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On November 03 2010 03:37 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 03:13 Fishball wrote:On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote: So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative? Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless. I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.
IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit. His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume. I honestly think the mods could have easily overlooked this situation. Yesterday, I actually had to convince Artanis to make an announcement of an additional circle member, and explain the consequences if we don't. Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows. This is assuming his role is legit. IMO townie is a lot more fun to be than a blue...
Well, you're one of those people then. But hey look, someone that would actually consider playing a Townie than a blue role! This COULD be a trad... nevermind.
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On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote: But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it. You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless. I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper.
We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right?
So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it.
So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role.
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On November 03 2010 03:39 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 03:34 L wrote: I've been mentioning this could be a mistake the entire time. It is not, however, a tradeoff at all unless there's another hidden piece of the puzzle.
Like the doctor also being a mason, perhaps. The doctor could be bulletproof, making the knowledge a bit more trivial for mafia. Then a mafia team would need to somehow get the town to lynch the doctor. I doubt the added piece of information is another value added aspect to the doctor given the roles that've flipped thusfar. Additionally, if cube isn't lying about protting himself, he's essentially semi-bullet proof anyways.
Anyways, time to go play Lol.
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Hams. For. Fists.
Doc H isn't red. You're causing chaos by saying he is. Doc H is red. You're causing chaos by saying he is
In either case you're gunning for the towns leadership, ie. creating chaos.
On November 03 2010 01:36 Glasse wrote:
Do you not understand that saying anything on there, which would only be my opinion on stuff, instead of just posting it is not different? There's no reason for me to hide shit in the message at all since most it can do is confuse and harm the town, while saying my opinion, which i can say in a post. Mafia obviously knows who mafia is so trying to confuse them is completely useless as i can't even confirm anyone's role to try to make them focus on useless people instead of medics and other important roles.
There's a lot of problems with this. You had an extremely important and powerful role. You were the only player in the game who could implant an idea into the other players consciousness anonymously, and from the mouth of an admin. You obviously don't see the tremendous value in this ability.
You can't confirm anyones role? You seem fairly certain Doc H is mafia. You've directly contradicted yourself.
You've already attempted to confuse and harm the town by suggesting their elected leader is scum.
On November 03 2010 01:36 Glasse wrote: If pms were allowed in this game i would not have sent that first radio message, as i could have used it to announce stuff we found behind the scene in a group. Now i can just say it out loud, since its the only thing i can fucking do.
Theres no point to my role in this mafia game since pms are not allowed.
Again, you had the most powerful role in communicating to the town. You threw it away. Am I saying you're scum? No. Am I more suspicious of you than I was? Yes. Do you have hams for fists? Most definitely.
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On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote: But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it. You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless. I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role.
First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts.
Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion.
So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos.
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An Analysis of Dr. H: or Wtf Why Must You Post So Much
Summary: Dr. H has lied, deceived, and misled the town. If anyone really wants to, I can go on, but just by seeing the first couple hundred posts it should be obvious how scummy Dr. H is. In addition, just noting right now, the fact that there are bandwagons going on which I believe have been started by mafia to hide the fact that Dr. H screwed up hard. Dr. H has lied about his role, given false facts, contradicted himself countless times, and wasted by 2000th post.
Basically, we can see some main thing which indicate he's scum. 1. He's lied about his role, and aspects regarding it For example, we see he constantly has said things about his role which obviously he now says he cannot do. For instance: + Show Spoiler +On October 30 2010 04:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 04:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:26 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 30 2010 04:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:01 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have. having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure. if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple. we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle. now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia playersneutral circle 6 town aligned playersneutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia playersfrom a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue. that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him. How do you identify the one mafia player in a group of 6? You're ignoring the odds in this scenario. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm still not cool with role claiming. It's going to create headaches to sift through countless and infinite role possibilities. It will clutter this thread with nonsense finger-pointing. If anything claiming to Fishball is safer, so then he can direct actions. The town as a whole doesn't need to know what everyone's roles are. Only Fishball needs to know, which then I would see a valid reason for Fishball to take the mayor position. This doesn't "confirm" Fishball, but we would then have to take the risk of electing a possible mafioso. We will know if things aren't looking right by Day 3/4 anyway. ANd as someone already said, Fishball has something we can trace back. He is now accountable for the actions of this "PM Group," if one exists. I need more convincing before I throw a vote on him though. i'm not cool with roleclaiming either, but people in this group should come out. it is otherwise too easy for fishball to lie about this. if we know who is in the circle, we know who has out of game information, we know who to keep an eye on as town. if there are mafia in that circle they will have to play twice as good as they would normally have to play. if the whole circle is mafia, faking it to save fishball, we will likely dominate them and win the game easily do you get where I'm going with this? even if there is only 1 mafia in the circle, we at least confirm there is a circle with townies in it and that is useful information for us. it's not necessarily about finding and killing mafia (it would be lovely, in fact i hope it's all a mafia lie), but it's a win/win scenario for town no matter what happens. Dr.H, I don't understand you. You were in full support of Fishball, because the opportunities that can arise from this alleged circle are great. Even in this post, you are supporting the possibilities of the usefulness of this circle. But then you change your vote to Pandain? Why? Right now, I feel like Fishball is a good candidate. I think the benefits of having him in the circle could very well outweigh the negatives of having a Mayor who can talk in private. However, I will not give him my vote until someone else from the circle steps forward. because mayor can't be rolechecked thats why im not voting for fishball but i can further confirm the possibility that he is town in the night (my role is sorta complex and im just figuring out all of its applications) and i'm considering changing back and putting more pressure on the pandainwagon Alright. Stop here. Look at the bolded quote. He says he can confirm someone is town, yet from what he claims now his role cannot do that at all.
On October 30 2010 04:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i remembered incorrectly about youngminii
he bandwagoned fishball NOT bumatlarge
this makes more sense, why would a scumbuddy come to the fake rescue of someone who isn't scum. that gives me more to think about. I'd really really really like a DT to rolecheck fishball. I can only kinda determine whether they may or may not be town and even then it ends up in a bit of a WIFOM situation.
the reason i feel weird about pandain is because his election reminds me a lot of the time when i was elected as scum mayor in my first mafia game and the way its going is very similar to that.
i wish there were more than 2 legitimate candidates that both come off as suspicious to me.
now that youngminii was voting for fishball, I'm less sure. I know youngminii in haunted mafia when he was vampire, he was a smart guy and always explained what he said in vampire chat. he's not the kind who would just say meaningless bullshit if he was town imo Back tracks on his statement he can confirm if he's town, but still says he can, in some way. Dr. H, this is very suscipcious. On October 30 2010 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: my power is actually really simple but the applications of it are complex and I'm finding them out as I think and play more
at first i was like "wtf am i gonna do with this power it sucks" Couldn't you just ask artanis.... On October 30 2010 05:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:58 Aeres wrote:On October 30 2010 04:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:52 Aeres wrote:On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.) Whoashit, this changes EVERYTHING. I'm very curious as to what you mean by not needing a Plague Doctor... some sort of immunity to Murrayitis? Or perhaps you're Mafia, and your role is to spread the virus... On the other hand, your posts so far do point you out as a townie, and your experience in past games does lend you the sort of aura of command I think a Mayor needs. I'll ponder this some more. i will tell everyone exactly what my role is and what it does and then I will confirm my role to someone who has been rolechecked who can then confirm it in the thread that's all very confusing but basically as soon as I am elected I will prove I am not mafia or you can lynch me. How are you going to find and recruit a Detective role, and convince him to cooperate? I mean, we're all pretty much in the dark here, so unless a Detective acts of his own accord, I don't see how you'd find one to help, short of being in Fishball's circle (assuming it exists at all). On October 30 2010 04:55 annul wrote: i havent thought of who i would lynch because there hasnt been any traction for my candidacy yet
but i think mayor candidates shouldnt reveal this anyway because if they would go after a mafia, it may incentivize other mafia to vote against them or to not vote for them when they otherwise would I admit, I didn't think of this. Good point, Annul. I won't press the issue any further. This is true. But I can confirm that I am the role I say I am. The only problem is confirming it to the right person. Alright, but you've already said wrong things about what you say your role is, and so far we don't know if you can even really confirm your role. On October 30 2010 07:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: there is a second way i can confirm my role
if i somehow miss my confirmation, i can confirm it indirectly as well. and i will always get a second chance the next night to directly confirm it. AND WHAT THE FRICK IS THIS WAY? I want this answered now, Dr. HOn October 30 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote: DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night. here is my basic plan for organization: 1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am. 2. that player confirms to the town my role 3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle 4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now. There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up. Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying. I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night. Points out that his plan could fail if one of these happen, but say they're very unlikely. Yet now he's bringing it up as defense. Also, I thought he said his role can confirm another players role, didn't I point that out? On October 30 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:08 Coagulation wrote: How do we know the person who is "verifying" your confirmation of your role isnt just a Scumbuddy of yours? well they would be ideal for a rolecheck this would be incredibly dangerous play as mafia to out my scumbuddies as the game progresses. every time i confirm to someone i will be claiming it. it is possible the person i can confirm to is a mafia, i have no way of knowing someones alignment. but look at this play from the perspective of me being mafia and it really makes no sense. I'm going to out all of my mafia compatriots just to win the mayor position? you'll see very soon that the information I'm providing will be beneficial to the town and we'll see real results in numbers. I'm putting my head on a plate for you guys if I turn out to be a liar. I can back this up. Notice a trend that Dr. H is doing. He claims he can be confirmed, leaves an out, yet the fact remains that he's constantly saying that he's almost certainly going to be confirmed, that he even laters says he is 100% confirmed, and even uses the old "trust me, If I'm lying lynch me." Yet we've now caught him as lying, and what do people do? They hop on another bandwagon! On October 30 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:10 Coagulation wrote: Maybe Godfather Will verify so no one can DT check him properly thats possible right? of course it's possible but look at this play in the terms of the game overall. think for a minute that I am mafia. I would essentially be outing my entire team to the town over the course of the game. Wrong if your lying about your role/do not have the role at all. And we've already pointed out you've lied about your role.... On October 30 2010 07:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:10 Node wrote: DrH, you forgot another scenario in which the first step would fail. If you're mafia, you could just ask a buddy, or hell, the Godfather (presuming he exists) to confirm your role. He posts and the townies are none the wiser. The mafia gets inducted into every circle there is and is put in a position of power.
I'm not sold, yet. there are other things to my power that will prove beyond any doubt that I am a pro-town player. they may not take affect immediately but everything will be quite clear when I am elected and roleclaim Which is.....? Back up your claims, dr. h On October 30 2010 07:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote: Well, I see it this way. Dr.H has no reason to give us the names of another Mafia member just to get the Mayor position. I mean, sure, it's a nice position, but worth losing teammates over? Not sure...
There aren't 22 scum like there were in Haunted, there are many fewer (I forget exactly how many). This means that every time a mafia member dies, it is a bigger hit this game.
I hope there wouldn't be more than one shape-shifting role in the mafia.
One question though: Does the Godfather get chosen Day1 or Night1?
If Godfather gets chosen Night1, then Dr.H couldn't possibly be shapeshifting now. Also, since he is roleclaiming immediately after being elected, it wouldn't give the Mafia enough time to have a Godfather, so even if he's Mafia, the person he would be claiming to wouldn't be shapeshifting yet. Or something to that effect... Godfather would be chosen on the first day I believe I have a small chance of confirming myself to a mafia. Mafia can then come out, get rolechecked, and sacrifice themselves to kill me So in the freak scenario that this happens I would plead town to wait a day before lynching me. Not to mention it could be the miller as well. There are other things to my role that will confirm me as town but I want to make a disclaimer, I have no way of knowing what other players roles are (I certainly don't have DT powers) so I have as much chance as anyone of acting upon mafia. Since I really think it's obvious he's mafia, I'm just going to start going on that assumption,and why everything he does makes sense if he is mafia. Of course, I will still be pointing out errors and fallacies but time to set gear into overdrive. Alright, so now he says his role cannot tell what another person's role is, says there are other things that can confirm him(yet says nothing else besides the fact he claims he can confirm himself, yet hasn't.) On October 30 2010 08:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote: why would you vote for someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned?
If I'm not elected, I will likely be protected by a medic. I'm not that worried about dying tonight if I lose the election.
what is your reason not to vote for me, because I'll die if I'm not elected? my role is really only useful if it's known to the town anyway. the most useful ability is to confirm myself as town to other players, it's ideal that a player with this role would be mayor. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Why did we elect someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned. Unfortunately, we did leave out the possibility of a roleblocker, but again, the fact he should have been thinking about that and the fact we don't know the roles I'm suscipcious of the "Well, maybe there's a roleblocker" excuse. On October 30 2010 08:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:14 Ace wrote: Where did I tell you how to use your role? If I did that isn't my intention. I really don't care about your role, I'm more interested in your ability as a scum hunter. So far you haven't shown the ability to think beyond 1 step of a plan so you don't seem worth it as a Mayoral candidate. What makes you think I haven't planned out how to use my role throughout the game?You're telling me to stay quiet and then come out tomorrow with what needs to be said. I'm offering coordination to the town with guaranteed protection. If you don't think thats better than what pandain is offering (nothing) then I don't really know what to say. What lack of foresight? My plans are long-term plans on how I will use my role to benefit the town. The first step is confirming my identity, the second step is using my powers to coordinate the town in a way that is crucial to our survival and victory. I've put the finger of suspicion on more players than you. Coagulation, youngminii, you haven't really done much in the way of scumhunting either. Mind telling me who you think is scum, if anybody? While scumhunting is important to me, being mayor will without a doubt maximize the effectiveness of my role and give the town coordination it needs in this game. It's pretty simple. Well for one, just seeing what happened tonight makes me think if you are town you didn't think everything through. And I'm still confused on how being mayor maximizes your effectiveness if your town, I mean, you can still do everything the same. Basically, you can confirm yourself as town, and that's it. But even that is in question. On October 30 2010 09:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:53 Divinek wrote:On October 30 2010 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment. I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise. I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability. Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone. I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts. Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked. Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen) If I were mafia using mafia to fake my confirmation ability. This means I have to consistently out scumbuddies for the entirety of the game just to stay alive. And for what? Immunity to nightkills that won't happen since I'd be mafia in the first place? Mafia benefit from being mayor isn't big enough in a normal game to do a play like this, much less in a game like this where the mayors power is severely reduced. What am I offering beyond my role? Simply put the town can trust me. I've put myself in a do or die situation and I'm more than prepared to back up what I'm offering. I can offer immense coordination that is OPEN to the town. I won't jump on poor mafia bandwagons. I'm not running on the basis of being a mayor that will do whatever the town (i.e mafia) tells him to do. I'll try my best to cut through the bullshit and use my votes the right way. So, now we know you were lying about the second way to confirm yourself. And how could you confirm another player. There are so many things you've claimed about your role which now are being pushed aside. And now your saying mafia doesn't have anything to gain from trying to get mayor when previously you said it's valuable.
2.He contradicts himself/lies.
There are numerous examples of him either backtracking on stuff or just lying/misleading. Note many times he tries to lie/mislead/deceive, and if called out on it he will back down. Yet if no one does, he continues driving it home, embellishing it further and further and trying to establish it as fact. Even without taking into account the time's he's lied/contradicted himself on his role let's see some posts by him:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2010 07:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 07:43 CubEdIn wrote: And what happens if we elect a mayor and he's mafia?
See, I only played haunted before, so I'm only getting used to the basics, but this one seems pretty crazy, so what guarantee is that we elect a good mayor with little to no information about him/her?
Also, do we know of anyone who is definitely blue? having a mafia as mayor is a blessing and curse for the mafia the extra vote power (which im guessing mayor has in this game) is super useful late game but mayor also has a lot of extra scrutiny on him which means he has to play very well. First real post this game. Right off the bat I notice this is different from what he's saying now, which is mayor is not useful for mafia and they wouldn't want to have it. Contradiction is noted, but opinions can change. Moving on... On October 29 2010 14:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lying can be advantageous if you're town
as long as you do it smartly Yet now he accuses Aeres? Despite the fact Aeres actually was pretty smart in what he did? wtf is this. On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: even if fishball isn't elected, we should go through with my gambit
that is if no one else from the circle claims at the end of the day, we lynch fishball. everyone who claims gets rolechecked to make sure it isn't a big mafia trick.
if it is a big mafia trick: we win the game, easy as that.
if the mafia ditch fishball: first day mafia kill, woo!
the only troubling scenario is where only the few mafia in the group come forward or say, the mafia in the group get rolechecked first, then we start killing the townies in the circle.
I think maybe electing Fishball might be a bad idea since he is then unable to be rolechecked. Mafia doesn't want to kill people in the circle, since if they are in it, they want to manipulate the information as much as possible.
also I suggest a plague doctor does not visit the mayor tonight. that is for reasons I can not tell you.
I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player Very anti town as well. First of all, he says we should check everyone who claims, when we would only have to check one. If it's mafia, then we know it's a lie/ we can check another person who claims. If not, THEN we lynch Fishball. But if we reveal a town, then we can stop, as he would be telling the truth. I don't see why Dr. H would be saying we should do this. And also his reason of not electing fishball: "he's unable to be rolechecked." Isn't that true for everyone? Finally he says he suggests a PD not visit mayor. Why is this, dr. H? Also, he has started to say in here he is wary of me because of a supposed bandwagon on me. Sadly, I did not look into this enough. Let's analyze the facts: 1.He claims there is a bandwagon on me. This implies two things: 1.There is a group of people who just bandwagoned on voting me. 2. They give little to no reasonBoth of these are outright lies. Like 5 people voted for me OVER THE COURSE OF 18 HOURS OR SO. And dr. H even voted for me! Finally, he claims they gave no reasons. Hmm... let's look at these posts coagmeepaknode also but I lost the exact link. -,-. So 3/5 gave at the very least a decent reason. So basically he accused me based on the fact two people didn't explain their votes fully enough. Can't believe I didn't notice this... On October 30 2010 08:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote: Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on. yet he has a huge bandwagon you are really intent on making me look bad in this game aren't you. too bad you have no good reasons for it Again says I have a huge bandwagon, when I do not. Also coag has been bringing up good points on dr. h. On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.) So, your running for mayor because your "clearly town aligned"(hmm... look at this post so far). You say your a huge target from mafia, yet also say so is fishball, and both of you would have to be rolechecked(actually can't -.-). So you really have no reasons other than you would later reveal you can be confirmed, but that's in high question right now. On October 30 2010 06:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:14 Pandain wrote:On October 30 2010 06:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: actually it's pretty bad for town to have fewer candidates Its even worse when several blues run claiming they are important..... since that means they're either mafia or going to get sniped off. everyone is a blue in this game lol i'm the only candidate aside from node who is claiming to offer 100% proof that I am not mafia when I'm elected, just saying you have offered nothing yet have a huge bandwagon behind you for whatever reason 1.No bandwagon. And 2 people not explaining enough is not a "huge bandwagon." 2.Yeah, 'bout that 100% proof. On October 30 2010 07:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:27 Coagulation wrote: DocH You basically said YOU WILL PROVE your town and then basically said "MAYBE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS I WILL PROVE IT IM NOT SURE"
I dont think pandain would be the greatest mayor However i would rather pandain then Annul and his manipulation if he is RED and i would rather pandain then fishbowl and his "EXTREMELY SHY?? circle" I would really really like for you to make me feel comfortable voting for you for mayor. but your doing a bad job so far.
let me put it this way there is a 1/39 chance i will fail in confirming my role to the town there are multiple ways i can prove my identity over the course of the day. so you would rather vote pandain who offers nothing? you're doing a bad job at discrediting me. considering that mafia are probably shitting their pants over the idea of a confirmed townie with great coordination powers become immune to nightkills I'm not surprised someone is trying their best FoS And these other ways of confirming your self are? And I did offer stuff, I just don't outright claim it because there's a good chance I wouldn't be elected, and I don't want mafia to have any more information about me than neccesary. On October 30 2010 07:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:17 NB wrote: people are moving too fast, im having a hard time to catch up your conversation T_T poor excuse, i know your play. you watch the thread very intently while communicating avidly within a scumcircle why even mention it? feeling guilty about your inactivity or do you just like to clutter up threads for no reason baseless assumption On October 30 2010 07:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:29 Coagulation wrote: FISHBOWL =FISHBALL Sorry. Wheres This guys circle at?? wouldnt they claim by now?? there are a lot of inactive players right now calm yourself What about NB, then? On October 30 2010 08:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:46 kitaman27 wrote:On October 30 2010 08:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 08:42 LunarDestiny wrote: when you quote, please quote the time too.
Those two posts have a big time difference between them. but that wouldn't make me look scummy so what's the point right? Four hour difference. Not exactly way way back if you ask me. I'm just pointing out that you say there is no reason someone should vote Pandain, yet hours earlier you voted Pandain and gave a reason. which i then discarded as bad when i changed my mind 4 hours is a lot of time in this game. I voted for Pandain because I felt wary about Fishball and at the time there was really no other viable candidate, since I thought bumatlarge was out of the race. If I didn't think that I would have gladly voted for bum instead. I decided then the best thing to do would be to run myself and have since grown increasingly more suspicious of pandain based on the actions of his supporters who have thus far given little to no reason to vote for him 1.No person voted for me again after you did, meaning that couldn't have changed your mind there. 2.You say I'm a viable canidate, yet now say I offer nothing. On October 30 2010 08:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end! you really think i could be mafia? do you understand how outrageously fucking stupid I would be to play like this as mafia? not only would i have to consistently out my scumbuddies throughout the course of the game to the entire town but I would have to fake a beneficial blue role that I promised already shows real numerical results that cannot be faked I am tying the noose around my neck to be hanged if I am lying. How can you call me a shitty towny if I've never been a towny and you don't even suspect I'm townie in this game. Hilarious post. Every time he says to lynch him if he's lying just makes me cringe. Because now we're at an impasse where he can just continously say "just wait one more night" while he leads us around bandwagoning people who I think are innocent. On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor. Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me. Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that? *cringes* On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:21 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:11 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit. specifically this Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? ' I responded to the bolded already. I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain. It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead On October 30 2010 09:13 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor. Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me. Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that? Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo. So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill? 1.) That wasn't being used as a point against you. I was talking about you, Fishball and Pandain as the remaining candidates who didn't have my vote. Nothing to do with bumatlarge. 2.) If you're Scum, get Mayor, lynch someone - how do you die? I don't know what roles are in the game and neither does anyone else. The name of the game is INSANE Mafia. Maybe you're scum with a role that can do something and look Pro-Town? I don't know and honestly, even if I did know the roles in the game that doesn't mean I'm going to take you at your word. There have been plenty of games where Scum says they promise to do something, like oh kill themselves and then WALLA! Something else happens, the Scum spin it to show that there is a better idea and the Scummy Martyr goes free. I'm not in the business on playing for promises. I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia. Would you prefer I simply roleclaim now? Please, can we finally make him stand up to his word? I've called him out so many time's he's contradicted himself, lied, or greatly misled.
3. Has played anti town.
He has continously played as if scum, leading town by his own hands. He claims to have lynched YM, then sinq is lynched, and he defends YM. He claims to be able to be 100% confirmed, yet now there is no way of knowing whether he is town or not and now he claims he knew he wouldn't be, but he was lying/not telling "for the good of town." I'm sorry, soaking up a POTENTIAL ROLEBLOCKER WHICH MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST is not a good reason to run on a campaign. Dr. H. He has fished, given poor reasoning, and I'm sure I would find more evidence but believe I have found enough in his first 100-200 posts. If anyone really isn't convinced, I will submit more evidence, albeit relunctantly. Let's see:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2010 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: im assuming mayor has bodyguards
mayor should be an experienced player since mafia will try to hit experienced players first. Yes they will. I like and don't like this post at the same time. On one side, he's neglecting a very important and perhaps the most important aspect of being mayor: being protected as long as you have a bodyguard, which is really useful for important blue roles. On the other hand, it is a good point to protect expierenced players, albeit I am obviously cautious since he later ran for mayor. Part of my conspiracy portion of the brain thinks he was just setting up for him claiming, but that cannot be proven one way or the other. Next On October 29 2010 09:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: don't vote for jcarlsoniv he's inexperienced and mostly inactive, not good
orgolove is bad and shouldn't be mayor either
mayor should be an experienced player so we have an experienced player that is protected. medics should also protect our most experienced/best players (ace, bumatlarge, brownbear, infundibulum, etc.)
i'm voting for bumatlarge since he's the best one running currently
Onoes more conspiracy in mah brain. I agree Jcarl shouldn't be mayor for those reasons, for orgolove he doesn't really give any explanations so that makes me cautious....(but perhaps true, I don't want to be mean :p). Again says we should protect expierenced players. I'm going to note this, he's basically saying perhaps the most important aspect of mayor that should function in this town is in its aspect to help expierenced players. This is true, albeit I'm unsure of whether that should be the most important. It seems logical to me that mafia would shoot an inexpierenced Mafia-revealer(best role ever) vs. an expierenced townie. On October 30 2010 04:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:14 kitaman27 wrote: Hey all, sorry I'm late. Just got off my flight from Liquidvania. You wouldn't believe the lines. People must be dying to get out of there (sorry I couldn't resist.)
I haven't decided who to vote for as Mayor yet, but I do have two requests.
First off, I would like to see an additional person claim from this "secret 6 person circle". If it exists, odds are incredibly likely that a mafia member is one of the members. If that's the case, then the mafia already knows the identities of all six members. So what harm is there to come forth to the town identifying yourself?
Secondly, I would like to hear how the Mayor plans to use their first day lynch. Will it be based on the majority opinion of the town, a suspicious set of posts during the first 48 hours, or a power player you are intimidated by? Do you already have an idea of who you want to use it on? In order for a candidate to receive my vote, I require they address this issue.
Good luck all ^_^ not just an additional person, everyone in the circle should claim. mafia doesn't have incentive to kill them for it so it's all good. NO! BAD! This is a very anti town move. Pms were, and even with 3 of Fishball's member's dying, are one of the greatest things town has right now. Why? Town circle, obviously. Telling everyone to claim just allows mafia to snipe people off, while giving town really no useful info when just one person claiming would have the same result. this is very suscipcious. On October 30 2010 05:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:59 annul wrote: fyi i will reveal my role too when i get elected, dont let drh use this as a point when ive been saying this too all game why are you attacking me? i never said i'm the only person revealing my role, but can you use it to prove that you are a town player? what are you offering aside from that? i'm pretty sure everyone running is gonna roleclaim when they are elected. why bother to try and make me look bad? why not just say "i'm gonna roleclaim too", why even bring me up? First off, annul hardly even attacked you. Quick defense there. Second off, he himself is rolefishing there "what are you offering aside from that." Very poor play in that regards. On October 30 2010 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: people in fishballs circle need to claim already
person, yes. People, no. On October 30 2010 09:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:20 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 08:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
Actually, from a sense, I do need the Mayor role to scum hunt "within my small group", especially after I've decided to come out, there is no turning back. It will all make sense when you know my role. Is medic protection not enough? If you are killed then wouldn't that increase suspicion on certain members of the group within the group itself? Do you know the names of other players in the group and if so can you say who they are since they won't claim themselves? Otherwise there is really no reliable way to confirm your town alignment other than a DT check. Fishes for town circle, trying to find it out. Why would town do this, it would only reveal to the mafia a town circle so they can snipe it. Yet Dr. H is trying to get him to reveal the list. On October 30 2010 09:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote: As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.
If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.
Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.
I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.
PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know. As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle. Very bad reasoning. Mafia couldn't incriminate themselves since we wouln't know who killed them.
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On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote: But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it. You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless. I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction.
What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you.
And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you.
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i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD
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On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote: i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD
I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h.
Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective.
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On November 03 2010 04:39 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote: But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it. You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless. I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction. What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you. And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you.
Yeah, I was thinking that you might vote and try to start a bandwagon shortly after I posted that.
You stated my role doesn't make sense. I begged to differ, other players did as well, and that's when you started to theorize. Not just once, but you came up with many different reasons why I would be lying, all of which are based on roles that exists in your mind alone, as far as we know. That's where the wild theories are. Please remember this, your logic and where it came from, when my role will be revealed (either by death, end of game etc.). If nothing else sticks to you from this game, then let it just be this: You'd rather make up a whole imaginary scenario in your mind, and rely your game-plan on that, rather than give someone the benefit of a doubt.
Back to Pan's post, it really made me think. Apart from the Dr.H accusation, which I'm not going to comment on just yet, you got me thinking.
You said that if everyone were to role-claim, mafia would just start sniping people. Which is partly true, of course, but it got me thinking: As I said before, the town has only numbers going for it. No clues, no PMs, no nothing. How will important blues make their decisions? Based on what? If there's no organization at all, there's no way that the randomness of individuals will overcome the organized efforts of x people who are Mafia.
They might as well start offing people alphabetically, since there's basically no chance of the town uncovering ALL of them judging by the way the game has been going.
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No, remember, we got fishball's circie. And Bumatlarge's pm thingamabobber. In fact, these two people are highly critical to the town right now, and I would suggest you protecting them.
+ Show Spoiler +But of course, Dr. H pushes for fishball's circle to all reveal themselves, and claims to be highly suscipcious of Bum. Just more evidence...
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On November 03 2010 04:47 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote: i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h. Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective.
While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc.
He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree?
It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name?
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You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it. Is the inconsistency where Aeres says he hopes that DC isn't the body guard? This makes sense, he assumes DC soft claimed (so did a lot of other people) so he decides to fake claim to draw a hit. Then he says he hopes DC wasn't the body guard after all and that the real second body guard is hidden. This makes sense, under his false claim he's trying to trick the mafia further by adding a third person into the body guard mix. This all made sense from his perspective when I try and put myself in his shoes it seems like a logical strategy.
Regarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynch: we need to look at Doc H.
If YM is blue or Aeres is red then I'm completely lost
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ClarifyingRegarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynchwhere he flips scum: we need to look at Doc H.
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On November 03 2010 04:51 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:47 Pandain wrote:On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote: i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h. Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective. While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc. He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree? It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name? 1.If there is a roleblocker, they'll just keep on roleblocking him. 2.If there's not(or if he is mafia), then he can just continue to claim he is/claim the other person is lying. He's claimed like, two different things that he says his role can do, but says they can't now. And I also disagree that just because he's mayor we shouldn't lynch him, on the contrary, mafia having two votes is a bane for the town.
On November 03 2010 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it. Is the inconsistency where Aeres says he hopes that DC isn't the body guard? This makes sense, he assumes DC soft claimed (so did a lot of other people) so he decides to fake claim to draw a hit. Then he says he hopes DC wasn't the body guard after all and that the real second body guard is hidden. This makes sense, under his false claim he's trying to trick the mafia further by adding a third person into the body guard mix. This all made sense from his perspective when I try and put myself in his shoes it seems like a logical strategy. Regarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynch: we need to look at Doc H. If YM is blue or Aeres is red then I'm completely lost
If, if, if IF! I don't see how everyone can be so oblivious to how transparent Dr. H has been. IF he's telling the truth, then he'll never be able to confirm it since mafia will keep roleblocking him. The only way we could get him to confirm is if mafia does not have roleblocker and Jcarl lied, but I find that highly unlikely.
And I disagree with Dr. H being lynched not telling us about other people. It gives us insight about YM and Aeres, and in addition we can't lynch YM(I'm pretty sure he has a role which means he can't be lynched.)
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On November 03 2010 05:12 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:51 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 04:47 Pandain wrote:On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote: i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h. Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective. While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc. He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree? It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name? 1.If there is a roleblocker, they'll just keep on roleblocking him. 2.If there's not(or if he is mafia), then he can just continue to claim he is/claim the other person is lying. He's claimed like, two different things that he says his role can do, but says they can't now. And I also disagree that just because he's mayor we shouldn't lynch him, on the contrary, mafia having two votes is a bane for the town. Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it. Is the inconsistency where Aeres says he hopes that DC isn't the body guard? This makes sense, he assumes DC soft claimed (so did a lot of other people) so he decides to fake claim to draw a hit. Then he says he hopes DC wasn't the body guard after all and that the real second body guard is hidden. This makes sense, under his false claim he's trying to trick the mafia further by adding a third person into the body guard mix. This all made sense from his perspective when I try and put myself in his shoes it seems like a logical strategy. Regarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynch: we need to look at Doc H. If YM is blue or Aeres is red then I'm completely lost If, if, if IF! I don't see how everyone can be so oblivious to how transparent Dr. H has been. IF he's telling the truth, then he'll never be able to confirm it since mafia will keep roleblocking him. The only way we could get him to confirm is if mafia does not have roleblocker and Jcarl lied, but I find that highly unlikely. And I disagree with Dr. H being lynched not telling us about other people. It gives us insight about YM and Aeres, and in addition we can't lynch YM(I'm pretty sure he has a role which means he can't be lynched.)
I know it doesn't apply to this game necessarily, but in other games you could not role-block the same person twice, correct? So this would be the night he COULD clear his name.
As for 2. You are correct, but he odds of him poking a Mafia are rather small, so if he does claim that said person is lying, then it would be his misfortune.
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Dr. H being lynched would definetly tell us about other people but I don't think it's wise to take such drastic action right now (even with all the "ifs"). I'm willing to give him one more chance to prove himself. As for YM having an unlynchable role, that would be rather imbalanced. If he's mafia it means we have to use a vigi hit on him and that's assuming we have a vigi.
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Pandain I never ever changed what I said my role could do. I don't know what you're talking about but just from scanning over your post I can tell it's all bullshit. I'll get into specifics in a moment.
I would like to point out that some people are not voting for Aeres "JUST BECAUSE HE LIED" and that I showed where the myth that his "plan was protown" arised because I trapped him in his lie without really realizing it. I think Aeres is not only a liar, I think he is scum.
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Also it's very scummy to say "lets vote this person to get the most information"
Mafia draw up fake allegiances/alliances in the game then say "hey lets kill one of these people cuz it'll tell us SOOOO much about theothers" when in reality it's just a lot of WIFOM smoke and mirrors
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On November 03 2010 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Pandain I never ever changed what I said my role could do. I don't know what you're talking about but just from scanning over your post I can tell it's all bullshit. I'll get into specifics in a moment.
I would like to point out that some people are not voting for Aeres "JUST BECAUSE HE LIED" and that I showed where the myth that his "plan was protown" arised because I trapped him in his lie without really realizing it. I think Aeres is not only a liar, I think he is scum.
You see, I have no problem with this. I think you are wrong, but at least you are voting for Aeres for a good reason. I'm pissed off at the people who are voting just because of LAL or are sheeping.
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