EPTTL Mafia 5 [Game Over] - Page 22
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
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inertinept
Bangladesh1195 Posts
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Icysoul
Canada254 Posts
Edit: I really think we shouldn't try that much trying to think of a invincible strategy. Not only does it require tremendous effort, many holes for misinterpretation, but it's also prone to infiltration by the mafia. I can tell these plans take quite a while to thought up, but any obstacles such as inactivity or misinterpretation or even stupidity will cripple it. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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MrBabyHands
United States72 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22203 Posts
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BWdero
Netherlands476 Posts
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rredtooth
5458 Posts
will take me a while to read through the pages but just wanted to report in. | ||
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
On March 19 2009 03:31 redtooth wrote: shoot totally forgot about the game until just now. will take me a while to read through the pages but just wanted to report in. Me too. Good luck everyone! | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On March 19 2009 00:27 MrBabyHands wrote: all of these plans have large holes. behavioral and clue analysis are the only way we're gonna stand a chance. we should protect and verify our analyzers and veteran players now and form a plan later in the game when we have more to go on. I agree with this. I also am curious why everyone has pretty much ignored mrbabyhands. Ideally him/Ace in power would be quite a strong setup. I'll lend my vote out here to get this going: I change my vote to mrbabyhands. We can worry about vigi's when they hit a target. The strategy talk has been a great success though in highlighting the game's atmosphere. If mafia think they can hide amongst the rampant inactives (lol seriously 30 people haven't voted yet) they are just deluding themselves. Just to note though that clue analysis on its own is weak until much later. However, it can help assist in pinning people down, so keep it up! Behavior analysis is how things are going to be done for awhile, and the people who have been posting strategy have been contributing immensely to that effort. Keep that up too! | ||
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Scooter
United States747 Posts
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
#I vote for semioldguy | ||
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MrBabyHands
United States72 Posts
On March 19 2009 04:25 Scooter wrote: After much consideration, I vote for BloodyC0bbler not to pick anyone out... but if you dont mind, can i hear your rationale? since you spent time considering it, there must have been some concerns you had | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
I'm still reading the thread. I'll post back with my thoughts of most of the plans outlined here (tbh most of them are retarded) | ||
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Scooter
United States747 Posts
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
MrBabyhand's idea is based fully on behavioural analysis which is fine to a certain extent, but obviously he trusts that too much. People on tl.net are not sheep. I was killed because of this when I was innocent in Ace's game while I heavily contributed for the town in Chuiu's (I think it was) 3rd game when I was mafia. While behavioural analysis might be right in like 70% of all cases, saying stuff like On March 18 2009 05:47 MrBabyHands wrote: Which tells us that: quatol caller bw semioldguy pyrr bloddycobbler are all very likely innocent. is over the top. You take it as fact that mafia is stupid and that is naive. There have always been mafia players who actively contributed in town's favour and I doubt this game will be any different. That's why I vote for Pyrrhuloxia. | ||
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MrBabyHands
United States72 Posts
On March 19 2009 04:55 Mandalor wrote: MrBabyhand's idea is based fully on behavioural analysis which is fine to a certain extent, but obviously he trusts that too much. People on tl.net are not sheep. I was killed because of this when I was innocent in Ace's game while I heavily contributed for the town in Chuiu's (I think it was) 3rd game when I was mafia. While behavioural analysis might be right in like 70% of all cases, saying stuff like i disagree. i think a skilled player can nail the mafia with amazingly high odds using behavioral analysis. much higher than 70% On March 19 2009 04:55 Mandalor wrote: You take it as fact that mafia is stupid and that is naive. they are. and they make mistakes-- they overcompensate or underperform. they have slight imperfections in their posts and sometimes they try so hard to look innocent that it backfires. mafia are under more pressure than innocents, and 9 times out of 10, you can tell if you know where to look. | ||
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
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MasterOfChaos
Germany2896 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Morning 1 Post] + On March 17 2009 12:21 Chuiu wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmorning.png) As night settled in the town of Liquidia all was silent. Except for the explosion in City Hall. The sheriff, Chuiu, ran out of his office across the street to see the building crumbling in on itself. He ran towards the building and stopped just at the steps when he spotted the mayor, Incognito, lying on the ground amongst the rubble. Chuiu helped Incognito to his feet and was briefed on the situation. A handful of individuals identifying themselves as part of the local mob family had destroyed City Hall in an attempt to kill Incognito. He got to the door just before the explosion and was caught in the shockwave. Chuiu took a few steps toward the building to see if he could find anyone in or around it. Then he spotted three running away from the back of the building. Chuiu ran after them and left Incognito alone. He finally caught up with them a few moments later as they were getting in a car. He noticed they weren't leaving right away, what could they be waiting for? It didn't matter, he made a quick call for backup and decided to catch them off guard before they had a chance to leave. Approaching with gun drawn he demanded they get out of their car. Two of them exited. They approached Chuiu slowly and he backed up to a safer distance keeping the gun aimed at them. When they stopped he lowered the gun slightly and told them to put their hands behind their backs and get on the ground, then he yelled at the third person to get out of the car. One of the mafia complied and began lowering down to the ground, Chuiu raised his gun at the other and yelled at him to do the same. But while he did so the mafia lowering himself sprinted toward Chuiu and with his hands still behind his head grabbed the gun and threw it to the side. He tackled Chuiu to the ground and then ran over to the gun and armed himself with it. The other mafia, now between Chuiu and the armed one, walked slowly up to Chuiu. He reached out his hand as if to help Chuiu up, Chuiu grabbed his hand with a puzzled look on his face and began to get up. But then the mafia pulled him close and stabbed him in the chest. They left Chuiu to bleed to death and got back into the car and drove to City Hall. Over at City Hall Incognito just realized something the mafia might have missed. He began sifting through the rubble thinking he could score something to help catch the mafia. What he didn't know was one stayed back to make sure he was dead. He was shoved forward while hunched over pulling some concrete away and smashed his head into a large chunk of debris. He turned himself around to face the man and knew that whatever could be found was lost. With one shot to the head Incognito's life was ended. As police began arriving one by one there were no witnesses or mafia to be found. Just the two bodies and the rubble where City Hall once stood. The town officials quickly set up a election to determine who would be the new Mayor and capable Sheriff to lead the town to safety from these dangerous criminals. Time to elect a Sheriff and Mayor. Remember that the Sheriff is the main attraction to this election and runner up in the vote will become the Mayor. Once elected the Mayor chooses who to lynch day one and then the game will move to night. Please keep your votes and discussion in this thread. + Show Spoiler [Clueanalysis by Caller] + On March 17 2009 12:32 Caller wrote: This suggests an implosion, not an explosion. It could also mean a black hole, but the explosion makes it sound weird. Why did only two mafia get out of the car? Maybe one of them is deaf, or (ala the other game) one of them IS the car. Or, further, one of them doesn’t understand/is in some kind of safety seat. Like a baby/toddler? As for the hands behind the head, how could you grab the gun? Unless you had more than two hands, or could grab it with your mouth/feet. The stabbing suggests that the mafia is a helpful person/guy. Either that or I keep thinking of that Gladiator scene. One of the mafia is very careful and knows everything/is very aware of what may have happened. But what is this mysterious thing? + Show Spoiler [Pyrrhuloxia linking Pika Chu to the wo…] + On March 17 2009 13:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Shock Wave is a move that Pikachu can learn and there is a player named Pika Chu. I give this a 1% probability of being a real clue. On March 17 2009 15:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: So I'm getting a clue. It's not exactly a raging clue, but for Day 1 it's pretty feisty. On March 17 2009 12:21 Chuiu wrote: "He got to the door just before the explosion and was caught in the shockwave." Shock Wave is a move that Pikachu can learn and there is a player named Pika Chu. I gave this a 1% probability of being a real clue. But now after a few thoughts I had in the shower I am much more suspicious... "One of the mafia complied and began lowering down to the ground, Chuiu raised his gun at the other and yelled at him to do the same. But while he did so the mafia lowering himself sprinted toward Chuiu and with his hands still behind his head grabbed the gun and threw it to the side. He tackled Chuiu to the ground and then ran over to the gun and armed himself with it." One of the mafia is standing up straight at rest, but then lowers himself to the ground while sprinting... just like Pikachu! This Mafia grabs the gun even though his hands are behind his back... this wouldn't be a problem for Pikachu, who carries the ray gun from Super Smash Bros. in his mouth while running around. Furthermore, Pikachu holds the gun from SSB behind in his hands behind his head while leaned over when he fires it... Then this mafia tackles Chuiu. Well Pikachu can't learn tackle in the Game Boy game, but I'm pretty sure he uses it in the TV show, and I know he can use it in the card game: ![[image loading]](http://www.pokebeach.com/scans/expedition/124-pikachu.jpg) Finally, chuiu has posted in this Smash Bros thread so I assume he'd be at least somewhat familiar with this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=42012¤tpage=2 EDIT with addition: "They approached Chuiu slowly and he backed up to a safer distance keeping the gun aimed at them. When they stopped he lowered the gun slightly and told them to put their hands behind their backs and get on the ground, then he yelled at the third person to get out of the car." The mention of slightly lowering the gun indicates to me that Chuiu is still aiming the gun at these mafia but that one or both of them is short; if Chuiu wanted to say he was completely lowering the gun he wouldn't have used that modifier. + Show Spoiler [NemY's mayor campaign post] + On March 17 2009 15:08 nemY wrote: Hmmm... Ok my reasoning for mayor. -I've participated in every mafia game of Chuiu's from I to V. -I also participated in a few of the other TL run mafias, most notably Caller's disorganized yet stellar attempts, I think I missed BC's game though. -I've been ridiculously active in most of Chuiu's games, most notably I and II (I almost made it to the end in Game II) -to be fair I was mafia in Game III and after I died, I wasn't really active much -in game IV, I didn't have a chance to do much, I was a DT though -While I'm not the most prominent player in the game I've contributed a fair amount in helping the town to victory (when I was a townie in previous games) -in Game I, I was pretty clueless, but nonetheless tried my best at figuring out who mafia were (but was horribly wrong on most cases) -in Game II, I orchestrated/masterminded the end game of getting the remaining mafia lynched after most of the town's hero's had fallen. I'd like to take personal responsibility for most of the actions involved, but some credit is due to Wysp, Alethois, Scorch, and unsoundlogic as well. I'll upload a few of the documents at the end of this monologue, to verify the work that I did. -in Game III, I was Suicide Bomber, and personally imo, did a poor job at hiding my true colors, I was against suicide bombing Mynock, but was overruled by everyone else on the mafia team  and as a result did little damage to the townie-in Game IV, I didn't really have time to act/do much. I did report to Dyno. ? I think that I was DT -in on of Caller's? games i think I was mostly inactive, but I did manage to fake role claim as a DT, publish it and take a hit for a real DT (or I'd like to think that I took a hit for a real DT). It was too little too late for it to really help out the town though -I've wanted to be mayor in mafia the past few games (even when there wasn't a mayor position available). It's merely a goal of mine, and I think I'd handle the job well. -I know that I'm a townie, admittedly I can't prove it, but hopefully my actions will speak for my words -I went to the last Blizzcon in all green. I don't have any of the pics atm, but I'm sure they're on TL somewhere. Seriously legitness imo! -I think that is all for now. Documents I worked on in TL Mafia II + Show Spoiler + Day 16 list Remaining Mafia!!! Mr. Orange Mr. Blond Cottonmouth ? Clazziquai was Mr. Brown Ieatkids5 was Mr. White Randombum was Eddie Unforgiven_ve was Joe LTT was Mr. Pink BlindAlbino was Black Mamba Mandalor was Snake Charmer 0cz3z was Copperhead Bockit was California Mountain Snake Queasy was Sidewinder SoTT is currently presumed to be Mr. Black Crazie-penguin was King Brown Snake d.arkive was Taipan Snake Evilmonkey was Mr. Red L was Enigma Suresh0t is presumed to be The Wolf So this leaves only one remaining Mafia member… Mr. Blue! Character Traits: Mr. Orange -mute/does not talk -multiple instances of him involved with phones/lights/electrical equipment -kill style varies, but multiple instances of him stabbing somebody Mr. Blond -displays incredible speed -possible mirror theory (but I find that only really matches… for what maybe two? days?) -not likely to be ninjas due to the lack of subtlety in more recent kills Cottonmouth -magic #15 -use of darts, nails, plumbatas?, knifes… almost anything that matches with the # 15 -has been known to dress somewhat irregular Mr ? Blue ? -multiple use of machines (chainsaws, car crushers, buzzsaws) -extremely varied style of killing, bordering on psychotic, as well as downright ridiculous (he killed fusionsdf with an umbrella tip) -if it was NOT Mr. Blue who appeared on Day 16’s killing then it is likely that Mr. Blue is dead and there are some serious flaws in the list. For now though I’m tentatively pinning Mr. Blue as the killer of rpf in Day 16, since we have yet to find a concrete suspect. -The Mr. Black = SoTT situation. I’m basing this decision solely off the fact that Mr. Black reeked like hell, and Tunas have a particular odor to them. It’s a weak connection, but it’s all I’ve got working for me. If you guys can connect SoTT to someone else that’d be great. Obviously he was not Cottonmouth. Mr. Black has not made a direct appearance ONCE since SoTT’s lynching. By the same accord, neither has Mr. Blue, although it’s hard to tell who killed rpf on Day 16 (was it suresh0t?) -If there are any mistakes (say for whatever reason Eddie reappears and starts gunning down people again), then this list will be reanalyzed and reevaluated. Mr. Blonde List -Mr. Blond + Show Spoiler + Day 1 He jumped through the opening towards the door and was almost home free when he was cut off by Mr. Blonde, coming out of nowhere it seemed. He rammed into DapperDan knocking him to the ground. King Brown Snake stepped up to him as DapperDan started getting up. He met him face to face halfway and pushed King Brown Snake out of the way as he proceeded to the door again. He almost made it out until finally someone pumped DapperDan's back full of lead -displays superhuman speed -rammed into his target -possibly? Killed target. Day 2 Evening seemed to drag on forever as everyone worried over the turn of events the town faced. But when night finally came, the red moon stared them back in the face like a terrifying omen. Nobody knew how or when the mafia would strike, or what their real intentions were if any, but a few were up late losing sleep over it. Over at casa Mynock he was frying himself a late night snack and watching a rerun of the news from earlier that night. He turned around to get something from his fridge when he noticed the lights out in his living room. With great care he crept into the room and searched for the lamp. It was moved onto the table in the center of the room. He switched it on to reveal the man known as Mr. Blonde. Mr. Blonde had braced himself on the ceiling and swooped down from above diving straight into Mynock. As they fell to the ground Mynock struggled to get away, he bashed Mr. Blonde in the face with his elbow as he turned to the right and climbed up only to meet gaze with Mr. Brown. They traded glares and Mynock dodged to the left and headed up his stairs not clearly deciphering the yells that came from behind him or caring. He tried to find the shotgun he had stashed in his closet but only found a smiley in its place. He panicked as he realized his only line of defense against two men was gone and he just about surrendered as Mr. Blonde appeared in the room with the shotgun, Mr. Brown just behind him. He dived toward Mr. Blonde in effort to tackle him but Mynock's attack was cut short as he ate a mouthful of buckshot. -came down from ceiling -was bashed in the face by target -target went to look for his shotgun but found only a smiley “” face in it’s place -eliminates target with shotgun before target could reach him Day 5 Mr. Blonde and Mr. White got out of their car, the rest of their hit squad parked on the other side of the building. They had arrived at an office building where they noticed a group of people always worked late. Sure enough there were some cars parked around them. "When is d.arkive supposed to do it?" asked Mr. White, as he leaned against the car and stared at the building in expectation. "I don't know, they just said to wait for their signal" responded Mr. Blonde as he walked a bit closer to the building to get a better look. He could see d.arkive running through some corridors looking for someone, anyone. He found Hittegods. d.arkive ran towards Hittegods as he was examining some photos and hit a button. An explosion ripped apart nearly half of the building and it sent everyone outside ducking for cover as debris flew all over. "Holy shit! I guess we're supposed to go in and find the rest of them now?" said Mr. Blonde after dodging what was left of a door that flew at him. "I don't think we have to" said Mr. White as he pointed at some people getting out of the good half of what was left of the building. They decided on the first person they saw, xDark.Carnivalx. Mr. Blonde jetted towards him and knocked him to the ground with a punch square in the jaw. xDark.Carnivalx was dazed and still disoriented and shocked from the explosion, but he managed to stumble to his feet only to get kicked down again. The adrenaline was rushing but xDark.Carnivalx was getting frustrated, he looked around for something to use as a weapon and found a shattered pipe. He grabbed it and swung at Mr. Blonde, forcing him to back off and provide time for xDark.Carnivalx to get off the ground. But just as soon as he did Mr. White smashed another pipe laying around in the back of xDark.Carnivalx's head. Another couple blows and xDark.Carnivalx was dead. -can talk -dodges the remains of a flying door -“jets” to his target, again with the super speed -soundly hits his target twice (one punch, one kick) -retreats when his target wields a weapon Day 7 G.s)NarutO was doing monk things in his monk place with his monk friends when he decided it was late and he wanted to go to sleep. On the way to his room he encountered Mr. Blonde. Mr. Blonde mocked G.s)NarutO for his failed attempts at helping the town and then pulled out a gun to kill him. G.s)NarutO wasn't ready to give up on life completely though and thought he could redeem himself by taking out this man for the town. He charged towards Mr. Blonde and tried to grab his gun but Mr. Blonde was a bit faster to respond and shot him twice in the leg. He finished it by shooting G.s)NarutO in the head and made his escape through a window before getting caught by a horde of monks. -mocks his target for his failures -wields a gun -again with the speed, he dodges his target’s attack and injures his target -eliminates his target with a gunshot to the head Day 9 Mr. Blonde and Cottonmouth were at AmorVincitOmnia's convenience store right before closing. They wanted everyones attention right away so Mr. Blonde charged through the front door, a move that shattered all the windows. Inside AmorVincitOmnia was cashing Alventenie's purchase and they both immediately looked at Mr. Blonde shocked at what just happened. Both Mr. Blonde and Cottonmouth ran towards them and stabbed each of them through the shoulders with a knife. Mr. Blonde had AmorVincitOmnia pinned up against a wall and Cottonmouth had Alventenie on another. AmorVincitOmnia pushed and shoved and tried to get free but Mr. Blonde stabbed three more knives into each arm and three into each leg. Then to finish him off he stabbed two more into AmorVincitOmnia's chest. Alventenie already exhausted from the day he had put up little resistance as Cottonmouth stabbed three knives in his other arm and each leg. Then stabbed five more in the shape of a pentagon and finally killed off Alventenie. -charges through the front door, which ends up shattering all the nearby/surrounding windows (assuming this is a convenience store with many windows) -stabs his target with 15 knifes, 3 in each arm, 3 in each leg, 2 in the chest, and 1 in the original location where he first stabbed his target (3x4)+2+1 = 15 -does not match Cottonmouth’s killing pattern (aside from the 15 knifes, Cottonmouth went 1 in the shoulder, 3 in one arm, 3 in both legs (which is 1+(3x3) = 10), and finished his target with 5 (in the shape of a pentagram) in his target’s chest (15 knifes total) Day 13 Losing two members that day the mafia decided to pull all the stops and hit the town where it mattered. They were through messing around and Mr. Orange, Eddie, and Mr. Blonde were about to prove that by taking out Fanatacist and Ace once and for all. Ace and Fanatacist were sitting at a desk going over detective files trying to find the remaining few mafia when the three barged into the room. Ace quickly grabbed the phone to call for backup but it was too late as Mr. Orange had landed a dagger right on the phone line cutting him off. Mr. Blonde shot across the room and grabbed all the notes dumping them into a trash bin nearby. He lit a match and set the whole thing on fire hoping this was the last copy the town had to go off. Mr. Orange, Mr. Blonde and Eddie all got out pistols and fired round after round at Ace and Fanatacist who were helpless to stop them. Eddie went up to Ace and he was terrified as Eddie finished him off but firing one last round into his head. -again with the speed, Mr. Blonde “shoots” across the room -burns the town’s notes -pulls out a pistol and finishes the two targets with the combined help from Eddie, and Mr. Orange Day 15] Cottonmouth organized a strike force of mafia to take on a few troublesome townies who had the tendency to keep watches at night. With three mafia it would be sufficient enough to take on three regular joes. So he, along with the Wolf and Mr. Blonde, went to Jimtudor's house and broke in. This automatically set off their home made alarm system and the mafia squelched it right after but the damage was done and they were alerted to mafia presence. Supah, Alethios, and Jimtudor got ready with their handmade weapons, aware that most of the time Mafia did not carry weapons favoring to kill without alerting the neighborhood to their presence. Cottonmouth expecting more trouble went back to his car and handed five plumbata's to each of his comrades. Prepared for the fight to come they burst through the basement door and each threw one at their targets. Two missed and one hit a garbage can lid that Supah was using as a shield. The townies made their counter attack, the stairs leading down to the basement collapsed and the mafia came crashing down hard stunning and injuring them. Not enough though as they were able to ward off the crude melee weapons the town had fashioned from a yard rake, a baseball bat, and a broken chain. Mr. Blonde was able to grab a hold of the yard rake Supah was using and kicked it to break it in half, the Wolf grabbed hold of the chain and pulled it out of Jimtudor's hand then flung it to the side and tossed one of his remaining darts in his shoulder, and Cottonmouth deflected Alethios baseball bat and stabbed him in the foot with a dart. Mr. Blonde threw two plumbata's at Supah and then used the broken off rake handle and stabbed him with it, he then finished off Supah by stabbing a dart into his face. The Wolf lunged for the chain and wrapped it around Jimtudor's leg, then he pulled hard and caused him to fall to the ground. Cottonmouth finished off Alethios by stabbing the rest of the darts into his chest. And the three ganged up on Jimtudor and plunged their remaining darts into his face. -trips the alarm system (well all 3 of them do) -throws a plumbata but misses all 3 of the targets -grabs hold of the yard rake his target was using and breaks it in half by kicking it (possibly requiring some speed/force/strength to do this, it’s hard to recreate an accurate visual in my mind of this scene) -distracts his target by throwing two plumbata’s into at his target and then uses the broken yard rake to stab his target -finishes his target by stabbing him in the face with a plumbata -assists his other two mafia members in eliminating the final target when they all stab the remaining darts into the target’s face Day 17 In the dark shed in ShaLLoW[baY]'s backyard Mr. Blonde gleefully waiting in silence clutching his weapon. ShaLLoW[baY] made his way to the shed slowly inspecting his petunias after the storm had passed. He was shocked to say the least when he opened the door. Mr. Blonde swatting ShaLLoW[baY] with the front end of the yard tool causing him to stumble backward into a trap Mr. Blonde had set of several nails on the ground. Having punctured his foot on a rather rusty one ShaLLoW[baY] began hopping frantically trying to pry the devil from his foot as he screamed in pain. Mr. Blonde used this opportunity to maneuver himself behind his victim and he killed ShaLLoW[baY] in one swift vengeful blow by shoving the rake up his ass. -“gleefully” waits for his target with his weapon -sets a trap for his target -smacks his target with a yard rake causing his target to fall back onto some rusty nails (the trap) -eliminates his target by raping him with the rake -kills his target with a “swift vengeful blow” (rape raking), again with the speed and power Possible suspects HotZhot Updated UnsoundLogic List ::It's 53 pages, PM me if you really want it:: UnsoundLogic List ::47 pages, send requests via PM:: Mandalor Suspects PMs I asked Bocket, Scorch, Alethois Infundibulum, qrs, and Nightmare about some remaining mafia in game II, here are their responses. Mandalor Suspects pms Bockit: Oh sorry I actually forgot to put this in my pm haha. Thanks for that info, hmm. I'd say well ocz3c is on the list.. and he's on that so he's not looking too good. Same with shallow. But I really don't think shallow is mafia, whereas ocz3c has had some good stuff pinned against him. So I'd probably say ocz3c for sure, and then maybe lysithea cos I vaguely remember stuff being pinned against him as well (I really haven't followed the thread enough ), but for the third, I really couldn't make a decision between the rest. Scorch: if i have to choose three of these, i'll take 0zc3c, lysithea and shallow (in this order). i don't have anything to back up my suspicions though, it's more of a gut feeling and a very short look at their profiles. don't complain if i'm completely wrong Alethios: Bockit is mafia... he must be lynched tomorrow. He was caught in a lie earlier, and it's time that fucker was taken out. Take special notice of the amount of shit he's talking recently... it's time for him to go before he poisons too many minds. 0cz3c is also mafia, and must be lynched the day after. Suresh0t is next in line for the gallows (through the controversial list, the mandalor list and Plexa's clue analysis) Furthermore, if Jtan is green (which i believe he is) then bwdero is mafia (by Plexa's controversial list)... again, you'll have to trust me on that dichotomy. Plexa based the majority of his successful lynches on that list, and so be assured... bwdero will be mafia if jtan is not. Qrs: I think a couple of those are on Plexa's list of suspects: ocz3c, JimTudor. Personally, I find Shallow the most suspicious of the people on that list. Infidibulum: Shallow: doubtful, although the only reason i could suspect him is that he was very active early on with clue analysis etc. and then just stopped (but he's usually active elsewhere on site). I suppose all his sig changing is worth a thought too, not to mention he's on mandalor list. Zbir: Not sure, wasnt the clue supposed for zbir linked to Cottonmouth who was SpiritofTuna? 0cz3c: A decent bet for mafia id say Romance_us: No idea about this guy; he's inactive right? Lysithea: Possible i guess Jimtudor: I dont think so, im assuming only reason hes on here is the hockey player clues which imo is b.s. Bwdero: Can't recall any of his posts, and are there any clues to him? If not i have no idea why hes on here besides the fact he is on mandalor list Nightmare: Frankly, i strongly suspect that Shallow is mafioso, but it would be too much of a coincidence he gets 2 times in a row mafia like unforgiven. But given the fact that he's been changing his quote so often makes him kinda suspicious, because no clue can be attached to him. This is nothing new anyway. ocz3c is definetively mafioso. Looking as how mafia tried to bump up randombum on the last part of the voting, he jumped into the bandwagon of voting for him, thus i think he's a very strong suspect. Plexa pointed him out as possible mafia too. i havent tookt the time to look at the others but its probably that i would incline to suspect zbir based on plexas conclusions. Note: I asked ShaLLoW[baY] and aarav as well, but they never replied Finally I have a few more documents related to Game II of mafia. However I'm not going to post them due to their length. Most of the documents were based on aarav's game list of living players during Mafia II and trying to make connections based that list. If you really want them PM me. End If you guys really don't think that after all of what I just posted, that I still don't deserve to be mayor, then chances are you either: a) didn't read through any of this, or b) are mafia. Have a nice day. + Show Spoiler [semioldguy on mafia and DTs] + On March 17 2009 16:56 semioldguy wrote: The only ones I could see as confirming themselves through an ability to be innocent this game are the Detectives, which wouldn't be able to do so until the second night and would have to expend a role check to do so (effectively making it so he won't be able to use a beneficial role check until the fourth night). However it wouldn't be difficult for a Mafia to fake it as a Detective since there aren't a whole lot of roles. The only way I see to confirm a Detective as being one would be for the person they inspect to be willing to sacrifice themselves in a lynch to confirm that the Detective did know what role they were. Mafia could of course get a lucky guess out of it if they tried to fake role-claim Detective. Ex: Someone claims to be a Detective and runs for Sheriff. Someone else volunteers to sacrifice themselves for the cause. The Sheriff role checks that player during Night Two. At the beginning of Day Three the Sheriff publicly says what the person's role was and then we proceed to lynch that person. If the Sheriff was correct then we know he is a Detective (or a lucky-guessing Mafia) The Detective would not be able to just use a role check like normal and then proclaim the next day. The reason for this is that Mafia know who each other are and it would be easier for them to just say they inspected someone who is Mafia, we lynch that Mafia member and would then have reason to believe that he is safe. I don't know that it is worth it to Mafia to sacrifice one of their own in order to gain a position, but I'd say not to give them a chance in the first place. This would take some time before we really know any confirmation from this and the work going through it doesn't really gain anything except the knowledge that our Mayor and Sheriff are not Mafia. Additionally the Mafia will know who two of our three Detectives are (even though they would be more protected by Bodyguards). The Bodyguards would essentially be guarding Detectives which ensures that an important role is getting extra protection. On March 17 2009 17:00 semioldguy wrote: Coordinating the "uninformed majority" doesn't seem like it is going to happen very easily this game. Additionally the Bodyguards should not make themselves known to those they are protecting. The reason obviously being that one of the two elected officials may be Mafia and that would help them remove the Bodyguards and kill the other elected official, essentially stripping the town the special abilities granted by the elected roles. On March 17 2009 17:06 semioldguy wrote: Either way I don't think that the town would gain enough by doing that to go through all that trouble and have several important roles publicly revealed in the process As this plan doesn't actually untie any of the town, it only ensures that the election is won by someone who is innocent. And a Mafia would be able to get away with it long enough before confirmation to do some damage while simultaneously mucking up the plan. + Show Spoiler [bloodycobblers campaign post] + On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok everyone, unlike the flashy gimicks of caller, I offer substance to my platform!. to start with heres my portfolio. Name: BloodyC0bbler Mafia experience: 5(6 if you count callers as two go's), 1 game run, 1 game co hosted Looking at just the one stat alone, I have the experience to lead this town to victory! In mafia 2, I was town aligned and we won, mafia 3 we as town dominated the mafia, mafia 4 was ruined by a jerkoff so well, can't really say much there. Tracils game ended early, but my side was winning. Callers first game ended day one with VI win, and his second game I as VI won. I have a high precident of winning the games on the side im part of, with ability, and luck like that, I would be an obvious goodluck charm for the town. Now, witha ll the extra things I do on TL (PX, Location thread, etc...) You guys know I spend way to much time here, giving me the most amount of time to really jump ontop of things, I can analyze clues well which is helpful in your sheriff. That is my background, As for what I will do for the town to win. As sheriff or mayor, I will help guide the town where I can doing what I do best, Analysis. I can analyze clues, behaviour of players and guide us in a winning direction. As sheriff, I can jail 4 people in a game once per person, this allows me to save potential targets from mafia in a night, or jail the mafia lowering their KP. As mayor I can guide us towards killing the right suspect, and with a day 1 auto lynch, kill the person who is the most fishy to the town, but in the end, that will come to a consensus among the town first. Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role). So heres the plan. Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town. When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one. In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after. This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. + Show Spoiler [semioldguys campaign post] + On March 17 2009 17:41 semioldguy wrote: I'll throw my hat in the ring... I don't really want to be an elected official, but here is what I can offer: (1) I will vow to listen to the town as a whole when the majority thinks that a way I could act is a good idea for the town, I will do what they wish for me to do. (2) Any plan that the town comes up with and approves of I will be on board for. (3) Unless a situation seems imperative to be dealt with quickly, I will not take any drastic action before letting the town know and giving them ample time to disapprove of my position Items 1-3 I think are something that all running players should strive to do. We can't have the town rally around someone making decisions completely on their own as that is likely to cause chaos and could potentially split the town as some people may not agree with the eleceted's actions creating a rift. If the elected agrees to listen to the town in his informed decision making, it is easier to rally around him and keep from dividing people who just don't understand a certain motivation (as the rest of the town chimed in thinking it was a good idea prior to the action) (4) I can read people's edited posts (which they aren't supposed to do anyway, but I can verify all of them as long as I am living). Kennigit is the only other player in the game with the out of game ability to do so :p (5) I am immensely active as a staff member of the site I am around all the freaking time and am currently on spring break for the next two weeks with nothing much to do except go to work (and I usually browse TL while at work) + Show Spoiler [Ver on bloodycobblers plan] + On March 17 2009 17:56 Ver wrote: On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As sheriff or mayor, I will help guide the town where I can doing what I do best, Analysis. I can analyze clues, behaviour of players and guide us in a winning direction. As sheriff, I can jail 4 people in a game once per person, this allows me to save potential targets from mafia in a night, or jail the mafia lowering their KP. As mayor I can guide us towards killing the right suspect, and with a day 1 auto lynch, kill the person who is the most fishy to the town, but in the end, that will come to a consensus among the town first. Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role). So heres the plan. Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town. When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one. In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after. This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. Hmm okay let's see here. This seems to be pretty solid way of coordinating blues IF the following circumstances happen: medic protects an active player, active player comes out. It has a good result but the problem is that it comes down to luck/medic skill. I would like to see this expanded more and discussed, as well as possible alternatives. When the medics make a save, great, we can go with this. But otherwise we need some backup ideas. I won't be back until late tomorrow night so hopefully we can polish this or get something even better. Until then, this is the only actual plan proposed so far and it does seem well thought out so BC has my vote of confidence. We don't need names and history, we need plans and accountability for office. Others & BC, get your own plans and flesh them out better. I will lend my views tomorrow once I have more time. I vote for BC . For now, I'll see how things are tomorrow. I don't fully agree with Ace that DTs are terrible. Yes, they no longer give absolute certainty but the certainty is still very high (1 GF, 3 millers is not a very large number). Furthermore, millers cannot be blue, so blue can only be the GF. Yeah mafia probably won't fake DT, but that's even better for us because then we don't have to waste rolechecks or be stingy on trusting blues. It is often well worth the sacrifice of a mafia to screw up the town's machinery for a day or two. + Show Spoiler [Pyrrhuloxia campaign post] + On March 18 2009 03:44 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/36781.jpg) Alright, I will run for office as well. If elected, I will do my best to follow the will of the town and follow any plans they have. I don't think organization should flow through the mayor / sheriff this game because of how hard verification would be so I'll do my best to earn your trust while organization can hopefully happen through the medic / veteran plan (so I'm not going to be demanding your roles or anything). The town will have to do most of its heavy lifting through clue analysis this time, which I am looking forward to helping with. This is my third mafia game so I don't have as much experience as some of the other candidates but I will certainly be hovering over this thread obsessively like I have for the previous to games, to the detriment of my GPA. If elected Sheriff I plan on locking up suspected mafia if we have more obvious suspects than we can lynch (and we can see if KP falls as well). Protecting a blue whose cover is blown doesn't seem too strategic because they won't be able to use their power in jail but maybe it can be used if medics/bgs get low in end game. But, I certainly won't go rogue and ignore y'all if a majority of you demand I do otherwise. If Mayor, I'm leaning towards Pika Chu at this point for the previously stated reasons and will stick to that barring new revelations. I don't think I can vote for me so I vote for Bloodyc0bbler at this point because he started running early and thus is probably not running for secret reasons and has a ton of experience. I thought it was suspicious he got support earlier but it reminds me of all the support Plexa got in a previous game from name recognition that looked suspicious but ended up being okay. + Show Spoiler [bloodycobbler's plan] + On March 18 2009 04:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On March 18 2009 03:32 Qatol wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role). So heres the plan. Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town. When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one. In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after. This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. How will you coordinate the lockup? It takes a cycle before that can take place. I like that you verify both players, however. That way both cannot be GF (and thus appear as innocent). What do you do if the person hit is a miller or otherwise doesn't check out? Does that person name their paramedic? I'm thinking probably not because if they're a miller, they just handed the mafia a medic. If they're a mafia, they're probably going to name a townie as their medic anyways. If you are elected mayor instead of sheriff, what is your plan for a lynch/ who will you lynch and why? + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2009 02:50 MrBabyHands wrote: The people running for office lack confidence and insight. They wont make good leaders. I can guarantee a mafia lynch on day one AND day two. I'd even put real cash on it. Thats confidence. Thats why I can win. The question isnt about strategy-- its about drive and instinct. Forget this "past game performance" crap. Its worthless. If you want to see the mafia get smoked, let me show you what I can do. Like i said-- 2 mafia GUARANTEED. And by the time Day 3 rolls around, I will have pulled the rest of the mafia from their crevices like a dentist pulling teeth. One.by.one. I also have an afro and wear shades (often). ![[image loading]](http://greek9.com/tux/babyhands.png) PLEASE tell me that's a belt. If you can guarantee mafia, please post at least one of them in the thread along with your reasoning. Even if you aren't elected, it would be useful for the mayor to take your target(s)/reasoning into consideration. It isn't like revealing the information really affects any of the mafia roles. semioldguy/Caller/nemy/motbob/lurker/anyone else who is running for sheriff that I have not yet addressed (sorry, but there are a lot of you and I might have missed someone) what do you plan to do upon getting into office? What sort of plan do you offer to the town? I just want to get some talk going on this one: When do we want to use our double lynches? I argue that we want to use them days 3-5 because those are early enough to do damage to the mafia but aren't complete guesses either. Remember, we have to vote for the double lynch the day BEFORE we can use it, so we need to start talking about this now if anyone thinks it is a good idea to double lynch day 2. As to coordinate a lockup. Tonight medics protect the vet players, or if they disregard the strategy whoever they prot. Ideally Player x is hit that they are protecting. That person steps forward, we can then jail him that night as a DT this game can only have his power used at night. they get their answer, no one speaks up we are good. As for if the person they protect is in the unlikely event mafia/GF. In this case, mafia won't say anything as they will get caught instantly, Nor would they know for the first day or so anyway as vigi's can't act right away, chances of anything happening with them is insanely low and not as much of a worry. As for the miller, the Miller does not know its anything but green, and had if i read the role description correctly, they were given a pm saying they were townie, but in reality are the miller. Chuiu could clarify on that. I believe that helps your worries. As for if I get mayor instead. This is where my history of solid analysis comes into play. I can use it to use my extra voting power to push certain targets. First day autolynch will be used rather on a target of my choosing, would be one who has seemingly behaved the most like mafia since we started the elections, as clue analysis at this point can't be trusted. Double lynches are a town activiated ability so we would just lynch top two suspects. + Show Spoiler [semioldguy on incarcerating] + On March 18 2009 04:22 semioldguy wrote: Incarcerating people who were medic-saved probably won't work. Here's why: The incarceration will be ordered that night but won't take effect until the next day. This means Mafia will know of the impending incarceration for the next day and order a hit on them again for that night before they can be incarcerated. This means that the Medic is going to have to save that person for the second night in a row as well if we want that person to survive until incarceration. At this point it is likely one of the Detectives could have used their role-check ability that night before the incarceration anyway and there would be no need to incarcerate the player. Of course they can only check every other night (and 4 times max) so the second night may sometimes be necessary. Save the incarcerations for potential Mafia. Here's why: Someone who is suspected as Mafia is less likely to be targeted for a Mafia night-time kill, meaning they won't necessarily have to be protected during the night and more likely to live until morning. If they are indeed guilty, then we potentially lower the killing power for a night and will have someone to for sure lynch the next day. If they are innocent, then we will have confirmed someone with a lot of suspicion as being innocent, which is good for a potential suspects list. + Show Spoiler [qatol on cobs's plan] + On March 18 2009 04:23 Qatol wrote: Yes, but how do we react when the rolecheck comes up red? Do we autolynch with the possibility of that player being a miller? How does the DT speak up? Does he use a mouth? I think you're misunderstanding the jailing timeline. (Please tell me if I misunderstand your plan at all) The timeline would have to look like this: 1) Qatol is hit but survives. (yay a medic protected me!) 2) I claim the hit publicly (it doesn't make sense for me to hide that information, the mafia already know who was hit and didn't die). 3a) The medic privately PMs me. 3a) I get rolechecked. 3c) The sheriff orders a jailing. 4) ANOTHER NIGHT PASSES. - Qatol has to survive here (plan?) 5a) Qatol is now jailed (and protected for that night). 5b) The medic is rolechecked. 6) Both players are confirmed and the town sends in roleclaims. Double lynches also have to be activated the day before they are used. Thus I am asking when (approximately) you think they should start being used. + Show Spoiler [semioldguy on vigis] + On March 18 2009 04:38 semioldguy wrote: We won't want intended incarcerations of potential Mafia to fail because of a Vigilante hit. Once we have some person in the town as a confirmed innocent the Vigilantes should tell their hit to the innocent person who can relay it to the Sheriff. This protects the Vigilante identities from the elected official who can't be role checked. Mafia have no way to protect amongst themselves. Additionally a Vigilante could just publicly call out his hit the day before he plans on carrying it out. Since they only get one hit and after they use it they would have no special ability any longer. This would also keep the Medics from potentially protecting the Vigilante's hit. A Mafia could fake it by saying he is a Vigilante and is going to hit ___ person in order to keep a Medic off them, but this is unlikely as a Vigilante shouldn't be targeting someone unless he is a prime suspect. At which point eventually we will realize there are more Vigilante role claims then there are of that role in the game and all Vigilante-claimed individuals would be put into suspicion. If the Mafia kills the Vigilantes after they hit their targets, then it makes it riskier/more difficult to role-claim that themselves. + Show Spoiler [Pyrrhuloxia] + On March 18 2009 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I've explained what my plan is in a number of posts outside of my first candidacy post but I'll go over some main points again: -If mayor I'll lynch Pika Chu unless something drastic occurs between now and the end of the election. -If sheriff I will imprison mafia that are suspected and can't be lynched yet (the reasoning for this has been explained earlier by a few people, you, me, maybe some others. If people trust me enough to send me roles I will organize them the best I can but I don't think the mayor or sheriff should demand them at the beginning. I think medics should protect innocent looking vets and hopefully DTs can ferret out some people to trust fully. If this occurs I will definetly not contradict such a player / players. I think vigis should call out their hits beforehand since they only have one hit (making sure to send in their hit really early so it goes through). If the mafia use all of their kill power that night we will have a verified blue - if they lay off with killing power to try to make the person look suspicious, that would be stupid of them because we will have successfully deterred them and if they don't kill the vet we can medic protect him into a figurehead. If the vet dies that night (most likely) at least their hit went through and the vet getting killed is essentially a green at that point and much better than losing a DT / Medic / BG etc. More ideas to come I gotta get dinner / make phone calls. + Show Spoiler [semioldguy critizizing Pyrrhuloxia…] + On March 18 2009 08:34 semioldguy wrote: On March 18 2009 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think vigis should call out their hits beforehand since they only have one hit (making sure to send in their hit really early so it goes through). If the mafia use all of their kill power that night we will have a verified blue - if they lay off with killing power to try to make the person look suspicious, that would be stupid of them because we will have successfully deterred them and if they don't kill the vet we can medic protect him into a figurehead. If the vet dies that night (most likely) at least their hit went through and the vet getting killed is essentially a green at that point and much better than losing a DT / Medic / BG etc. There are several reasons why I don't like this plan. We essentially gain nothing unless we also save the Vigilante from being killed. If we don't do that then the Vigilante may have killed an innocent civilian and with the Vigilante dies we did NOT reduce the Mafia's kill power for the night, we increased it. Not only that but we don't have the person with a verified role because now he is dead. Anyone who publicly claims vigilante is likely going to die. They should still do this though as it prevents other roles and their own from being wasted as well as hinders the Mafia's ability to fake roleclaims. Another reason why I don't like this: If the confirmation of Vigilante is secret (which it may have to be in order to get far enough to have some sort of confirmation) then it's too easy to infiltrate. If I was mafia this is how I would try to infiltrate this plan by claiming myself as a Vigilante. Mafia could then use all their kill power killing people and also killing the person the "Vigilante" is supposed to kill. Then a Mafia members comes forward during the next day cycle and says that a Medic contacted him and he was saved. We check him and he turns out to be Mafia, that doesn't really help though, he could have been a Miller. At this point as a town we either need to just lynch one of the two who has come out, in which case our plan has been delayed a very long time or inspect the "Medic." If the medic is the Godfather in hiding then we just "confirmed" a Medic and a Miller and the Mafia is now in the inner circle receiving all of our roleclaims. By this point it will likely be Day 5 or 6 and we will have essentially gotten nowhere in creating a group of confirmed townies. On March 18 2009 08:46 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Alright, we agree the vigis should call their hits to avoid overlapping at the very least. The confirmation of the vigi can really only happen if the mafia fucks up and hits people other than the vigi and who the vigi was going to hit (but they'll just hit who the vigi was going to hit and cancel his hit, unless the vigi gets lucky and calls a mafia, since mafia can't hit mafia). Essentially, we agree the vigi should call their hit and if mafia has fallen off the turnip truck we'll get a publicly confirmed blue. I never said anything about private confirmation so there's nothing to infiltrate. If the mafia is off their game and allow us that, the medics should protect them so the mafia either has to waste KP taking out the organizational figure or allows us to get more organized. There's no surefire way to trust anyone if the mafia plays their cards right but if the mafia is as clueless as last game there might be is all I'm saying. Ultimately this game is going to come down to clue analysis and earning trust the old fashioned way, I think. + Show Spoiler [Ace on the advantages mafia has this g…] + On March 18 2009 10:02 Ace wrote: *gets up on podium* So far, none of the mayor/sheriff candidates are getting my vote based on their plans. Not because their plans are bad per se, but because no one who is running is addressing a few critical flaws that the town has to deal with. Let's get this straight out off the bat: Mafia have a a very big advantage this game. I'm going to explain it you right now. First of all, we need to understand how DT's work along with their impact on the structure of the game. A quick reminder: Detective - You may ask if a specific clue points to a specific person or if a specific sentence is a clue and receive a yes or no answer. You may also, four times during the game, ask for the role of a specific player. You may not use both during one day and you may not use more than two role checks consecutively. Realize this and remember it - DTs can only use FOUR rolechecks in the game, and they can't even use them back to back. That's 12 RCs total but not consecutive. Any plan that involves confirming people has to involve DTs with the exception of behavior and clue analysis. Basically, there is no confirmation process this game, unless it's limited to very few people. Even if you had a line of people to confirm it would take [i]forever because DTs can't use consecutive role checks. Let's also remember that this is even worse if a Detective somehow dies. But it get's worse... Sheriff and Mayor will hide the roles of the elected players so that a Detective role check will show them as Sheriff/Mayor and nothing else. This is the actual killer right here. In past Mafia games, elections were crucial to Town and Mafia because of not only the power they had, but protection from Night deaths. With Vigis being nerfed, Mafia don't have to worry about the latter too much. This is partly why they are a bit stronger but there's more. Like I said, in past elections getting Mayor/Pardoner was critical. However for the Mafia it was VERY risky - A DT could just find you and out you. This was of course, just as risky for the DT - he'd surely die at some point in the game, but now Mafia have to go through layers of possible medic prot to get him/her and you can see how psychological this little game of cat and mouse becomes. The Mafia can run and hope to kill a DT outing them, or hope not to get checked. The Dt is finding them, has to figure out a way to live and out them. All of this of course takes time, but not too long in game day terms. Even so, if the Mafia got the Mayor/Pardoner seat the idea of not letting an influential Townie get it could be seen as a Pyrrhic victory. With the addition of a Godfather, this was put back into balance for the Mafia since it would take more than a DT rolecheck to get them if they could manage to get their GF elected which is a risky move in itself. In this game there is no such risk. DTs can't even identify normal mafia if they get elected. In essence, there is no way short of clue and behavior analysis to figure out if an elected position is Mafia. Any plan revolving around confirmation with these 2 elected roles and DTs are out the window. PERIOD. The DTs this game are literally working alone until they can get a large circle on their own or hope to connect with other DTs. No elected official is to be given ANY critical info. They can come up with and follow plans but thats all there is to it. The DTs can't confirm them, and even if they could with rolechecks being shot to shit it would take too much time. Detectives - you have to play this game with an extremely watchful eye. This time it's not just about investigating vet players, but choosing your checks ever more critically. Sheriff/Mayor - I'm running too. I'm not going to lie and say I have some grand plan that just won't work like everyone else, but I'll let it be known that as always I'll point out any fatal mistakes that will kill the town, and I've been known to make good decisions at key times. I'd rather be Mayor though, because Sheriff seems like a waste of time for me (so far). I'll also put my Mayor vote for Mr.Baby Hands. I've played numerous games with him and he's shown himself to know how to catch people in traps just as well as I can. He also has some sort of weird, sixth sense too. No one else seems to have anything that jumps out to me that makes me want to vote for them. + Show Spoiler [Ace critisizing the vigi plan] + On March 18 2009 10:17 Ace wrote: The vigi confirmation idea is just all around bad. Too many holes in it for little gain. 1.) Whoever claims vigi can't be mafia or the plan is dead. Even if the DT could check them, thats 1 RC down the drain and doesn't even get us the real Vigi we need. Assuming this doesn't happen... 2.) Now we have to hit a suspected mafia, not a sure fire mafia. Why do this early in the game? Unless we get an RC it's useless. We'd need to wait for more clue analysis. Involving DTs means spreading out already thin Medic protection, which means Mafia is going to rape everyone else very fast. 3.) Assuming we have a legit Vigi and he hits a mafia...now what? Everyone send in their roles to him? Mafia doesn't have to fear another hit from him, there are only so many blue roles that they most can just claim Towny and go on with their lives. Once again DTs will take forever to sort out the liars and may very well be out of Rolechecks at this point. Mafia wins the long term battle on this one. The Vigi plan isn't going to help until much later in the game when the town doesn't need too much Detective help. There are a lot more posts by him critisizing that plan which I won't quote + Show Spoiler [Pyrrhuloxia discussing vigis and the r…] + On March 18 2009 10:23 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: @Ace: "Sheriff and Mayor will hide the roles of the elected players so that a Detective role check will show them as Sheriff/Mayor and nothing else." This is exactly why I've already said not to give elected peeps the roles. I'm trying to come up with a plan to figure out someone who can be trusted, feel free to tear it apart since I fear it will be nigh impossible to do this game. @ infun "yes, this is true, however - someone the town is extremely suspicious of is not always red." We'll know if a red dies overnight that the vigi hit a red. "Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but Godfather won't show up on a DT check as Godfather, that's why he is the Godfather..." Right but we will have it narrowed to those two and if that vigi is still alive when the godfather dies we will know they are in the clear at that point. "With one vigi a day claming and medics on him, there is no way to coordinate the meds." There is no way to coordinate the meds in any case because the elected officers certainly can't be trusted. Granted, they are less likely to overlap if picking with intelligent guesses than if ganging up on the supposed vigi. "it would allow mafia... to spread the hits around to key players" There is no guarantee that early on medics won't overlap on one key player, be noobs and overlap on a bad player, or overlap on a key player who is mafia this game. "If the vig misses the negative consequences are rather harsh." The biggest risk I see is the mafia faking as a vigi and stringing us along by posing as a vigi attempting to kill blue after blue and having the mafia end up killing the same person. We would probably have to choose as a town who the vigi should kill because that way a fake vigi wouldn't be able to just choose someone who is not mafia everytime and claim every morning that the mafia had killed the same person in order to foil them. Vigis are always having to deal with the risk of killing a blue or green so as long as its a person the town is okay with attacking I don't think the negative consequences are that bad, however early on we are probably unlikely to have an extra kill to want to give to a vigi that might be fake when we could double lynch - we are also unlikely to even have someone to double lynch. "But if the vig is only targeting suspicious players, why would the medic be planning to protect that person anyway?" They wouldn't, I'm just pointing out a possible epic town fail to make sure it doesn't happen. "So i think it's extremely all-or-nothing, especially early on which unfortunately is when we need the most set up we can get." It is all or nothing but it's the only chance at proven innocence I've been able to see. Seems less risky than other strats ive read although still very risky. Hope someone finds something better. + Show Spoiler [semioldguy suggesting a new plan] + On March 18 2009 11:17 semioldguy wrote: This plan is also prone to weaknesses but I'll throw it out there in case it can be refined in some way. No harm in brainstorming. Part 1) This will involve a likely sacrifice of a DT. We wait until one of the DTs gets a confirmed clue or role check. Hopefully this doesn't take more then two nights. The first DT to do this would have to publicly say (or say through someone else he might have rolechecked as innocent) that ___ person is Mafia because of ____. [i](then there are two options from here) Part 2a) Then one vigilante comes forward and proclaims that he will kill the Mafia that night (sending in the request during the day before he makes his post claiming he did). The medics will need to protect him in hopes that the mafia don't focus on him enough to survive the night while the Sheriff must that night order the Vigilante's incarceration. Morning comes and we get the result of a successful Mafia death or a failure. Part 2b) A Vigilante PMs the Sheriff that they are going to kill that someone. The sheriff will incarcerate that player that night and in the morning we find someone in the jail cell and a mafia dead (best case). The problem with this is (1) The sheriff could be red and make sure that Vigilante dies from a mafia attack "accidentally"; (2) the sheriff is red and doesn't comply and we lynch him; or (3) the mafia actually hit that Vigilante accidentally. At this point we begin a day with a confirmed townie in the jail cell who cant be lynched or killed the following night, allowing him at minimum two rounds to coordinate everyone. This only works if a Mafia member dies in the night and still has potential to fall apart in various places. + Show Spoiler [MrBabyHands campaign post] + [B]On March 18 2009 02:50 MrBabyHands wrote: The people running for office lack confidence and insight. They wont make good leaders. I can guarantee a mafia lynch on day one AND day two. I'd even put real cash on it. Thats confidence. Thats why I can win. The question isnt about strategy-- its about drive and instinct. Forget this "past game performance" crap. Its worthless. If you want to see the mafia get smoked, let me show you what I can do. Like i said-- 2 mafia GUARANTEED. And by the time Day 3 rolls around, I will have pulled the rest of the mafia from their crevices like a dentist pulling teeth. One.by.one. I also have an afro and wear shades (often). | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
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