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On October 31 2010 08:43 s_side wrote:I have no idea where the last real update was, but I'll cover the broadstrokes of the failure of Max 2(Molle's failed "5 front" invasion of the North) since it directly ties into the downfall of Atlas and -A-. A few factors during Max 2 foreshadowed the demise of 2 of the 3 major alliances in the South in the last couple of months. Firstly, it was apparent that the Southern Coalition was really nothing like the Northern Coalition, mainly in that it was not much of a "coalition" at all. The SC had a much looser affiliation and was more a marriage of convenience than the "best friends forever,"cohesive (for Eve) group that the Northern Coalition was and is. Despite the raw numbers being firmly in favor of the invaders, their absurdly fragmented communication and intelligence avenues resulted in uncoordinated attacks, horrendous timing and standings issues. Numbers were never brought to bear in the right places, some alliances didn't bother to show up until weeks after others; in short, it was a mess. It didn't help that Molle's plan was vague, naive and ridiculously optimistic. It became very clear early on in the campaign that the SC was an ineffective fighting formation. In contrast to this, the NC was generally well-organized, and more importantly, unified. This was partially due to their advantage as defenders. The way Dominion Sov works essentially means that the attacker has to organize themselves and win continuous battles over timers for a week while the defender can set them almost back to square one by winning a single battle over a single timer. That, combined with the homefield advantage of knowledge of the space and JB networks can't be overlooked. Additionally, the "hearts and minds" aspect in large scale Eve conflict is just as big if not bigger than in real world conflict (you can't just not log into life). All the NC members, from the leading Razor and Morsus Mihi alliances, down to the third or fourth tier scrub alliances was fighting for their space (and their precious supply of Jewgold and Anoms). The goal was far from that simple for the Southern Alliances. Molle had presented it as the complete annihilation of the NC, but everyone knew that was not a possibility. The best case scenario, as most reasonable people saw it, was taking some nice chunks of NC space to be divied up amongst participants. The leading alliances would most likely have gotten a bunch of Jewgold and systems to rent, and the lesser alliances maybe a highend or two each and a less profitable constellation. How whatever was gained would be split up was not clear at all to the average grunt. But, I digress. With those advantages noted, the NC was still much better organized and able to work with each other. Simple things like getting everyone in a fleet on the same comms was something the NC had done many times before, and they, unsurprisingly, didn't forget how to do it when the Southerners came knocking. They also had a much better attitude in general towards mixed fleets and a variety of FCs. If a fleet lead by a Majesta Empire FC got beat to shit, members of other alliances wouldn't smack and refuse to join future fleets lead by that FC or another from the alliance. The same was not true for SC fleets. There was an amazing amount of drama and bullshit even between SC groups in the same powerbloc (e.g. Atlas+/GC/CoW). Atlas was the first to pull out. Bobby Atlas (alliance leader) placed the blame in Molle's lap and basically dragged him through the mud (not unfairly, to be honest). Show nested quote +
I am going to start off first by saying I am sorry, sorry for allowing the cluster fuck that is this campaign and the h-w situation to have happened or more importantly to have allowed it to get so bad.
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One of the straining points of the plan was that it was all created on a rather hasty whim by SirMolle on a Thursday night after a number of his FC's and best grunts started to scream at him for action or they were leaving.
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I am going to try keep the rest of this short, the entirety of this NC campaign is and has been a joke, it never materialized as was envisioned and the sooner everyone involved realizes that the less retarded everyone will look. I really don't give a shit what people think about us for pulling out but we are going home. The allies we care about know we are leaving and understand, the rest of them, well thats really only IT -- I don't really care what they think. I have a feeling the only thing this campaign has proven among the SC alliances, is to never let IT lead another campaign.
-A- soon followed suit. This virtually assured that even in the face of a large scale invasion of the South, IT would not intervene on behalf of their (former) Southern Coalition buddies.
Who are these intiative guys? Are they backed by the north? How did they manage to topple the two southern powers? Was there anything IT could have done?
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See this story is so interesting and I want to know how Goonsquad went from such a good situation apparently having utterly destroyed and humiliated BoB to now being isolated up in the northwestern corner of the space and Velve appears to be back where it was before the whole thing hit... But I just havent had the time to sort through 70+ pages to get the rest of the story :/ plus whenever I look its a lot of people taklinga bout unrelated EVE stuff. Is there any post in particular that sums it up?
This story while amazingly interesting and entertaining to read the goonsquad guys crack me up cuz they remind me of other clans that I've known. It reminds me why I don't play this game so much time invested in this game was killed in that war. EVE while friendlier to people who dont grind by allowing skills to build up over offline time is also meaner in that when you lose something like a titan that's so much real life time lost.. ouch
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It seems the Goons trolled themselves by forgetting to pay their the sov. bill. The monthly bill (in ISK) is required for each system one owns, and the big alliances etc have it set on auto payment. The wallet which Goons set had insufficient funds (they forgot to top up). The bill bounced and their sov was lost. The bill which Goons could easily pay but the isk just wasn't in the right wallet.
Without the sov Goon-owned stations -where they kept most of their ships- are no longer invulnerable. Therefore, anyone can attack the stations and flip the station to them, a process which usually requires days can be done in a few hours. So Goons lost their sov, many people jumped in and attacked the stations thus flipping over the ownership.
By the time the majority of the Goons logged in and realised what was going on, their stations had been camped and retrieving their ships would have been suicidal. IT alliance (ex-bob) took advantage and basically took over their entire system.
Basically Goons lost Delve and Querious nearly the same way BoB did. Except this time it was Goons losing their system because of a simple mistake, and what made them lose the system so fast was because they didn't really have access to their ships so they'd lose pretty much all the battles. Goons only owned Delve/Querious systems for about a year.
Some time after that, Goons would end up taking over Tau Ceti's system in the far north (Tau ceti gave their system to Goons citing that they wanted to move systems or something, they were quite buddy buddy anyway.)
Not too sure what happened in the south. CVA space got owned by AAA (i think) but now they are on the process of taking back their system. The Initiative has the old AAA space, and White Noise owns the space which belonged to Atlas alliance (before them - Goons). Prehaps someone more familiar with this area can explain what happened.
I'm not too familiar with what's going on in eve, it was basically what i've been told by friends who do play the game.
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Thats both kind of sad and hilarious at the same time with the fact that the first thing BoB thought what happened was is that they forgot to pay a bill. Then a year later Goons do it.. I guess they really are like they say the worst alliance in the game. They took over by all accounts the best territory then forget to pay the bills on it lol. I gotta think that they thought it was hilarious though
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Who are these intiative guys? Are they backed by the north? How did they manage to topple the two southern powers? Was there anything IT could have done?
IT had no desire to help -A- and atlas, its quite well explained in the post you quoted. also initiative isnt backed by the north (unless something horrible happened in the last few months), it was part of the southern coalition, they just took over space when a/atlas "went away" im guessing
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Starting from where the last update left off:
The great Northern Invasion (usually called Max 2) had failed in spectacular fashion. Atlas and -A- were still outwardly friendly to each other, and, it seemed, would support each other if their sov were threatened. They still roamed each others space and shot at each others' pets, however. This was a relatively significant difference between the NC and the SC.
The North was (and is) a gigantic blue blob. The alliances that are members stay blue to each other even when there isn't a serious sov contest to anyone's space. In general, the Southern entities usually were neutral to alliances which were not a part of their immediate power bloc (Atlas, -A- or IT). This gave alliances more stuff to shoot at and more chances for ~goodfitez~. For pilots focused mostly on pvp, it's a pain in the ass to have to go 40 jumps to find targets (why I could never be in any NC alliance).
That aside, there were significant internal issues in -A-, Atlas and even their "vassal" alliances. These internal issues took a few forms. Firstly, -A-, Atlas and their allies were having "bloating" problems like many major spaceholding alliances do. The opportunity to rat and run the newly upgraded anomalies was what drew lots of pilots out to large 0.0 alliances. Becoming part of a large, or in some cases gigantic, entity meant more safety for the pilots and was also attractive to alliance leadership who knew how important numbers were to protecting their space. The key, however, is to having numbers that translate well into fleet numbers.
In the case of Atlas and -A-, even before the clusfterfuck of the Northern Campaign, many of the older, most skillfull and (most importantly) willful pilots had gotten bored with Eve (that will always be a factor, seeing as this game is almost a decade old) and frustrated with the increasingly unplayable state of the servers. Some had just grown complacent and were happy to exploit the resources of the region and pump out supercaps. Much of the new blood was either inexperienced and ineffective in pvp roles, or were simply more interested in shooting at NPCs and padding their pockets than they were in PvPing.
Equally troubling for the South was the either complete or semi-absence of leadership.The phenomenon of burnt out and afk leaders is a common one in Eve.It makes sense that usually the most experienced (and oldest) pilots are the ones in positions of leadership. However, considering the often tedious and extremely time consuming burden of running an alliance, the people in leadership positions have a tendency to lose interest in logging in to internet spaceships. One of the great strengths of the leading NC alliances (Morsus Mihi and Razor), as I see it, is the smooth fashion in which power has been passed along. It seems, from an admittedly outsider's perspective, that egos have rarely got in the way of what's best for the alliances long term. That was not the case with -A- or Atlas.
The three main southern powerblocks were all basically built around three cults of personality belonging to SirMolle of IT, EvilThug of Against ALL Authorities, and Bobby Atlas of (you guessed it TL.net!) Atlas Alliance. In late summer '10, the only one of these three actively leading his alliance was Molle. EvilThug had been completely inactive for more than a year. He had however, at least passed along power and roles in the alliance. Unfortunately for -A-, his sucessors allowed the alliance to wallow in complacency and mediocrity, growing fat on anoms and Jewgold, shitting out supercaps. Bobby Atlas had been mostly inactive since the Geminate invasion during the winter of 2010. However, not only did he not groom a successor or properly equip his alliance directors to run the alliance in his abscence, he active undermined anyone who took initiative and get things done for the alliance. Admittedly, most of his quality FCs had already burnt out and mostly quit Eve by this time, but the "up and comers," so to speak, would take action only to have Bobby log in for the first time in weeks, to undo anything they did, bitch about things then disappear again.
To give some perspective from a TL point of view, during all this internal unrest, I was running Liquid Inc. as a member corp of Gentlemen's Club, a member of Atlas block. The problems of GC in many ways mirrored those of our "big brothers." Our alliance founder and leader, Mya, had stepped down due to RL reasons. He was only willing to entrust the alliance to a long-standing member of his corp, MukkBarovian. Mukk, begrudgingly took over, but really wanted nothing to do with the politics and logistics of running an alliance. His primary love in Eve, much like my own, was PvP at the cost of all else. When he predictably burned out on running the show (it's an amazing amount of work running even a medium sized alliance like GC was) Mya basically vetoed anyone else taking over. The biggest corp in GC went to Atlas (oops), and the alliance slowly decayed to the point of evac'ing our 0.0 in Scalding Pass and moving to NPC 0.0.
As this was happening, many entities in Eve had begun to realize the precarious situation that the Southern Blocks had found themselves in. They were basically paper tigers holding enormous swathes of Eve's conquerable space. The Goons (after their hilarious disbanding and then reformation) were homeless, so they came down to mess around in Scalding Pass and Great Wildlands, which were, incidentally, their old stomping grounds. Their impact was negligible. What ended up setting the South on fire was the joint invasion of the Russian alliance White Noise and their hired guns, Pandemic Legion.
To be continued
[NOTE] I meant to make this all just one concise post about how the South burned and who "rose from the ashes" so to speak (ooo dramatic). When I started writing it, I just got caught up in the backstory, so my apologies for the intense tl;dr-ness.
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Dude, there is no tldr in this thread. Anyone interested has probably read the op which is several hours of reading. Most of us only come to this thread for the backstory!
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Just wondering, I havnt played in a long time so, yeh. -A- and Atlas both died due to lack of leadership and stuff and now the only remains on BoB/IT is them and systematic chaos? Also, who's the russian alliance? It makes me think of all the people in the drone regions...
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Yah I just spent several hours reading all that, pretty interesting...wish I had gotten into EVE back then to join in on all that fun.
It makes me sad though that after all that epicness Goon went through they forget to pay the bill and get shafted...
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On November 29 2010 15:14 Horuku wrote:
Yah I just spent several hours reading all that, pretty interesting...wish I had gotten into EVE back then to join in on all that fun.
It makes me sad though that after all that epicness Goon went through they forget to pay the bill and get shafted...
Yeah but it's the perfect goonie move. Ever since their origins they've always been a carefree corp with a love for all things griefing. It's a quintessential goon move to go "yeah BOB we fucked you up but oops we forgot to pay the rent here's your space back." From being a group of fuckups in Rifters, to being the biggest group of fuckups with Titans, they at least stay in character.
To be honest I've never seen them as a spaceholding corp. I see them as the dudes that bring frigates to fleet ops and battleships to suicide gank miners. I still hope that someday they reattempt to take back Delve, but for now that seems to be a long shot.
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Losing Delve was actually a blessing in disguise; Delve is a moneysink now. Staying there would have destroyed Goons completely, although leaving the way we did was obviously not optimal. It brief:
When we took Delve from BoB, it was a haven. Tons of Prom moons, and lots of outposts we could bunk down in and make into tading hubs. It was pretty much Paradise.
Then Tyrannis came along.
Moon mining was rebalanced; Delve lost much of its income. Ratting was actually a better source of income for many systems, simply due to the number of Goons we had in the space. Also, recall the Outposts I mentioned - When Goons moved in, there were Outposts there already, and Goons plunked down several more for logistics. The cost of doing so was a pretty immense upfront payment, but little in the way of upkeep. This changed in Tyrannis - now player-created Outposts incurr a massive monthly fee. Many systems now cost more to own than you can make from the moon mining (although Planetary Interaction probably helped this out when it was released).
Furthermore, we set down a huge Jump Bridge network. This did cost a fair bit to run, but was really handy to have. After the change, another fee was added on on top of that, to keep the system linked ('Advanced Logistics'). Bascially, we were losing massive amounts of money just to stay there. That also means that the current owners are not making a mint, like Goons did before the changes.
I can't speak fro the directors, but I think the game plan was pretty much to either scale back our sov, or conduct 'scorched earth' tactics, just like we did before. Instead we got the usual comedy, which helps keep things interesting  . It's nice to come full circle.
Also, since we pretty much ruined Delve will our rempant Outpost dumping (and no, they can't be destroyed), we did conduct scorched earth, better than we could have imagined. Now no one can live there!
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Total outsider's POV here
so red alliance with white noise (and Pandemic Legion as mercenaries) took out Atlas Alliance. Initiative felt uncomfortable next to AAA who was acting less than friendly, so with White Noise and Dead Terrorists (and Pandemic Legion as mercenaries) took out AAA. DT then collapsed and AAA is making a comeback. That brings us to the present. IT seems to be helping Initiative in this fight. Curiously, goons gains sovereignty in a system in fountain just recently. Now would seem to be the time to invade / mess with ITs space, what with IT off helping Init not die to AAA.
Meanwhile, Evoke got booted from Cloud Ring and moved down to Providence. They, along with a resurgent CVA are squeezing out the smaller alliances that made up the Provi Fight Club, who mostly owe their position there to AAA, who of course are busy trying to take back their own space right now.
So at this point pretty much all of Goons' major enemies have been kicked to the curb at least once, even if they came back later. BoB is gone and lost Delve (since has it back). AAA, who betrayed them by siding with BoB have lost their space (may get it back). IRC lost theirs (they have new space) Atlas is gone. So even if Goons are in Deklein (heh) most of the big alliances that have messed with them have experienced the loss of their space, even if temporary. Meanwhile Red Alliance has Insmother, and the NC is still in the North. Pandemic has no space, but are doing what they love. That all kind of makes me feel good.
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NC also just spent a couple months invading the Drone Ruskis. They made some significant headway, but now everything has been taken back.
PL moved to Venal just to hang out and shoot at stuff. As the heat was increasing on the Russians, they hired us to hit NC holdings in Venal and harass their home space. We went wild, reinforced CSAAs, killed something like 15 motherships and a titan and took almost all of the tech moons in Venal (there are a shitload).
About a week ago the NC started pulling out of the Drone regions to come back and retake their stuff. It hasn't been going very well for them. We still hold 52 of the 53 tech moons we took. Even the top flight NC FCs like imperian and Vuk Lau aren't able to pull enough (read 3 to 1 at least) numbers to do much against us.
The tears are delicious. The following porn from the Morsus Mihi forums is courtesy of Veno.
Originally Posted by Fusion Pilious ok clearly we have alot of issues that will need to be aired, and hashed out over this fleet. No titan pilots could be asses with bridging us so we take gates and get hot dropped. Our bomber fleet is in target system so is of no help. we pew pew for a bit but can't brake there RR and somehow our logistics end up around 100kms from the AHACs which clearly does not help with our our RR Guys this is no ones fault if we do not start at the where were the god damn titan pilots? We were pretty much outclassed the whole way and it starts with people not logging in not getting in fleet not being bothered. PL is not going to go anywhere as long as they can kick our asses and collect all the tech in the north. Flame Away! http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8222074http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8222142http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8222065Found where our titan pilot was, I guess MM ops are not as important as Brick Squad Ops.
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That's pretty bad forum porn if you ask me, especially coming from PL.
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How about a nice big update on everything happening for Christmas ? Pretty please?
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Looking at the influence map somethings happening at least :O -A- seems to be booting The Initiative from Tenerfis/Impass and other places, and something's happening in fountain... Iono who test alliance please ignore are... but yeah.
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-A- is indeed winning back most of their holdings from INIT. This isn't all that surprising seeing as it was PL who actually kicked -A- out of their space in the first place, with INIT just being there to drop the TCUs.
The Goonies and TEST (reddit.com's Eve alliance) have been pushing into IT sov in fountain. IT is having a lot of internal issues that is making matters worse. Two of their biggest and most active corps, x13 and FinFleet, have recently departed.
PL has been hired by IT to move into Goonies/TEST backyard and defuse their offensive the same way that they defused the NC offensive against Droneland Ruskies. All that's happened so far on that front is terrible posting all around.
I'll try to keep this thread better updated.
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TEST is not reddits corp, dreddit is reddit's, TEST is just former goons I believe.
The war in fountain has been very boring, there were a few great fights, several 1000+ fights however IT were on the downside once the station system PNQY was taken. From there it was just a formality that the rest followed, right now DC and co own a good chunk of fountain, gaining over 20 systems in the past 3-4 days alone. With more information leaks that IT is losing members, with Finfleet and x13 leaving ; IT is failcascading. Mittani (test commander) has sounded the horn of gondor.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b2gBL.jpg)
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I wish I had started playing EVE instead of some other games back in the day.
Alas its too late now.
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On January 25 2011 13:33 genwar wrote:TEST is not reddits corp, dreddit is reddit's, TEST is just former goons I believe. The war in fountain has been very boring, there were a few great fights, several 1000+ fights however IT were on the downside once the station system PNQY was taken. From there it was just a formality that the rest followed, right now DC and co own a good chunk of fountain, gaining over 20 systems in the past 3-4 days alone. With more information leaks that IT is losing members, with Finfleet and x13 leaving ; IT is failcascading. Mittani (test commander) has sounded the horn of gondor.
Not sure if you're trolling or not, but dreddit is the executor corp of TEST alliance and is most definitely reddit's Eve corp.
Furthermore, Mittani is the Goon alliance commander.
EDIT: I really hope this is a troll. If not, you are a fucking retard and you should never post in this thread again.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
