EPT
Power Rank 03/01/2010 - Page 24
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Elroi
Sweden5562 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I think it is a good idea to wait for WL Finals to determine 2nd place. Light and JD seem to get closer and closer with every match so determining 2nd place by Light's performance there seems a good idea. Sea and Baby were catching up to them at a rapid pace so we might see a surprise. Curious to see what Plexa comes up with, this month is really tough. 1. Flash (no question whatsoever) 2-6 JD and Light, Stork, Sea and Baby 7-10 four of Zero, Kal, Kwanro, Fantasy, Free, Leta, Calm, dunno | ||
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Severedevil
United States4820 Posts
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
On April 02 2010 17:19 Fenrax wrote: A bit Terran dominance is undenoable, but Mind and Really? Not. Also Leta hasn't done anything recently except for having a good day against KT. Flash, Light, Baby and Sea for sure, though and maybe Fantasy. I think it is a good idea to wait for WL Finals to determine 2nd place. Light and JD seem to get closer and closer with every match so determining 2nd place by Light's performance there seems a good idea. Sea and Baby were catching up to them at a rapid pace so we might see a surprise. Curious to see what Plexa comes up with, this month is really tough. 1. Flash (no question whatsoever) 2-6 JD and Light, Stork, Sea and Baby 7-10 four of Zero, Kal, Kwanro, Fantasy, Free, Leta, Calm, dunno stork and jaedong didnt have an excellent march, i would expect them to drop to 7-10. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
On April 02 2010 21:18 saltywet wrote: stork and jaedong didnt have an excellent march, i would expect them to drop to 7-10. Stork will drop, or rather other players will pass him that I can understand but Jaedong? Jaedong went 11-6, advanced in the MSL, allkilled Hite, and the weight of recently winning the MSL still accounts for something (kind of) so why would Jaedong drop down all the way to 7? Which players would you put above Jaedong? 7th is way to harsh. I'm a Jaedong fan I can kind of understand it if he dropped a spot or two, but come on...7th? Really? | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On April 02 2010 17:19 Fenrax wrote: A bit Terran dominance is undenoable, but Mind and Really? Not. Also Leta hasn't done anything recently except for having a good day against KT. Flash, Light, Baby and Sea for sure, though and maybe Fantasy. I think it is a good idea to wait for WL Finals to determine 2nd place. Light and JD seem to get closer and closer with every match so determining 2nd place by Light's performance there seems a good idea. Sea and Baby were catching up to them at a rapid pace so we might see a surprise. Curious to see what Plexa comes up with, this month is really tough. 1. Flash (no question whatsoever) 2-6 JD and Light, Stork, Sea and Baby 7-10 four of Zero, Kal, Kwanro, Fantasy, Free, Leta, Calm, dunno I think you're placing baby up there too high. Traditionally players that start getting hot but are not yet ranked are "worked in" by generally being put in the 7-10 slots. Kal, imo, has been performing way better than stork and (it hurts me to say this) sea, and baby (even though he beat DAS DONG twice). | ||
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7mk
Germany10156 Posts
On April 02 2010 00:28 Redshirt wrote: People drop random games. Flash lost to M18M and Hyun, both players he shouldn't be losing to. Well you can turn that around and say. People drop random games, Stork and Jaedong lost to baby, someone they shouldnt be losing to. What other S-class player has baby beaten in his entire career? The answer is noone. (OK I guess light, once) Now he's definitely become a force to reckon with but it's definitely too early for a rank like #2 just because he's running pretty hot atm. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On April 02 2010 22:08 7mk wrote: Well you can turn that around and say. People drop random games, Stork and Jaedong lost to baby, someone they shouldnt be losing to. What other S-class player has baby beaten in his entire career? The answer is noone. (OK I guess light, once) Now he's definitely become a force to reckon with but it's definitely too early for a rank like #2 just because he's running pretty hot atm. No you can't just turn that around and say that. Stork and Jaedong have been losing a small number of games where their gameplay has been less that stellar. I chose Flash on purpose to prove my point that losing a few badly played games against "average" players doesn't mean very much when pretty much every other game played by Flash, win or lose, displays his insane skill level. I never said Baby deserved #2 because I really don't care about how the power rank is ordered. But to simply say that Baby needs to prove himself in order to get a high ranking when he's played sick, sick games in general and pretty much manhandled Stork and Jaedong twice is just confusing to me. Seriously the "This player still needs to prove..." arguments are stupid (remember when everyone said Flash needed to prove his 10+ TvZ win streak where every single game was a rape?) - if he can't keep that level of play over time, just kick the player off the Power Rank. I thought the power rank was made to measure, and thus rank, the level of play presented by active progamers every month? Baby is still in both individual leagues by going 2-0 in MSL Ro32, going 4-1 in the OSL Ro32, is currently 1-0 in the OSL Ro16, and has presented generally good skill in proleague this month and last month. What more does he have to prove? | ||
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7mk
Germany10156 Posts
On April 02 2010 23:21 Redshirt wrote: No you can't just turn that around and say that. Stork and Jaedong have been losing a small number of games where their gameplay has been less that stellar. I chose Flash on purpose to prove my point that losing a few badly played games against "average" players doesn't mean very much when every single other game you've played, no matter win or lose, has generally been nothing less than top class. I never said Baby deserved #2 because I really don't care about how the power rank is ordered. But to simply say that Baby needs to prove himself in order to get a high ranking when he's played sick, sick games in general and pretty much manhandled Stork and Jaedong twice is just confusing to me. Seriously the "This player still needs to prove..." arguments are stupid (remember when everyone said Flash needed to prove his TvZ streak?) - if he can't keep that level of play over time, just kick the player off the Power Rank. I thought the power rank was made to measure, and thus rank, the level of play presented by active progamers every month? Baby is still in both individual leagues by going 2-0 in MSL Ro32, going 4-1 in the OSL Ro32, is currently 1-0 in the OSL Ro16, and has presented generally good skill in proleague this month and last month. What more does he have to prove? Well your post was a direct answer disagreeing with someone who said "saying Baby deserves #2 is far-fetched"... I think flashs game vs M18M is not a good example because imho Flash didnt play bad, he got really really unlucky in that game. The way the power rank is made is a bit inconsistent tbh, sometimes they say its about whos the best player overall, sometimes its more about whos played the best in that one month. "manhandling" is a pretty weird word when Jaedong held on for so long despite being in a really bad position. And btw, id still put all my money on JD if they were to play another BO3 or a BO5, especially when JD doesnt just get released from the hospital recovering from an entiritis only to see his dead dog covered in blood (warning: dramatization) Also JD is on a 6 game winning streak vs Zerg and won 16/17 of his last matches vs P. Pretty good I would argue, I might even call that stellar.. and he carries a whole freakin team on his shoulders. I was never one of these idiots who said that Flash was so bad at TvZ, and how he didnt deserve to be considered a top3 player etc. etc., in fact I nerdraged pretty hard when people said stuff like that, plus its a completely entirely different situation. Flash, who had won an OSL, carried his entire team on his shoulders, was the #1 in most PL wins and had hundreds of games to show of his skill. compare this to baby... who just recently started winning some games, allkilled ace and then won 11/18 games... yes, he qualified for two individual leagues but its still stupid to say that he's a top 3 player now just because of that, its just not enough games.. think about Hyuk and his amazing streak, what happened after that? And what happened to Shine,who "manhandled" Stork and Bisu? If youre gonna give a comparison to prove your point, take someone where people said that he was bad but proved to be really good, you could actually take Flash and talk about the beginning of his career, well you could pretty much take most of the top players, Jaedong included, but to compare it to the Flash TvZ issue a short while ago makes me think you just couldnt come up with anything else cause you just have only been following starcraft for a very short time now. All of that being said, baby is obviously very young and chances are he's just gonna get better over time. | ||
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dani_caliKorea
730 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5676 Posts
On April 02 2010 23:21 Redshirt wrote: No you can't just turn that around and say that. Stork and Jaedong have been losing a small number of games where their gameplay has been less that stellar. I chose Flash on purpose to prove my point that losing a few badly played games against "average" players doesn't mean very much when pretty much every other game played by Flash, win or lose, displays his insane skill level. I never said Baby deserved #2 because I really don't care about how the power rank is ordered. But to simply say that Baby needs to prove himself in order to get a high ranking when he's played sick, sick games in general and pretty much manhandled Stork and Jaedong twice is just confusing to me. Seriously the "This player still needs to prove..." arguments are stupid (remember when everyone said Flash needed to prove his 10+ TvZ win streak where every single game was a rape?) - if he can't keep that level of play over time, just kick the player off the Power Rank. I thought the power rank was made to measure, and thus rank, the level of play presented by active progamers every month? Baby is still in both individual leagues by going 2-0 in MSL Ro32, going 4-1 in the OSL Ro32, is currently 1-0 in the OSL Ro16, and has presented generally good skill in proleague this month and last month. What more does he have to prove? Then we will see any random player that has a winning streak in the power rank and the PR will be like a rolercoaster . I was ready accept Light as # 2 because he was dominating PL , but then he lost to freaking perfectman in the OSL in a Bo3 . | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Redshirt
434 Posts
That's why I mentioned how stupid saying that Flash had to prove his TvZ streak since the start of 09/10 Proleague is when all of his wins were as solid as a brick wall. That's why I chose Flash to prove my point that losing to guys like Odin once or twice (assuming you're an active player) doesn't mean anything when 90% of the time you're destroying people left and right. Well played games are well played and its stupid to try and dismiss the quality of those games. *Off topic but Shine did kinda manhandle Bisu and Stork, who might I add has a long history of losing PvZs in the dumbest ways. He also had some cool guardian play against Skyhigh and Fantasy as well as played a few good ZvZs. That's why he got a decent place on the Power Rank IIRC. He couldn't maintain that performance and exposed himself as a player who has pretty generic ground army micro, awful macro, awful standard hive tech play and is actually pretty one dimentional. That's why he's off the Power Rank. Shame because I was hoping we'd get another Silver, who was pretty cool at times. On April 03 2010 00:54 raga4ka wrote: Then we will see any random player that has a winning streak in the power rank and the PR will be like a rolercoaster . I was ready accept Light as # 2 because he was dominating PL , but then he lost to freaking perfectman in the OSL in a Bo3 . Nothing wrong with that is there? ELO shows the relative skill levels of players in a numerical format. Kespa rank kind does a decent job showing how prominent a player is in the proscene over a period of time. Power Rank does what numbers can't do and has a person to highlight the top 10 performers in a single individual month. If you're not performing as well as everyone else (like Kwanro and maybe Zero), why should you be on the list? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4820 Posts
On April 03 2010 01:43 Redshirt wrote: That's why I mentioned how stupid saying that Flash had to prove his TvZ streak since the start of 09/10 Proleague is when all of his wins were as solid as a brick wall. That's why I chose Flash to prove my point that losing to guys like Odin once or twice (assuming you're an active player) doesn't mean anything when 90% of the time you're destroying people left and right. Well played games are well played and its stupid to try and dismiss the quality of those games. Flash had a long history of strong play, as well as an OSL. Baby does not. Baby is also not "90%" destroying people left and right. He won 61% of his games in March/April. His only claim to fame is he recently defeated Jaedong in three matches, and Stork in one. | ||
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7mk
Germany10156 Posts
I'm talking about how people should actually take into heavy consideration his achievements this month instead of pushing them aside and simply pointing out that he lost to Odin or that he hasn't "proved" himself whatever that means. He hasn't "proven" himself to be a top top player (again, talking about stuff like power rank#2 because thats what the guy you quoted was arguing about), not simply because he lost to Odin but because he simply hasnt achieved much.He beat Stork and Jaedong and is in both individual leagues... but hes certainly not the only one. Btw in the in-house ranking of wemade fox released 2 months ago he was just 5th with a 55% winning rate and lets face it wemade fox is not that strong atm. Shine's case exactly proves my point, that he simply did not deserve the credit he got just because he beat stork and bisu. He got 4th in Power Rank and was called "the deadliest ZvP sniper in pro gaming"... Oh and if you dont give a shit what the Power Rank order is and dont wanna discuss it at all then what on earth are you doing in this thread? On April 03 2010 03:11 Severedevil wrote: Flash had a long history of strong play, as well as an OSL. Baby does not. Baby is also not "90%" destroying people left and right. He won 61% of his games in March/April. His only claim to fame is he recently defeated Jaedong in three matches, and Stork in one. exactly | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On April 02 2010 15:15 TwoToneTerran wrote: This isn't about Elo? If you can't tell by watching their games that Really has way better TvP than Leta then I'm not sure what to say. Leta's TvZ is only better insomuch as Really's TvZ is just so unusually awful. They both got kicked out of the OSL by mediocre zergs, though (Hyvaa and 815, ick), so maybe it's closer than it looks between those two. Also Sea is much better in a lategame situation than Light (and much better at getting to a lategame situation) entirely because his sense is great. It's partly why his TvP is generally better and his TvT is arguably better, as those games are prone to getting to lategame. Aside from Flash, I don't think I've ever seen a Terran so efficient at clearing up expansions with the perfect number of troops. Obviously Really's TvP is better and even if this were about ELO, Really still wins that argument. But I'd like to point out how underrated Leta's TvP is. Everyone acts like he's trash in that MU but he's actually one of the stronger TvP players out there. OTOH, Leta blows Really away in both TvZ and TvT. Okay, so a subpar Zerg took down Leta, but if you can't look past a bad a single series then "I'm not sure what to say." Leta has a good history of prevailing over Zergs, with a few flops along the way. Really has a long history of failing against Zerg with a few successes along the way. I'm not sure where this "closer than it looks" business comes from. Get back to me when Really finally beats a decent Zerg in a bo3. For that matter, get in touch with me when even wins a bo3 in standard leagues. And Light's late game is fine. If anything, his lategame TvP play is stronger than his midgame TvP play so I have no idea why you're faulting his lategame for his inconsistency in that match-up. The only real fault in Light's game sense is that he's never really grasped how to have a strong TvP midgame. | ||
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Fx_
503 Posts
1.FlaSh 2.Jaedong 3.Light BaBy just on 7-10 place | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On April 02 2010 21:43 Jugan wrote: I think you're placing baby up there too high. Traditionally players that start getting hot but are not yet ranked are "worked in" by generally being put in the 7-10 slots. Kal, imo, has been performing way better than stork and (it hurts me to say this) sea, and baby (even though he beat DAS DONG twice). He was kinda ranked, he got a honorable mention for a "stellar month" in February. And that stellar month was followed by passing the MSL group by plowing through Hero and Jaedong and going 1-0 in OSL against non other than PvT monster Stork. He didn't only beat Stork there, he outplayed him, outmultitasked him and the only reason why the game was so close was because of a hidden base. So one stellar month was followed by another stellar month and so I think he deserves a place around 4 or 5. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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