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Hi guys. I been lurking a while etc. This is not a troll, it's real.
I got married to the wrong woman, about 7 yrs ago. I loved her, and that was more important than whatever was less than ideal, but I guess not for her, and she was just lying to herself and me, and making me think she was in love with me. I moved to China with her, cause it was her dream to teach for in China. I liked the idea because I wanted to try living somewhere else, maybe find a simple life, affordable life, and I kinda did. I like it more than the U.S.
After 1 yr of that, we went back to the U.S. to look at teaching jobs or maybe grad schools, but everything kept falling through and we ended up looking at teaching another year in korea, but our recruiter kept falling through on us, and so we went with an old backup plan, back to China, but this time diff city.
So we fly into there, and we have about 2 weeks of training. During that time, she starts avoiding me (we usually do everything together), and when I tell her that I am getting weird feelings about how much time she's spending with this other guy, she tells me she isn't going to stay with me, and so that's basically it. I'm crushed a really long time about this, but I can see now, I really would be better off not loving her, even if I do.
So that was about 6 months ago. I've just been living in this city in China. Drinking every day, more or less, awkwardly hitting on girls, or whatever. I guess I don't really wanna talk about it. I just don't know if i'll ever get my shit together now. I fall so fast for these girls, and then I, out of habit, try to pick up ones that I don't like, and it's really awkward. I am figuring this stuff out slowly.
But China is a little complicated for relationships, I mean, they are usually thinking about marriage, or they don't trust foreigners, or they are alcoholics who were dumped by a foreigner and now get drunk and start calling every man the name of their ex. Seriously I keep running into this...
But I got really sick a couple weeks ago, or maybe a week, I'm not really sure about things like that. But since then, I stopped drinking. But I am not sure if it's really better. Now that I'm sober, I think I am way less comfortable and fun. I wake up early all the time, and then I'm too tired (I work in the evenings). And I seem to make even worse decisions with girls. Like right now, there's a bar girl who's in love with me, but I am not sure I like her, and then my friend's gf is always coming over to my place, and the girl who works nextdoor to my work is coming on strong to me, and I'm really not sure about her, and she was like trying to pick me up and then I got cold feet, like... idk. more things too. I mean, if I just have 4-5 drinks (minimum) a day, I think that works out better for me. I don't really get in trouble.
But I like not drinking because, hopefully, it makes those nights less where I get way too drunk, way too sick, spend all my money. That's what I am trying to lessen. I'm sure a lot of you have gone through similar things. I know the textbook answers, just looking for other people's experiences. I know it's not conventional to have an open mind about whether or not to drink--most people just say it's bad but do it anyways. I'm not really like that. I think it might be a trade-off, but I'm not sure how able I am to make it, so I just want some more perspectives and experiences. Also with the girls of course.
  
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Sounds kind of rough, man. However, it does seem that you're having quite a bit of luck with the women. Even though you don't really like the ones who are following you around at the moment, maybe you'll be able to find one you DO like if you just keep trying.
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Leave china, go back to the US or somewhere else.
Dont stay were you are now. New environment means a new start into a new life.
Stop dinking, move to another country and start out completely new.
GL
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Who knows, but my ad hoc advice would be:
1 Take a break from relationships/women. Give yourself time to yourself. 6 months is nothing. Seriously. Nothing, noone you meet right now is going to work out. Even if, even if somehow magically you met The Right One now, you'd screw it up because of the state you are in/the point you are at in life right now. Which would be a waste. You totally do -not- want to meet the Right One For You now, because you'd be no good to her. Step back. Time for that later.
2 I'm extrapolating but it sounds like you don't have support systems in place in China where you are now? If I'm wrong it's different, but generally speaking, if you have lost major stability in one area of your life, you need to rest on some of the stability in other areas. It's true moving back to the US would mean changes in your work life which isn't so great - but if you have family and longer-term friends back there, I think you should seriously consider it. Support systems, networks of people who care about you, who have known you long enough and well enough to know when you are kidding yourself or getting yourself into trouble - they are the sort of people you want to have around at this point in your life. Being alone in a foreign country - not so good in the stability and security department.
In general terms, while it tears you apart to have invested so much time and effort into a relationship which ends up deadending, that doesn't mean there won't be something else, maybe even something better, if in a different way, down the road. Just don't live you life relying on it happening tomorrow. It's banal but it's true - you aren't going to be any good to anyone else if you are a mess yourself.
Just my thoughts. Hang in there. It will come together.
Oh PS. On the alcohol thing? It's not always the case - but generally speaking, it just gets worse, never better. If you are in a position to be able to think logically and rationally about your alcohol use at this point, and think you are able to step away from it, I think you should. There may be a point down the road when you will no longer be able to make that decision. Not good.
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I think you should enjoy life for a while, but definitely do not date until you and the other party are both ready physically and mentally. Also if you don't like drinking try not to get pressured into it, it may seem weird in many cultures but you should just relax.
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Man that's a really shitty situation for you, I feel your pain, but drinking that much so regularly is gonna ruin you. It sounds like you are not sure whether to drink or not to drink focusing on what's better for your psyche.
But just for your physical body it's toxic what you're doing. I'm a med student and working in hospitals you get to see so freaking many cases of Liver Cirrhosis, a large majority of those cases all caused by alcoholism and often with similar stories like yours, married people whose wife ended up cheating on them.
I also think that moving some place else might be a good idea but it's hard to judge that for someone else.
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Wow are you serious? 2 weeks and that is enough to throw away 7 years of marriage and more before that? That is one fucked up girl you had there, at least you didn't have a kid.
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If China's anything like Korea, you'll have a hard time finding the right girl. The local girls who'll hook up with a foreigner and aren't just trying to use you are few (not nonexistent - my boss is married to a Korean girl, and she's perfect for him). Most of the foreigners here are teaching, half of them are married, and all of them are a particular kind of person who likes teaching and travelling. Basically, the pool of people is very, very small.
Don't you have any family or friends who you can stay with for a while until you get back on your feet? Get back in touch with your friends.
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On November 28 2010 01:33 BottleAbuser wrote:
If China's anything like Korea, you'll have a hard time finding the right girl. The local girls who'll hook up with a foreigner and aren't just trying to use you are few (not nonexistent - my boss is married to a Korean girl, and she's perfect for him). Most of the foreigners here are teaching, half of them are married, and all of them are a particular kind of person who likes teaching and travelling. Basically, the pool of people is very, very small.
Don't you have any family or friends who you can stay with for a while until you get back on your feet? Get back in touch with your friends.
Why is that? How are they using foreigners?
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Take a break from girls and head back to the states. I can't understand your situation since I haven't been in something similar but you really do want to be in a comfortable situation,with friends who can support you, and you need to get your shit together before finding another girl.
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Good advice, but the states isn't really better for me. I think you're right about the drinking, and yeah the girls thing is basically like you all said. But getting laid does really feel nice sometimes. But maybe it's just gonna fuck me up more because I keep wanting them all to be the right one and of course they aren't, or if they are, then that's even worse.
But the states--no, just no. No friends to reconnect with there. parents not useful for any of this. I'm 28 yrs old, so, idk, China is my life. My thoughts is, if I can moderate my substance intake, and find a girl as fucked up as me, maybe we can work something out, you know, use each other and stay out of each others' way the rest of the time, maybe raise kids later or whatever, but some girl without a big parental issue.
Just some random thoughts, I can put quality response later, I actually had a few drinks tonight, first time in over a week. The thing is, I think I stop for a while, whether it's drinking or whatever, but when I look at the calendar it actually hasn't been much time at all. Same thing with girls. Anyways, thanks for support, really surprised by the quality of people responding here. Here's an emoticon for your troubles. 
edit: Oh, and another city or country, not going home, but something new, that also sounds like good advice, but I also think I'm starting to fit here maybe. But it's good advice, I hope I keep considering it. I could go to Korea or Japan or elsewhere in China, for sure.
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you say you are from the US, are you white and she is white? i am curious of the races. WHo was this other guy? was he asian?
IF she was ethnically chinese, then this is a normal thing as interracial relationships almost always end this way. If she was white.
If you are chinese, i would stay in china. If you are white, i would come back to the US.
One thing thats hard for men to understand is that women are always , ALWAYS looking to climb the ladder. The reason a woman is with you, isnt because she loves you or is loyal to you. its because you are the most desireable* man she can land @ the time. If she finds a man who is more desireable* that wants her, then you will be left in the dust so fast it will make your head spin. Actually many men can not recover from this, as it sounds like you might not recover unless you pull yourself up by the bootstraps.
* desireable is the best word to describe womens attraction to men. It is basically a combination of three main categorys, these are, Looks, Money, Popularity/social standing
Not all women are the same, if a woman is already rich, like say serena williams for example, then looks become 90% of the pie chart. serena williams dates white male models.
Now lets say you have a gorgeous girl who comes from a poor family, her pie chart will look more like 25% looks, 50% money, 25% popularity.
IF you have a groupie, or a girl who loves music and musicians and men in bands, it will be
25% looks, 70% popularity/fame 5% money
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On November 28 2010 02:04 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 01:33 BottleAbuser wrote:
If China's anything like Korea, you'll have a hard time finding the right girl. The local girls who'll hook up with a foreigner and aren't just trying to use you are few (not nonexistent - my boss is married to a Korean girl, and she's perfect for him). Most of the foreigners here are teaching, half of them are married, and all of them are a particular kind of person who likes teaching and travelling. Basically, the pool of people is very, very small.
Don't you have any family or friends who you can stay with for a while until you get back on your feet? Get back in touch with your friends. Why is that? How are they using foreigners?
It's not as simple as that. Chinese women are too pragmatic and hard-headed to trust to the impulses of passion. Long used to accommodating necessity, and to living in a country where deception and exploitation are social norms, the choices of a Chinese woman amount to a lifelong struggle against her insecurities.
To the Chinese, the manner in which we are expected to "fall in love" in the West has a stamp of philistine carelessness about it. The Titanic plot of a young girl whimsically running off with a young man of no means would be anathema to Chinese scruples. Similarly, the family as the dominant social unit in China means that children have an overriding responsibility to their parents. Marriage in China is very much a family-oriented event.
I do not need to mention that contemplating a relationship without intentions of marriage can hardly be expected in China.
What does this mean for the prospective foreign husband? These will hardly succeed in seducing the rustic country girl. Such girls incarnate by instinct and breeding the traditional outlook of China- mistrustful, parochial, ethnocentric, and hateful of all improprieties which accompany outlandish people. Abnormality is delinquency, and foreigners can hardly fail to appear abnormal. That is one imperishable face of modern China.
The other side is of modern China is fascinated by the wealth, knowledge and even liberal outlook of Western countries. Now, the Chinese fascination is essentially conservative, and they would not admire the west so much if it did not provide a fit example of how despite greater openness and "individualism," life in the West seems safer and more secure than in China.
Therefore the position of the foreign man in the Chinese marriage market is a compromise between cautious aversion and naive hopefulness. To win over the more honest kind of Chinese girl, he would have to integrate into the Chinese value-system himself, something which is hardly possible and extremely undesirable for those not born into it. He never has a shot at more than a small fraction of Chinese women, as most would never give him a second thought. This will be especially true if he is shy or introverted.
Western men are more effeminate and self-conscious than the Chinese. There is a tacit expectation of give-and-take in a relationship, rather than rigid conformity to fixed domestic obligations, as exists in traditional Chinese life. Breakdown of harmony attends the abandonment of this rigid conformity.
At first, his careless approach to life is a recommendation to his wife. He is gentle and liberal. He is willing to heed her wants and desires far more than could be expected from a Chinese husband. These idyllic moments soon pass. A Chinese woman who is deferential and submissive in the beginning will soon perceive that her western husband lacks strength and ambition. His gentility is transformed into complacency, his liberality indifference. He does not treat family with sufficient seriousness. To her, a family is a fortress constantly besieged by barbarian outsiders. The soundness, and very unity of the family are predicated on the existence of a hostile and dangerous world. When her husband refuses to view the family- or the world- in such terms, her faith in him shatters.
Let us speculate that most who contemplate marrying a Chinese girl would hardly be considered good catches in their home countries. That alone is a portent of problems.
To keep a Chinese woman happy, it is not necessary for you to be tender or romantic, to defer to her or offer her a position of equality in the family. It would be nice for her if you treated her well, but it's much nicer if you were someone in your own right. Nothing breeds contempt in a Chinese woman in the long-run more than a romantic loser. There is nothing more certain to maintain her respect than status and power. If you make her your emotional crutch, rather than serve as her socio-economic support, your relationship with a Chinese woman will certainly fail. I believe the majority of failed Western-Chinese relationships can be reduced to this argument. The character flaw lies in the fact that you were attempting to use emigration to attain something you didn't earn in the first place. Things gained by opportunism usually reap a corresponding harvest.
If you are irrevocably disposed to marry a Chinese woman, be sure of never making the mistake of bringing her back to your country. It is irrelevant to her if by doing so you improve her material circumstances absolutely, by doing so you damage your social standing relatively. Marrying outsiders is against Chinese traditions and instincts. Her doing so will almost certainly be the consequence of reciprocal deception at worst, and naiveté at best.
I'm sure most people who have lived in China have learned not to trust outward appearances, and this principle extends fully to relationships.
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yeah zergplayerr really hows what he is on about. moltke does too
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Motke with another gem (facebook material), he doesn't account for whores though. I don't think OP is looking for a marriage in the first place, he sounds like he doesn't know what he wants. Sounds insane at times. Really shouldn't be getting into detail mentioning all those skanks trying to chase him, unless this was a flame bait post. Then I can spot some thinly veiled brag here and there to infuriate the reader. Of course there's a chance OP is serious which makes all of this really miserable. Hope everything somehow works out in the end.
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Not sure why he got banned, but not really looking into it either. Anyways, he hit several nails on their proverbial heads, tactful or not. Hope he may see my responses, and come back.
On November 28 2010 04:33 zergplayerr wrote:
you say you are from the US, are you white and she is white? i am curious of the races. WHo was this other guy? was he asian?
IF she was ethnically chinese, then this is a normal thing as interracial relationships almost always end this way. If she was white.
If you are chinese, i would stay in china. If you are white, i would come back to the US.
This is miss. Married before going to china, so we're both americans. And many would be offended if you thought it was relevant that we're both white. But what you're tactlessly stabbing at is real, and important, and covered much better by motlke below. Anyways, onto the "right" parts of your good post (b low).
One thing thats hard for men to understand is that women are always , ALWAYS looking to climb the ladder. The reason a woman is with you, isnt because she loves you or is loyal to you. its because you are the most desireable* man she can land @ the time. If she finds a man who is more desireable* that wants her, then you will be left in the dust so fast it will make your head spin. Actually many men can not recover from this, as it sounds like you might not recover unless you pull yourself up by the bootstraps.
People might not want to believe this about some situations, (their own), and maybe it's not always true, but this definitely fits what happened to me. I helped my wife get better, she got better access to people, so she "realized" she "never was really in love with me" or w/e. But basically, she realized she could get richer, better looking, more ambitious guys, or at least she felt like it was worth a try. I was the best she could get at the time, but after that, I wasn't, so she is gone. Fits pretty well with the behavior, regardless of what thoughts people are telling themselves to explain their feelings.
* desireable is the best word to describe womens attraction to men. It is basically a combination of three main categorys, these are, Looks, Money, Popularity/social standing
Not all women are the same, if a woman is already rich, like say serena williams for example, then looks become 90% of the pie chart. serena williams dates white male models.
Now lets say you have a gorgeous girl who comes from a poor family, her pie chart will look more like 25% looks, 50% money, 25% popularity.
IF you have a groupie, or a girl who loves music and musicians and men in bands, it will be
25% looks, 70% popularity/fame 5% money
What I take away from this, and what I'd like to say in response to motlke's post in general, is that, yeah, there are unusual people out there, and of course they're hard to find. But there can be a little bit of hope, because people vary (like above).
On November 28 2010 04:50 MoltkeWarding wrote:
It's not as simple as that. Chinese women are too pragmatic and hard-headed to trust to the impulses of passion. Long used to accommodating necessity, and to living in a country where deception and exploitation are social norms, the choices of a Chinese woman amount to a lifelong struggle against her insecurities.
To the Chinese, the manner in which we are expected to "fall in love" in the West has a stamp of philistine carelessness about it. The Titanic plot of a young girl whimsically running off with a young man of no means would be anathema to Chinese scruples. Similarly, the family as the dominant social unit in China means that children have an overriding responsibility to their parents. Marriage in China is very much a family-oriented event.
I do not need to mention that contemplating a relationship without intentions of marriage can hardly be expected in China.
Very true in general. Even in "modern cities", girls basically are going to marry someone at age 25. They shop around, maybe change last minute, but they are going to get a husband, and love might be tempting or nice or biasing, but the idea is def more about gaining support for the family, all that stuff like you eloquently describe.
And it's hard to make the two clashing things work, I mean, a western guy doesn't exactly want to enter into a lifelong loveless marriage, so you have to have the marriage (appear) good both ways at the same time, i.e. it's going to be "romantic" but also materially acceptable.
What does this mean for the prospective foreign husband? These will hardly succeed in seducing the rustic country girl. Such girls incarnate by instinct and breeding the traditional outlook of China- mistrustful, parochial, ethnocentric, and hateful of all improprieties which accompany outlandish people. Abnormality is delinquency, and foreigners can hardly fail to appear abnormal. That is one imperishable face of modern China.
The other side is of modern China is fascinated by the wealth, knowledge and even liberal outlook of Western countries. Now, the Chinese fascination is essentially conservative, and they would not admire the west so much if it did not provide a fit example of how despite greater openness and "individualism," life in the West seems safer and more secure than in China.
Therefore the position of the foreign man in the Chinese marriage market is a compromise between cautious aversion and naive hopefulness. To win over the more honest kind of Chinese girl, he would have to integrate into the Chinese value-system himself, something which is hardly possible and extremely undesirable for those not born into it. He never has a shot at more than a small fraction of Chinese women, as most would never give him a second thought. This will be especially true if he is shy or introverted.
Very true. "the position of the foreign man in the Chinese marriage market is a compromise between cautious aversion and naive hopefulness." But honestly a lot of the Chinese value system isn't really repugnant to me, because I largely don't care one way or the other about most trivial things. If my means of making a living are impressive enough to make me a good husband to some girl who also I love and expect to find palletable for living with for a damn long time, raising kids etc., I could see that working. I mean, some of these women are just so good, how could you not want to settle down with them. It's not really romance, although of course those are nice. But they don't last as long. After the romantic part is over, will she be nice to have around? To be holding down the fortress with? I think a lot of them are. But I worry that the financial expectations are much bigger because there's her parents/grandparents type shit. It just never ends. I can easily support myself and several women here, but their families, I feel like the expectations can just compound endlessly.
So what you're saying applies very well to most people, but I might have a better chance than some. But of course I'll never be Chinese and a lot of these women don't want that anyways. Some of them actually don't like these Chinese males, really.
Western men are more effeminate and self-conscious than the Chinese. There is a tacit expectation of give-and-take in a relationship, rather than rigid conformity to fixed domestic obligations, as exists in traditional Chinese life. Breakdown of harmony attends the abandonment of this rigid conformity.
At first, his careless approach to life is a recommendation to his wife. He is gentle and liberal. He is willing to heed her wants and desires far more than could be expected from a Chinese husband. These idyllic moments soon pass. A Chinese woman who is deferential and submissive in the beginning will soon perceive that her western husband lacks strength and ambition. His gentility is transformed into complacency, his liberality indifference. He does not treat family with sufficient seriousness. To her, a family is a fortress constantly besieged by barbarian outsiders. The soundness, and very unity of the family are predicated on the existence of a hostile and dangerous world. When her husband refuses to view the family- or the world- in such terms, her faith in him shatters.
This is all true, especially of China, but really women will do this anywhere. When they realize their husband isn't some god that's going to provide so much, like a father or something, their faith in me shatters too. They just wanna feel safe, taken care of, and they in turn will do their role. It sounds horribly biggotted and sexist but how many households work this way vs. the idealized gender-neutral way, and how many households break down because of issues that can be best described in these "traditional" terms? If I approach a woman as an equal, I think largely she will approach me as weak, and not be very cooperative. It just doesn't work that way. A household isn't the U.N., not with most women... even if they think it can be. They are just naive about what they are doing to the men, I think.
Let us speculate that most who contemplate marrying a Chinese girl would hardly be considered good catches in their home countries. That alone is a portent of problems.
To keep a Chinese woman happy, it is not necessary for you to be tender or romantic, to defer to her or offer her a position of equality in the family. It would be nice for her if you treated her well, but it's much nicer if you were someone in your own right. Nothing breeds contempt in a Chinese woman in the long-run more than a romantic loser. There is nothing more certain to maintain her respect than status and power. If you make her your emotional crutch, rather than serve as her socio-economic support, your relationship with a Chinese woman will certainly fail. I believe the majority of failed Western-Chinese relationships can be reduced to this argument. The character flaw lies in the fact that you were attempting to use emigration to attain something you didn't earn in the first place. Things gained by opportunism usually reap a corresponding harvest.
While you're right about opportunism, and about romance, I think the two are being mixed together a little carelessly. Kind of like an is-ought move, re: the opportunism. If you are more valuable somewhere else, that may usually not be sufficient, but that doesn't mean it's not efficient... I mean, let's say you're a catch in your home country--what's special about the home vs. the foreign, i.e., could we moralistically also condemn them for not finding an even more challenging "pool" to compete in? Sure, maybe you're a catch in your home country. But what about more competitive countries? If we aren't obligated to "really earn it" in the hardest possible place, and there's nothing special about the "home", then it seems to follow there's also conversely nothing really behind the condemnation of moving to a slightly easier "pool" other than that it may mask other problems or be insufficient, which may be the kernel of truth in this condemnation. I would say, of course character flaws can't usually be dodged by just finding easier targets, or easier pools of targets. But hey, sometimes...
If you are irrevocably disposed to marry a Chinese woman, be sure of never making the mistake of bringing her back to your country. It is irrelevant to her if by doing so you improve her material circumstances absolutely, by doing so you damage your social standing relatively. Marrying outsiders is against Chinese traditions and instincts. Her doing so will almost certainly be the consequence of reciprocal deception at worst, and naiveté at best.
I'm sure most people who have lived in China have learned not to trust outward appearances, and this principle extends fully to relationships.
What I wanna say is that I want to feel the right way about my wife, but I don't think I will with a western woman. The western ideas fail so much harder, and aren't really tethered to reality at all. I'm down with what you're describing about Chinese marriage, and that's largely how I feel about them too. Of course personal feelings can matter a little, but I like women who can look further than that, and also think more seriously than that. They can, and they do...
"To keep a Chinese woman happy, it is not necessary for you to be tender or romantic, to defer to her or offer her a position of equality in the family. It would be nice for her if you treated her well, but it's much nicer if you were someone in your own right. Nothing breeds contempt in a Chinese woman in the long-run more than a romantic loser. There is nothing more certain to maintain her respect than status and power. If you make her your emotional crutch, rather than serve as her socio-economic support, your relationship with a Chinese woman will certainly fail."
This sounds great to me... when I was married, I was always just working to better the household, help her with her feelings, and looking for some support as well. I was ready to do this the rest of my life, but she was always wanting just more tender romance bullshit that is impossible to sustain for so many years, especially when all the serious shit is not being handled maturely. I would love a woman who would fit with what I was doing, and you are basically describing it.
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Not sure why he got banned, but not really looking into it either. Anyways, he hit several nails on their proverbial heads, tactful or not. Hope he may see my responses, and come back
Well I'm not sure but his post on another blog were really offending. Now it was so stupid that I don't know if he was either joking or being just stupid.
That and "fortheswarm" looks like his second account.
Show nested quote +One thing thats hard for men to understand is that women are always , ALWAYS looking to climb the ladder. The reason a woman is with you, isnt because she loves you or is loyal to you. its because you are the most desireable* man she can land @ the time. If she finds a man who is more desireable* that wants her, then you will be left in the dust so fast it will make your head spin. Actually many men can not recover from this, as it sounds like you might not recover unless you pull yourself up by the bootstraps. People might not want to believe this about some situations, (their own), and maybe it's not always true, but this definitely fits what happened to me. I helped my wife get better, she got better access to people, so she "realized" she "never was really in love with me" or w/e. But basically, she realized she could get richer, better looking, more ambitious guys, or at least she felt like it was worth a try. I was the best she could get at the time, but after that, I wasn't, so she is gone. Fits pretty well with the behavior, regardless of what thoughts people are telling themselves to explain their feelings.
You can see it this way, keep drinking ecause obviously you're just a step in some ladder theory that will always get walked over.
OR you can start taking care of your own self before being dependent of what one woman might think of you. Come on man, she left you, this is hard but that doesn't make you less of a human being.
Yes, she may have left you because she found someone more attractive to her than you, you might have left her to a more attractive girl also. This is how people meet and is the definition of being attracted by someone else.
Now, yes you can be sad if that is a big crush on your world but you can, as I said, now start to look for a fullfilment of yourself by your own accomplishments and not by the quality of the girl you're with. Why on earth would you pursue this sort of validation ? It won't make you happy, it will make your friends jealous maybe but that is not fulfilling.
Now, stop drinking, this cloud your judgement and kill your health, think about what you want for your core, your own selfish being. You must look inside yourself, see what you want to learn, what you want to experience and start doing that.
Live alone for a time, in the country you like best whatever it is. Experience new things and if you have some savings go to an adventure (travel) with a friend or family or alone if you feel like it.
In the end, you can cry, you can write here all you want about how she is a bitch that left you after having used you and stuff like that. The fact is, if you stay so down, that may even be the reason why she left you; being depressed for that only means she sorta "win". So forget about it, make it as if she died or something, and move on with YOUR OWN life, don't let the action of somebody else dictates your hapiness, you are not a slave.
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rezo, your comments seem to treat marriages the same as high school relationships. do you differentiate at all between them? i obv passed up on many better women and crushes because i already was committed to one woman. unfortunately she didnt feel the same way about marriage. of course in some circumstances you break your vows, but i don't think it's as simple as "oh, found someone a little better" or "oh, i think i need someone better than you, so nevermind."
and all this stuff about being great by yourself, what makes you think i wasn't. i was great before i met her. i went downhill because of the way our relationship worked, and especially how it ended. now i'm supposed to sit around becoming this great independent person even though the last 7 yrs of my life were accustomed to being really close to one person, always there when we need each other, to help each other, or at least trying or w/e. do you know what it's like to think you've got someone you can trust for the rest of your life, and sleep next to them every night for 7 yrs, make tons of decisions based around this, and then one day, you find that basically all that was fake and everything you put into that was basically stolen from you. it is not a good feeling, esp. if its your first week in a new foreign city, one you moved there with ur spouse, and you moved there partially because it seemed like an okay idea but it was part of a plan that involved the two of you as a couple, your future life together etc. and instead now you're just stranded there with a contract to finish, nobody in the city, and of course you're not gonna be very happy or attractive right after this happens to you...
idk, yeah it's whining, but i just don't understand how your advice fits a situation like this. once you've been happy like that, for a long fucking time, then it's suddenly gone. yeah it was easier not knowing what i was missing. now i don't really care about the relationships i can get. i can't go slowly enough to get into the ones i need. i'm not ready for the ones i need. i have to just sit around and take care of myself, and there's this hole, and the person who was ripped out of me is walking around the same city as me, being single, acting like she doesn't know me...
i didn't really comment much on the relationships part initially, i just was curious about the drinking. i think a lot of you are chasing, i don't know the term for it, but this kind of idea that people can ever "get back to normal", when really there isn't any such thing. i was once a young twenty something, and now i have 7 yrs of twisted baggage. i can't just become a normal divorced 28 yr old. i'm going to be the way i am for a large part. i have to find what fits with this, not try to become something else, something baseline, standard, "healthy", etc. because i don't see anybody really being any such thing anywhere along the way, at least not enough to call it "normal" or expect others to aspire to it, as if it can even be attained.
everybody i encounter is either innocent or broken, when it comes to things like this. everybody broken in their own ways. i don't mean this poetically, like emo, i mean, everybody's complicated, so spending time on "my own life"--like what? what's so interesting? playing sc? reading internet blogs? mountain climbing? i should pick up a bunch of hobbies like that, and then i can just walk up to women and be like, hey, i like rock climbing, and then ultimately i can start to have those things that people like to have? sorry, i care about people, not "activities" or "pasttimes"... is that too weird?
i mean, leisure should be to really better yourself, your life, etc. (it's the same thing). to exclude relationships with other people from that, to make them into two separate categories, is just nonsense. to say, i need to play soft hobbies so i can become a level 5 and then gain access to the hard hobbies tree, it's just absurd.
sorry a bit incoherent rant, but some thoughts.
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rezo, your comments seem to treat marriages the same as high school relationships. do you differentiate at all between them? i obv passed up on many better women and crushes because i already was committed to one woman. unfortunately she didnt feel the same way about marriage. of course in some circumstances you break your vows, but i don't think it's as simple as "oh, found someone a little better" or "oh, i think i need someone better than you, so nevermind."
In your marriage it looks like you are the only one thinking this way, the vows didn't seem that strong to her. There is no common laws about relationships, yes I think marriages are not that different from any relationship, I only think it becomes more complicated when kids and money is involved.
and all this stuff about being great by yourself, what makes you think i wasn't. i was great before i met her. i went downhill because of the way our relationship worked, and especially how it ended. now i'm supposed to sit around becoming this great independent person even though the last 7 yrs of my life were accustomed to being really close to one person, always there when we need each other, to help each other, or at least trying or w/e. do you know what it's like to think you've got someone you can trust for the rest of your life, and sleep next to them every night for 7 yrs, make tons of decisions based around this, and then one day, you find that basically all that was fake and everything you put into that was basically stolen from you. it is not a good feeling, esp. if its your first week in a new foreign city, one you moved there with ur spouse, and you moved there partially because it seemed like an okay idea but it was part of a plan that involved the two of you as a couple, your future life together etc. and instead now you're just stranded there with a contract to finish, nobody in the city, and of course you're not gonna be very happy or attractive right after this happens to you...
Yes this is a hard blow, it saddens me and I do not wish it for anyone, I can see that, I'm trying to get you out of it but you are currently walking the other way, you are diving in your melancoly.
I'm not saying this for you to be attactive either. You can be happy without a woman, you even say it yourself you were happy before her what forbid you to come back to your old self ?
I'm not trying to tell you my way is the only way, this is just a more elaborate advice than "yes I know it sucks women are bitches" and "Quit drinking, stop seeing girls" (well it's kinda like that I'm just trying to give you motivation to do that).
idk, yeah it's whining, but i just don't understand how your advice fits a situation like this. once you've been happy like that, for a long fucking time, then it's suddenly gone. yeah it was easier not knowing what i was missing. now i don't really care about the relationships i can get. i can't go slowly enough to get into the ones i need. i'm not ready for the ones i need. i have to just sit around and take care of myself, and there's this hole, and the person who was ripped out of me is walking around the same city as me, being single, acting like she doesn't know me...
I see your pain, ranting it may spit it out. But you also have to get over it, there is absolutly nothing else to do about it.
i didn't really comment much on the relationships part initially, i just was curious about the drinking. i think a lot of you are chasing, i don't know the term for it, but this kind of idea that people can ever "get back to normal", when really there isn't any such thing. i was once a young twenty something, and now i have 7 yrs of twisted baggage. i can't just become a normal divorced 28 yr old. i'm going to be the way i am for a large part. i have to find what fits with this, not try to become something else, something baseline, standard, "healthy", etc. because i don't see anybody really being any such thing anywhere along the way, at least not enough to call it "normal" or expect others to aspire to it, as if it can even be attained.
Because you think being fulfilled by yourself, healthy and independent is "standard" ? It is not. Legions of men are seeking their value in a woman, and almost everyone has tough times. Most try to cope with it without ever cleansing the wound and rant about them having a hard time for the rest of their lives, but there are the ones that actually see it has an obstacle in their live they must overcome, and after they feel it has make them stronger. You can easily see this around yourself. This is your opportunity to become stronger not weaker.
everybody i encounter is either innocent or broken, when it comes to things like this. everybody broken in their own ways. i don't mean this poetically, like emo, i mean, everybody's complicated, so spending time on "my own life"--like what? what's so interesting? playing sc? reading internet blogs? mountain climbing? i should pick up a bunch of hobbies like that, and then i can just walk up to women and be like, hey, i like rock climbing, and then ultimately i can start to have those things that people like to have? sorry, i care about people, not "activities" or "pasttimes"... is that too weird?
I won't ever ask you to do something specific. I'm telling you to do what you like. It can involves caring about people, if that is what you like, try to teach, get into an association idk. I really can't see how this doesn't apply to someone, unless he is so obsessed with one person he thinks this person is the purpose of his life... If you are in this scenario, you will have to find the way back yourself, or drown.
You focus what I say so much around you being attractive to women, yes this can happen, but that is absolutly not what this is about; your life is about yourself.
i mean, leisure should be to really better yourself, your life, etc. (it's the same thing). to exclude relationships with other people from that, to make them into two separate categories, is just nonsense. to say, i need to play soft hobbies so i can become a level 5 and then gain access to the hard hobbies tree, it's just absurd.
Yes i agree, leisure should be to really better yourself and your life. This is not what you are doing right now.
Of course you can include relationship in it, you can want a good relationship but this should enlighten your life, the ice on the cake, and not make your whole life. I was just suggesting you may want to avoid it for a time too (not forever), but this is up to your won feelings.
Good luck man, you need it.
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EPT
