmisfit I won't bother arguing with you because you are clearly using Chainsaw defense. This is going to be my only post on the matter. If you trully beleive I'm scum go ahead and vote for me. I already stated my reasons for my change of heart regarding redtooh. Recently DropBear has had the same change of heart. Are you saying that we are all scum? Are you saying Redtooth is scum? Are you saying Amber is not scum? What are you saying?
I am not saying redtooth is scum or everyone else is scum. I am not even saying that Amber is not scum (just that I am getting a null-tell from him). I am saying that YOU are scum. The change of heart is not the reason I think you the scum. The scummy reason (and incoherent logic) behind it seems like a mafia slip-up. Also, combine that with your over-defensive behavior and subsequent FoS on you by Jackal. It seems so convenient that Jackal got hit by mafia after that and this post slipped under the radar.
+ Show Spoiler +
The list argument is pretty dumb. If I were mafia I would NEVER want to see kurumi dead. He was basically doing mafia's job for them. He was spaming the thread, creating a lot of confusion and posting a lot of nonsense. There is no way in hell you could know for sure kurumi was town unless you were mafia. My suspicions are on the people who came to his defensess for no reason, because he was "obvtown". Seriously, you guys must be on a whole other level, because calling kurumi obvtown is like calling a rape a beautiful act between two people in love. Give me a break.
This post by itself has the biggest scum tell on you. I mean no one even did a FoS on you before this and you and go ahead and post this pre-emptive defense. Seems like someone panicked and slipped up.
Btw, I like your style. Trying to to make a me vs town scenario by posting 'Are you saying that we are all scum?'
I never claimed anyone else was scum apart from you but you felt the necessity to relate yourself with the rest of the town so that it seems I am accusing others as well. More scummy posting.
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Oh gawd... This game is ridiculous.
On May 08 2011 04:07 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Redtooth, if you don't like my analysis please tell me why and what I can do to improve. I am giving it my best shot and if you want to help town you will help point out strengths/weakness in such analysis. Stop quotewalling, nobody reads it. At least format it so that there aren't 20 quotes in 15 different spoilers. Also, always consider the following: "What are the reasons that I would be wrong?" Be your own devil's advocate, try to doubt yourself, and if it still seems like a good idea then go ahead.
On May 08 2011 07:55 kitaman27 wrote:
As for Amber, he better post something productive if he hopes to survive the day. A vet like him isn't going to get away with disappearing like irish did. The "Cthsazsa is scum because jackal is dead" argument seems pretty WIFOM. On the other hand, he certainly has had his fair share of empty posts. If we're going to save jaminz for another day, I'll probably be on one of these two. Of course it's WIFOM. I stated that it was WIFOM. But it's a WIFOM argument made on the wrong person. The better, easier, and crazier WIFOM would be Me vs Chaoser. So why the hell was Jackal the target of a WIFOM lynch? Btw if Cthsazsa flips red, Chaoser is red too. Think about it and the connection should be pretty obvious. That's as strong an information-lynch as it can get. More on this later.
On May 08 2011 18:28 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 17:16 AirbladeOrange wrote:
I'm good if town wants Amber and Cthsazsa as two of the lynch candidates. Irish will probably be modkilled. btw. Normal townies wouldn't be this certain about lynch targets. Only reds truly know who would be good for them to be lynched. The tone of this post almost 100% confirms to me that Airblade is another red. By your logic half the town would be scum since everybody seems 100% confident that somebody else is scum/"goodlynch". Btw you're not scum, you're simply noobtown. You may disagree with me but I can accept that based on your experience.
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On May 08 2011 08:44 chaoser wrote:
Ok, we need to focus on a few people and not just point fingers at everyone cause then mafia can jsut blend in. At this point either write up an actual argument against someone if you're going to FoS them. What are you opinions on Amber, cthsazsa, and irish? On May 08 2011 13:12 chaoser wrote:
Ok guys, so I asked Gmarshal to do a vote count for us and upon seeing it, I'm seeing the same thing that happened on day one, which is a HUGE spreading of votes over six people. I suggest we consolidate tomorrow and narrow it down to three. Redtooth is a HORRIBLE choice for a lynch. At least he's posting a lot and at least he's active (not counting tonight). I suggest a Cthsazsa, Beneather, Amber focus with Irish as an option if he posts and votes. My vote is going to stay on Amber. So you finally do agree that this thread is crap. Whatever happened to your "NOTHING IS WRONG WITH THREAD YOU COCKY COCK" statement. Imagine if everybody followed my initiative. Life would be so much easier.
On May 08 2011 14:19 DropBear wrote:
Ver also suggested I keep to only one target instead of attacking 7 at once, which on second thoughts makes sense. Isn't that what I've been saying this whole time? Haters gonna hate but haters in mafia thread should first consider whether, ultimately, it is a good idea or not. You're still town and this reconsideration made me respect you a lot more. Thanks.
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EPT
