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On March 28 2011 09:48 imbs wrote:
i know it wasnt, idiot. thats what cruncher disguised it as and what idra saw
No. Idra saw stalkers too with his lings. Rewatch the VOD. As someone who frequently identifies 6gate all ins and beats them this is pretty basic knowledge, you can have a rough idea of your opponent's strategy is based on his unit composition which is what idra had, and decided to risk making more drones when a mass warpgate all in had not been ruled out. This is why he lost. What is hard to understand about that?
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On March 28 2011 09:33 waxypants wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 08:07 Tynan wrote:On March 28 2011 07:59 vmendi wrote:On March 28 2011 07:30 Tynan wrote:
You HAVE to bluff with a certain randomized frequency or you'll get exploited, even if your normal play is phenomenal. Same thing in Starcraft.
This would be true if SC had randomness/hidden information in itself. The question is: Has it? If you scout and micro perfectly, then randomness is 0. But, as this is not so, it has a lot of randomness in my opinion. I have heard Idra saying a lot of times that worse players beat him because they play the random game (cheese, risky risky strats). I'd like to think that Idra understands that it's impossible to reach the 0 randomness point, that randomness is inherent to the game and that you have to deal with it. I wouldn't call the solution to bluff or even to not always do the same build, this is not poker. There's a better solution: Perfect scouting, perfect mechanics and of course, perfect responses to everything your opponent is doing. That's Idra's aspiration, and that's why he gets pissed off when the opponents sneak something cheesy or when they exploit something which hasn't have a discovered response (void rays/collosi ball). Emphasis mine above. The idea of the "perfect response" is telling. In a game of simultaneous moves or incomplete information, the perfect response isn't always the same thing. Go on wikipedia and look up the idea of mixed-strategy Nash equilibria some time. In real games, the perfect response is to randomly choose between several possible actions at different frequencies. A simple example is rock paper scissors. What is the perfect strategy? It is to play 33% of each move in a totally random pattern. Any deviation from this can be exploited and beaten by an opponent who plays the same move every time. IdrA needs to learn to understand this. Chance is part of the game, it is inseparable from the fact that the game involves incomplete information and simultaneous moves. There is no guaranteed win, there is only having "the best of it", the best chance of winning across all games and all possible outcomes. In poker, you MUST bluff with some frequency or you will be exploited. In Starcraft, you MUST rush or cheese with some frequency or you will be exploited. Not necessarily. It is often optimal to play an exploitable style if your opponent isn't good enough to exploit that style (or if he simply chooses not to because he has his own plan or whatever). This is true in poker and in Starcraft. I agree though that people do need to learn that randomness is going to be a part of the game no matter what, and they need to realize that a 100% winrate is not going to be possible even if you are always the "best" player.
Indeed, if your opponent is making mistakes, you should play a non-equilibrium strategy to exploit him.
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xaneda, stop trying to be a wiseass. cruncher obviously faked the shark mode poke you do after 3 gate expanding to force the zerg to make units. Idra hadn't seen all the gates and saw a pretty high number of sentries and assumed it was this, but it turned out to be a gateway all-in.
(and yes, there can be stalkers with this if u choose to go for less sentries and delay the poke a little)
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On March 28 2011 09:53 xaneda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:48 imbs wrote:
i know it wasnt, idiot. thats what cruncher disguised it as and what idra saw No. Idra saw stalkers too with his lings. Rewatch the VOD. As someone who frequently identifies 6gate all ins and beats them this is pretty basic knowledge, you can have a rough idea of your opponent's strategy is based on his unit composition which is what idra had, and decided to risk making more drones when a mass warpgate all in had not been ruled out. This is why he lost. What is hard to understand about that?
there is no vod up at the minute so i cant check, but cruncher was definitely trying to make it look like the usual sentry/zealot push.
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On March 28 2011 10:01 dre2k wrote:
xaneda, stop trying to be a wiseass. cruncher obviously faked the shark mode poke you do after 3 gate expanding to force the zerg to make units. Idra hadn't seen all the gates and saw a pretty high number of sentries and assumed it was this, but it turned out to be a gateway all-in.
Idra indeed lost because of incorrect assumptions. Glad we could agree.
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Is there a Cruncher fanclub?
User was warned for this post
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On March 28 2011 10:19 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote:
Is there a Cruncher fanclub?
If there is, this isn't it, so scoot!
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On March 28 2011 04:08 unoriginalname wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:49 unoriginalname wrote:So there are some rumours on 4chan (yes I'm stupid enough to believe some of them as they can prove to be true), it is a spoiler so look at your own risk. + Show Spoiler +Respond in spoiler tags too if you would! Okay it was apparently true, if the other rumoured results are true then TSL goes as follows. + Show Spoiler +The above could also be wrong though, as I said they are rumours. Well, I'll certainly be rooting for IdrA at MLG next week, hopefully he gets further in that and doesn't face any Protoss which is undoubtedly his weakest match-up.
how did this guy know the results before they were posted unless he had access to replays or is a tourny admin unless are players told him which is extremely unlikely. moreover, the results are blocked from match history as they: either don't even appear as games in match history or were played on 7hr trials which have no way of being tracked due to 0 association (through no laddering).
edit: these were posted RIGHT after
idra
+ Show Spoiler + cruncher
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I swear to god that these are fixed matches... idra, nestea, fruitdealer, mvp, genius, jinro getting knocked out...
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Just because your favorite player lost doesn't mean its rigged. 
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On March 28 2011 11:44 Antiochus wrote:Just because your favorite player lost doesn't mean its rigged.
It's nice to think it was.
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: )
User was temp banned for this post.
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+ Show Spoiler +It's a shame to have seen Idra get knocked out. His play was absolutely phenomenal in game 2 though, brilliantly coordinated drops.
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On March 28 2011 12:03 DueSs wrote:
: )
Enjoy your vacation buddy.
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You have to respect Idra because of his talent for the game. But it is difficult not to be happy for Cruncher after seeing Idra's BM. 
Congrats, Cruncher!!!
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Australia1058 Posts
On March 28 2011 08:13 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 08:06 Cynexyst wrote:On March 28 2011 07:41 Spekulatius wrote:On March 28 2011 07:37 Cynexyst wrote:
Weird how all the people saying cruncher outplayed idra are getting banned, but people that whine about FF's or balance aren't. I HIGHLY doubt what you say there is even close to being true. And if it is, then just because the mods aren't fast enough to skim the 400 pages of the LR thread that I guess you're referring to. Btw, relevance of this post to a fan club thread? edit: god I'm too tired to write. That TSL weekend was exhausting I was talking about these, in this thread: jesus pvz is so disgusting LMFAO AT CRUNCHER
this game IS TERRIBLE. Its unbelievable how bad Cruncher actually is. He would use a 6 gate. Terrible player Forcefields are retarded. FF is so op protoss is ezmode fuck cruncher and all these fag field using noobs Make forcefields.Kill zerg. Aaaaaand now we can go back to talking about how fucked zerg is. Like I said, all of these were in this very thread. So apparently it's ok to cry about imbalance in this thread but not anywhere else? Hm... most of them actually violate the forum guidelines. I assume the mods are still busy in the LR thread. I'd be surprised if they actually allowed such posting, even though they might be slightly more tolerant since this is IdrA's thread. Dunno.
Generally in these fanclubs theres a loosening of the rules it seems. Basically allows people to bitch about stuff somewhere as you can't anywhere else on TL. I mean you tell someone to go fuck themselves you are still going to get banned but imbalance whines are let slide sometimes. Ofcourse I could say this and then all those guys get warned/banned but theres been a lot of stuff in this thread like that that hasn't gotten people banned.
Want to see how idra can go at MLG hopefully he an win again like Dallas? was it dallas?
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On March 28 2011 12:30 FalconToss wrote:You have to respect Idra because of his talent for the game. But it is difficult not to be happy for Cruncher after seeing Idra's BM. Congrats, Cruncher!!!
Do you people really not realize you're typing this in the idra fanclub?
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Mods have stepped in to say that if people stop talking balance they will start banning, but they don't start right away. Mainly because it isn't really discussion, it's just people pissed that their favorite player lost.
If this were a strategy thread, everyone would be banned with impunity.
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On March 28 2011 11:26 .Sic. wrote:
I swear to god that these are fixed matches... idra, nestea, fruitdealer, mvp, genius, jinro getting knocked out...
Only under the assumption that all these players are consistently good. FruitDealer, Genius, NesTea and MVP for example all got knocked out in group stage last GSL and MVP even got knocked down to Code A. Personally I think MKP would have won over MVP if he(thats MarineKing) didn´t for some reason stop using his trademark playstyle and try to win the final by playing "standard". Just my opinion and offtopic too.
Come to think of it, it is a bit on topic: If Idras style wouldn´t be macroing up to 200/200 while surviving, then kill him with better economy, he could be more successful.
If you want to have the unstoppable 200/200 army, just play protoss. The fact that colossi stack with air and ground on the same spot makes it the most compact army. Colossi only have unit collision with other colossi, like they´re in some kind of freak space between ground and air.
My point is, recently people like julyzerg have shown that zerg can wear down t and p just by continuosly attacking, making the 300 food push obsolete. If you can do the same thing better at 80-100 food, why wait for maxed armies?
While I´m ranting, even if there is a most optimal buildorder/playstyle for a race depending or not depending on maps, every buildorder will have inherent weaknesses that can be figured out. If there was a playstyle/buildorder without any weakness, it would make sc2 a bad game.
Compared to rock paper scissors, if there is one option that´s better than the others, you can have mind games. Rock is good, so I want to play it. But he expects me to play rock, so he will choose paper. I counter that with playing the very weak option scissors that beats paper.
If, say, you could play rock so well it would beat paper, the game would become very old very fast. If you would need to cut your hand off to play scissors, paper would become the only option, even though rock is actually better.
And Idra basically plays paper every game, since scissors is stupid. Logically everyone should play rock, so paper beats that.
It makes me cringe because I really think Idra has world class mechanics, refined buildorders and superior micro. Its just this religious believe that one and only one good buildorder should be able to beat everything that let´s bad players beat him with badly executed buildorders that are chosen because they counter his buildorder in some or the other.
/rant
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EPT
