Kingdom talks about Bisu's Slump - Page 7
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
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skronch
United States2717 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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years
Costa Rica216 Posts
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aznanimedude
United States199 Posts
On March 29 2010 20:28 oo_xerox wrote: Isnt flash style also very predictable? yeah play him and lose easy to predict :O | ||
koreasilver
9109 Posts
On March 30 2010 06:02 madcow305 wrote: I'm at a loss here: The commentators are saying Bisu is losing because he's playing it safe, while his newer, younger opponents are going for all-ins and succeed. How do you defend yourself from all-in cheese? By playing safe, right? Scouting thoroughly, making the proper amount of defense, and not cutting corners. So now, playing safe against all-in is BAD? What are you supposed to do to counter cheese then? By all conventional SC:BW theory, Bisu has the perfect idea: he's better than his opponents in raw skill and mechanics. The only way he'll lose is to some cheese that he isn't ready for. So, he plays super-safe, defends against the cheese, then moves to late game where his superior skill takes over. BUT, according to everyone in this thread and the commentators, aiming for a long-term macro game doesn't favor the player with better skill now? Playing safe as in extremely standard, and super standard builds are safe because they do not completely commit to anything. If you play like this every game then your opponents can exploit you with crafted all-in builds that are tempered to specifically work against what you do, or they can exploit you by playing greedier because they know you won't be able to do anything about it. In example, if a T goes 1rax fe every single TvZ, a Zerg can exploit it by going 3hatch before pool. If a Terran goes siege expand every single TvP, then a Protoss can go 12nexus. If a Zerg goes 12hatch 11pool every ZvT, then a Terran can go 14cc, etc. go.go took this to the extremes with his recent games against Bisu. Even though go.go's TvP is balls compared to Bisu's PvT skills, by the way go.go abused Bisu with his opening builds was gross. | ||
madcow305
United States152 Posts
On March 31 2010 02:54 koreasilver wrote: Playing safe as in extremely standard, and super standard builds are safe because they do not completely commit to anything. If you play like this every game then your opponents can exploit you with crafted all-in builds that are tempered to specifically work against what you do, or they can exploit you by playing greedier because they know you won't be able to do anything about it. In example, if a T goes 1rax fe every single TvZ, a Zerg can exploit it by going 3hatch before pool. If a Terran goes siege expand every single TvP, then a Protoss can go 12nexus. If a Zerg goes 12hatch 11pool every ZvT, then a Terran can go 14cc, etc. go.go took this to the extremes with his recent games against Bisu. Even though go.go's TvP is balls compared to Bisu's PvT skills, by the way go.go abused Bisu with his opening builds was gross. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, here's what you guys are saying: Even if you know you're more skilled and a better player than your opponent, you can't always hope to play safe and take it to the late game where your superior macro wins the game. Sometimes, even against opponents you know you're better than, you still have to go for cheesey, all-in builds, simply to keep your opponents honest. So, the answer to success is that sometimes Flash must play like Flash, and every once in a while he must play like Kwanro? Then, the answer to Bisu's slump is to just have him cheese more, in a random and unpredictable fashion, so people can't get a read on his build orders and design sniping BOs when him? Somehow, I doubt it's as simple as this. If it were, I'm sure someone on the SKT1 team would have figured it out by now. His coach could just order him to mix in proxy double gate in a game or two of proleague or the MSL/OSL. There must be some fundamental aspect to Bisu's play that is slipping, besides simply not using all-in build orders. | ||
darnoconrad
Canada110 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27097 Posts
On March 31 2010 10:02 madcow305 wrote: So, if I'm understanding this correctly, here's what you guys are saying: Even if you know you're more skilled and a better player than your opponent, you can't always hope to play safe and take it to the late game where your superior macro wins the game. Sometimes, even against opponents you know you're better than, you still have to go for cheesey, all-in builds, simply to keep your opponents honest. So, the answer to success is that sometimes Flash must play like Flash, and every once in a while he must play like Kwanro? Then, the answer to Bisu's slump is to just have him cheese more, in a random and unpredictable fashion, so people can't get a read on his build orders and design sniping BOs when him? Somehow, I doubt it's as simple as this. If it were, I'm sure someone on the SKT1 team would have figured it out by now. His coach could just order him to mix in proxy double gate in a game or two of proleague or the MSL/OSL. There must be some fundamental aspect to Bisu's play that is slipping, besides simply not using all-in build orders. You are seem to think that there are only safe builds and all-in or cheese builds, when there are actually many levels between the two. Bisu plays too safe, but that does not mean he isn't proxy gating. It just means that he will not cut probes for a timing attack, or skip a production cycle to get a fast third nexus. There are a lot of ways to play less safe without being all-in. | ||
baubo
China3370 Posts
I think the problem with Bisu playing safe is simply that he lacks the management to pull it off. He lacks Stork and Flash's impeccable late game decision-making and map awareness. So in that sense he stops playing to his strengths at times when he's playing safe. I would even say this about Jaedong, who I feel is at his best when he's on the offensive. Gotta use that APM advantage to your benefit. | ||
Kage
India788 Posts
Bisu start going risky! | ||
x11tman
Finland50 Posts
I love Bisu's playstyle though, it's exciting IMO. He's my favorite player for that reason and for his successful career. Even when he plays a predictable build, he or his opponent makes it exciting for me. I hope he starts owning again, it's his turn now that Flash has delivered what had been expected of him for some time. | ||
Tempest[OEC]
United States417 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 31 2010 01:55 skronch wrote: wow....kingdom has absolutely no reservations about completely ripping into bisu. it's funny to hear all these comments after bisu has been heralded for so long for being a revolutionist and creative in his build orders he was only revolutionist and creative for one set. that set against savior oh so long ago. but now, he's been rather...bland. | ||
Sabu113
United States11035 Posts
The ending was just lol. Thanks for the translation! ^_^ | ||
buickskylark
Canada664 Posts
it's not that bisu is losing because he plays safe, he could just as well lose if he were to take risks. | ||
Chen
United States6344 Posts
It's over. Bisu's entering savior mode ;__; | ||
konadora
Singapore66063 Posts
might wanna spoiler your post Chen | ||
Katsuge
Singapore7730 Posts
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lone_hydra
Canada1460 Posts
On April 08 2010 21:35 Katsuge wrote: Bisu b-team inc No! No! Noooooooo! Take your blaesphmy elsewhere demon! TT_TT Damn it Bisu, why you gotta do this? | ||
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