|
Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
Australia1058 Posts
On March 28 2011 12:47 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 11:26 .Sic. wrote: I swear to god that these are fixed matches... idra, nestea, fruitdealer, mvp, genius, jinro getting knocked out... Only under the assumption that all these players are consistently good. FruitDealer, Genius, NesTea and MVP for example all got knocked out in group stage last GSL and MVP even got knocked down to Code A. Personally I think MKP would have won over MVP if he(thats MarineKing) didn´t for some reason stop using his trademark playstyle and try to win the final by playing "standard". Just my opinion and offtopic too. Come to think of it, it is a bit on topic: If Idras style wouldn´t be macroing up to 200/200 while surviving, then kill him with better economy, he could be more successful. If you want to have the unstoppable 200/200 army, just play protoss. The fact that colossi stack with air and ground on the same spot makes it the most compact army. Colossi only have unit collision with other colossi, like they´re in some kind of freak space between ground and air. My point is, recently people like julyzerg have shown that zerg can wear down t and p just by continuosly attacking, making the 300 food push obsolete. If you can do the same thing better at 80-100 food, why wait for maxed armies? While I´m ranting, even if there is a most optimal buildorder/playstyle for a race depending or not depending on maps, every buildorder will have inherent weaknesses that can be figured out. If there was a playstyle/buildorder without any weakness, it would make sc2 a bad game. Compared to rock paper scissors, if there is one option that´s better than the others, you can have mind games. Rock is good, so I want to play it. But he expects me to play rock, so he will choose paper. I counter that with playing the very weak option scissors that beats paper. If, say, you could play rock so well it would beat paper, the game would become very old very fast. If you would need to cut your hand off to play scissors, paper would become the only option, even though rock is actually better. And Idra basically plays paper every game, since scissors is stupid. Logically everyone should play rock, so paper beats that. It makes me cringe because I really think Idra has world class mechanics, refined buildorders and superior micro. Its just this religious believe that one and only one good buildorder should be able to beat everything that let´s bad players beat him with badly executed buildorders that are chosen because they counter his buildorder in some or the other. /rant
I think he did something like that in game 2. the 'july' style except he had full drone saturation when he did it. 73 ish drones. Where as when july was doing his aggression he was on something like 40 ish. So in a way what idra did wasn't an all in just heavy aggression which paid off hugely.
Unfortunately game 3 we didnt get to see if he would do it again which is a real shame.
|
Dont feel sad if you do idra. You outplayed him totally and he just 6gated you. your still my hero!
|
Although you were outplayed idra you are still a very decent player and shouldn't be upset.
|
On March 28 2011 10:04 xaneda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 10:01 dre2k wrote: xaneda, stop trying to be a wiseass. cruncher obviously faked the shark mode poke you do after 3 gate expanding to force the zerg to make units. Idra hadn't seen all the gates and saw a pretty high number of sentries and assumed it was this, but it turned out to be a gateway all-in. Idra indeed lost because of incorrect assumptions. Glad we could agree.
The fact that IdrA lost because he had to make a guess and either decision would have lost him the game points more towards the fact that the game balance atm is retarded more than "IdrA deserved to lose".
|
IdrA made an assumption because he could not scout, as opposed to did not scout.
IdrA sent many overlords to their deaths to scout, what more do you want? Should a zerg throw 100 minerals away every 30 seconds just to be sure a 6gate isn't coming? Oh wait, now you are supply blocked, and lose because you can't make units.
Cruncher denied his scouting, but this is not hard. Stalker are an extremel fast unit and overlords are extremely slow, he kept his gates in the middle of his base.
I just wish he had patch 1.3 during game 1, infestors would of owned up. If IdrA and the other zerg can't have 1.3 during their Ro32, then the rest of the tourney should not be able to play with it either.
|
he could not scout i agree with that, but he did scout, if you watch it again idra had lings in front of his base. i just think that he could have reacted better.
|
His zerglings saw a small army move out, which could of meant harass, expansion, or push.
He had roaches at home, and zerglings. Enough to fight that push. He did not know there was 5-6 gates though, and the warp-in reinforcement stalkers are what won cruncher the game. IdrA prepared for cruncher to expo or harass, he was not ready for a full out push. IF he prepared for that push, and cruncher put down a third nexus, he would of been in the same position as game 1, against a 3 base protoss able to make whatever he wants.
|
On March 28 2011 13:50 anonmice wrote: i agree with that, but he did scout, if you watch it again idra had lings in front of his base. i just think that he could have reacted better.
Yeah so I should just spazz out and make a billion useless units if I see protoss make anything but probes okay. A lot of tosses make zealo/sentry/stalker. People keep saying the high stalker count meant it was an all-in, not really? You're not going to catch a protoss making a bunch of zealots after expanding because zealots are terrible and stalkers make a pretty good deathball. It looks like IdrA reacted badly, but if cruncher wasn't going all-in you'd be saying IdrA reacted perfectly. The fact is it's a coinflip.
|
Its kinda humorous how accurate Chill's statement was about the SC2 community often bandwagoning behind certain players after they take one big win, AFter cruncher wins there is a cruncher fanclub, after Adelscott wins there is instantly a fanclub for him also, then people will just be soon to forget about these players if they dont win anymore.
I like IdrA because he is consistent, and once this game gets figured out more players who rely on a more solid style like him will be at the top.
|
He sent his first overlord in, saw a warpgate getting built. He sent his other overlord in, saw an expansion and a second warpgate. Plus a warpgate at the front. Then he saw Cruncher walk out with a sentry heavy army, it's only natural to assume it's a 3 gate expand build - not a 6 gate all in.
|
On March 28 2011 13:57 stalefish wrote: Its kinda humorous how accurate Chill's statement was about the SC2 community often bandwagoning behind certain players after they take one big win, AFter cruncher wins there is a cruncher fanclub, after Adelscott wins there is instantly a fanclub for him also, then people will just be soon to forget about these players if they dont win anymore.
I like IdrA because he is consistent, and once this game gets figured out more players who rely on a more solid style like him will be at the top. It's quite odd, honestly. The Cruncher fan club is like a rally of people who hate IdrA. Notice how literally every post and link is related to IdrA and not Cruncher's play. They're using Cruncher as a tool to express how they love to see IdrA get a "taste of his own medicine" (even though IdrA would never gloat about beating someone with an easy to execute timing attack).
It's also similar to the Adelscott fanclub that popped up after Mvp's loss. People see a guy win a couple games (even while playing poorly), but since it's against a huge player, BOOM - fan club. Like you said, these fan clubs will almost certainly dissipate and fade away once these players are eliminated from the TSL.
|
On March 28 2011 14:17 Swixi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 13:57 stalefish wrote: Its kinda humorous how accurate Chill's statement was about the SC2 community often bandwagoning behind certain players after they take one big win, AFter cruncher wins there is a cruncher fanclub, after Adelscott wins there is instantly a fanclub for him also, then people will just be soon to forget about these players if they dont win anymore.
I like IdrA because he is consistent, and once this game gets figured out more players who rely on a more solid style like him will be at the top. It's quite odd, honestly. The Cruncher fan club is like a rally of people who hate IdrA. Notice how literally every post and link is related to IdrA and not Cruncher's play. They're using Cruncher as a tool to express how they love to see IdrA get a "taste of his own medicine" (even though IdrA would never gloat about beating someone with an easy to execute timing attack). It's also similar to the Adelscott fanclub that popped up after Mvp's loss. People see a guy win a couple games (even while playing poorly), but since it's against a huge player, BOOM - fan club. Like you said, these fan clubs will almost certainly dissipate and fade away once these players are eliminated from the TSL.
Ha, that actually reminds me of his post interview at the World IEM tournament right after he beat White-ra 2-0 in the group stages. Even though they were huge wins for him, he was downplaying it so much. Paraphrased, he was like, "Oh yeah, he was going for this two base timing and I just saw it."
Truth be told, IdrA could never win another tournament and I would still be looking at his games over other zergs to better learn how to play.
|
^ Totally agree more with the post above, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a "Cruncher FanClub" - what a joke.
Been watching you a long time IdrA, can't wait to see what you have to show us over the next few years :-D
|
IMO Protoss is a (tiny, but still slightly) bit broken right now, and that coupled with the fact that IdrA and every last one of the players I wanted to see advance in the TSL (of whatever race) have been eliminated really sours my attitude toward the rest of the tourney
|
Not taking anything away from Cruncher, he is by far better than most NA/EU protoss.
|
I really cringe when i see ppl calling Idra 1dimensional or "boring solid macro style". He is easily the most reactive zerg out there with one of the best, if not the best scouting. Sometimes, however, this is not enough because as you could see, even constantly sacking overlords can net you very little to none information.
So there are times when u need to take an educated guess on what Protoss is doing, - is he going for a longer game or going allin right now/very soon? Idra made a wrong guess and made a round of drones and it costed him the game. But there is no way around it really, you cant just blindly make rounds of roaches everytime you are "not sure" that you are 100% safe, you will fall extremely behind in macro and will be rolled over. Zergs are very very unforgiving at times, not only u need to have great scouting you also need sometimes get abit lucky and get your guesses right
The mistake idra did is giving Crucher too much credit, i think he assumed that he was confident enough to play a macro game in a deciding match, but he should have known that he was probably on some kind of tilt after getting massively outplayed in a g2 and lean heavily on a idea that all-in is coming
|
On March 28 2011 15:21 ABOOMAN wrote: The mistake idra did is giving Crucher too much credit, i think he assumed that he was confident enough to play a macro game in a deciding match, but he should have known that he was probably on some kind of tilt after getting massively outplayed in a g2 and lean heavily on a idea that all-in is coming
You're delusional, Idra said cruncher would be a "walkover." Idra has become too bloated and isn't willing to learn from mistakes. His tilt is his biggest weakness, and the longer he goes without working on his emotional problems the more he'll lose his lead in skill.
And BTW I'm not a troll. I have loved Idra's style in the past, but the past couple of weeks have been lacking. He needs to accept that players can beat him without it being a huge personal insult. I have serious pride issues too, so I have some idea of what it feels like.
But I'm serious. His rage is making him a worse player (or at least preventing him from improving).
|
On March 28 2011 15:59 Shai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 15:21 ABOOMAN wrote: The mistake idra did is giving Crucher too much credit, i think he assumed that he was confident enough to play a macro game in a deciding match, but he should have known that he was probably on some kind of tilt after getting massively outplayed in a g2 and lean heavily on a idea that all-in is coming
You're delusional, Idra said cruncher would be a "walkover." Idra has become too bloated and isn't willing to learn from mistakes. His tilt is his biggest weakness, and the longer he goes without working on his emotional problems the more he'll lose his lead in skill. And BTW I'm not a troll. I have loved Idra's style in the past, but the past couple of weeks have been lacking. He needs to accept that players can beat him without it being a huge personal insult. I have serious pride issues too, so I have some idea of what it feels like. But I'm serious. His rage is making him a worse player (or at least preventing him from improving).
As far as I know flamebait like this isnt allowed in fanclubs. Loved his style in the past? Not willing to learn from mistakes? Bloated? All your comments are ignorant. You obviously just want to rile people up even though you try to disguise it. Your comment about bringing personality into the game is funny though... you actually follow day[9]'s word like its a religion "yeah he is tilting cuz day[9] said so"... maybe you should ask IdrA to go to a shaman to get rid of the curse day[9] mentioned. If you loose game one to some idiotic overpowered strategy you might tilt, if you crush the guy in the next round and he is using the same strat you won't suddenly tilt.. thats so illogical. IdrA reacted correctly in game 3, he sent several ovies to their deaths and he just had to take a guess.. if cruncher was going the same strat he needed to drone.. he guessed wrong, but played correctly. People need to learn the difference. Especially people like you who have watched some huskyvideos and decided they dislike IdrA.
|
From reddit o_o
|
On March 28 2011 16:34 TheCrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 15:59 Shai wrote:On March 28 2011 15:21 ABOOMAN wrote: The mistake idra did is giving Crucher too much credit, i think he assumed that he was confident enough to play a macro game in a deciding match, but he should have known that he was probably on some kind of tilt after getting massively outplayed in a g2 and lean heavily on a idea that all-in is coming
You're delusional, Idra said cruncher would be a "walkover." Idra has become too bloated and isn't willing to learn from mistakes. His tilt is his biggest weakness, and the longer he goes without working on his emotional problems the more he'll lose his lead in skill. And BTW I'm not a troll. I have loved Idra's style in the past, but the past couple of weeks have been lacking. He needs to accept that players can beat him without it being a huge personal insult. I have serious pride issues too, so I have some idea of what it feels like. But I'm serious. His rage is making him a worse player (or at least preventing him from improving). As far as I know flamebait like this isnt allowed in fanclubs. Loved his style in the past? Not willing to learn from mistakes? Bloated? All your comments are ignorant. You obviously just want to rile people up even though you try to disguise it. Your comment about bringing personality into the game is funny though... you actually follow day[9]'s word like its a religion "yeah he is tilting cuz day[9] said so"... maybe you should ask IdrA to go to a shaman to get rid of the curse day[9] mentioned. If you loose game one to some idiotic overpowered strategy you might tilt, if you crush the guy in the next round and he is using the same strat you won't suddenly tilt.. thats so illogical. IdrA reacted correctly in game 3, he sent several ovies to their deaths and he just had to take a guess.. if cruncher was going the same strat he needed to drone.. he guessed wrong, but played correctly. People need to learn the difference. Especially people like you who have watched some huskyvideos and decided they dislike IdrA.
I have been following SC probably not as long as some people, but since 2007. I was a fan of Idra when estro decided never to play him. I have been a fan of his throughout SC2. I watch his stream every time its on because I love watching him play. However, losing and then ragequiting and turning off the stream is not constructive.
I've never watched husky, apart from his casting in the TSL3. I'm not trying to cause an uproar of hate against me. I actually really truly want Idra to continue to be the top-tier player he is and has been. However, I will not blindly say "AWW OP LETS QQ HURRAY." For people to get better it requires calmly looking at the situation and moving on by getting better.
I hate watching Idra stream and then turning it off because someone canon-rushes him. Keep playing! People who like to watch him play don't think less of him because a canon-rush beat him once.
You assume I'm talking purely about his match today in the TSL, but I'm not. It has been a theme, like I said, for a couple of weeks. I really, really want him to continue to be the top tier of Zerg, and I will continue to cheer for him in the future.
|
|
|
|