Formula 1 Discussion - Page 54
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Excludos
Norway7678 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
It seems like happy Vettel is back. People always joked that he turned into a grump after Germany 2018 and hasn't driven as well since. The last few races he's seemed much happier and more content in interviews and now suddenly we're seeing him put in the level of performances we used to expect from him. Two races in a row he's put in amazing performances. I'm not sure what was going on with Bottas. He was horrid. His qualifying problem was arguably not his fault but his race was terrible. They radioed him about getting past the person ahead and how he could get up to P5 but then he made mistakes and slid down the order. Norris even mentioned when he was following Bottas how Bottas was making a lot of errors. Apparently the Alfa Romeos both passed Bottas on pure pace. Just brutal. I saw someone point out that this podium was the redemption arc podium since every driver on it was either fired or demoted in the last year and a half. edit: On June 07 2021 00:38 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Vettel and Perez equally impressed me. I really hope Canada will be at least as entertaining as this one. They cancelled Canada unfortunately. There's going to be two races in Austria instead and some calendar shuffling had to be done. They also just cancelled Singapore. | ||
Amui
Canada10558 Posts
On June 07 2021 03:36 Ben... wrote: What a weird end to the race. I feel bad for Stroll and Verstappen. Blowouts at top speed at one of the fastest spots on the F1 calendar can't be fun. Stroll sounded shook up. I'm sure they'll try to deflect blame, but this race did not reflect well on Pirelli at all. They were the reason all the cars had to cut downforce this year. Even with the cut downforce and supposedly sturdier tires, they are still having tire failures like this. Verstappen's failure one could argue was from pushing the tire too hard, but Stroll's failure occurred ~30 laps into Pirelli's 40 lap estimated tire lifespan and happened during a period where he was just managing his pace. Pirelli will probably try to claim the tires got cut by debris like usual, but two identical tire failures in the exact same spot is pretty suspicious (edit: even Verstappen's basically saying they'll just blame debris and ignore it. Right after that Pirelli of course publicly blamed debris but, since Verstappen already called them out on it, they ceded that they'll look into things more). It seems like happy Vettel is back. People always joked that he turned into a grump after Germany 2018 and hasn't driven as well since. The last few races he's seemed much happier and more content in interviews and now suddenly we're seeing him put in the level of performances we used to expect from him. Two races in a row he's put in amazing performances. I'm not sure what was going on with Bottas. He was horrid. His qualifying problem was arguably not his fault but his race was terrible. They radioed him about getting past the person ahead and how he could get up to P5 but then he made mistakes and slid down the order. Norris even mentioned when he was following Bottas how Bottas was making a lot of errors. Apparently the Alfa Romeos both passed Bottas on pure pace. Just brutal. I saw someone point out that this podium was the redemption arc podium since every driver on it was either fired or demoted in the last year and a half. edit: They cancelled Canada unfortunately. There's going to be two races in Austria instead and some calendar shuffling had to be done. They also just cancelled Singapore. Yeah Stroll has had a couple of bad shunts through no fault of his own in the last couple of years. This one wasn't super hard in the grand scheme of things, but he threw up a huge cloud of smoke and dust. Cars going past him at around 300kph when he's completely out of control must be terrifying. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On June 07 2021 03:36 Ben... wrote: What a weird end to the race. I feel bad for Stroll and Verstappen. Blowouts at top speed at one of the fastest spots on the F1 calendar can't be fun. Stroll sounded shook up. I'm sure they'll try to deflect blame, but this race did not reflect well on Pirelli at all. They were the reason all the cars had to cut downforce this year. Even with the cut downforce and supposedly sturdier tires, they are still having tire failures like this. Verstappen's failure one could argue was from pushing the tire too hard, but Stroll's failure occurred ~30 laps into Pirelli's 40 lap estimated tire lifespan and happened during a period where he was just managing his pace. Pirelli will probably try to claim the tires got cut by debris like usual, but two identical tire failures in the exact same spot is pretty suspicious (edit: even Verstappen's basically saying they'll just blame debris and ignore it. Right after that Pirelli of course publicly blamed debris but, since Verstappen already called them out on it, they ceded that they'll look into things more). It seems like happy Vettel is back. People always joked that he turned into a grump after Germany 2018 and hasn't driven as well since. The last few races he's seemed much happier and more content in interviews and now suddenly we're seeing him put in the level of performances we used to expect from him. Two races in a row he's put in amazing performances. I'm not sure what was going on with Bottas. He was horrid. His qualifying problem was arguably not his fault but his race was terrible. They radioed him about getting past the person ahead and how he could get up to P5 but then he made mistakes and slid down the order. Norris even mentioned when he was following Bottas how Bottas was making a lot of errors. Apparently the Alfa Romeos both passed Bottas on pure pace. Just brutal. I saw someone point out that this podium was the redemption arc podium since every driver on it was either fired or demoted in the last year and a half. edit: They cancelled Canada unfortunately. There's going to be two races in Austria instead and some calendar shuffling had to be done. They also just cancelled Singapore. I don't really buy the pushing too hard here. I mean he wasn't going all that much faster than Perez and Hamilton and Perez' tires were 1 lap younger, while Hamilton's were 1 lap older. I don't think there is any reasonable excuse for the tire just blowing up like that. But yea, we'll see what Pirelli will find. Hope it'll be an honest investigation at least. Other than that, quite an enjoyable race. I don't really like a standing restart 2 laps before the end of the race though. I feel it's too much "fabricated drama/excitement" and could potentially change the final results too much (as we have now seen with Hamilton ending outside of the points despite having driven a great race for 49/51 laps). | ||
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Norway7678 Posts
On June 07 2021 03:36 Ben... wrote:even Verstappen's basically saying they'll just blame debris and ignore it. Right after that Pirelli of course publicly blamed debris but, since Verstappen already called them out on it, they ceded that they'll look into things more. What a GOAT. Max is always dead on when it comes to things like this, and isn't afraid to call out bullshit | ||
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Norway7678 Posts
On June 07 2021 20:15 Kaolla wrote: Other than that, quite an enjoyable race. I don't really like a standing restart 2 laps before the end of the race though. I feel it's too much "fabricated drama/excitement" and could potentially change the final results too much (as we have now seen with Hamilton ending outside of the points despite having driven a great race for 49/51 laps). Not sure what else you want. RBs call to FIA to red flag the session for tire changes for safety reasons was spot on (and not done egoistically, as it would give Hamilton a better chance to overtake Perez, like he almost did had he not fucked up his brakes). Red flags are always restarted from a stand-still, unless weather (aka rain) doesn't allow it to be done safely. Nothing was fabricated here. | ||
Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On June 07 2021 21:15 Excludos wrote: Not sure what else you want. RBs call to FIA to red flag the session for tire changes for safety reasons was spot on (and not done egoistically, as it would give Hamilton a better chance to overtake Perez, like he almost did had he not fucked up his brakes). Red flags are always restarted from a stand-still, unless weather (aka rain) doesn't allow it to be done safely. Nothing was fabricated here. I know RB called for it and I'm not saying the race shouldn't have been red flagged or restarted, but a restart behind the safety car would be fairer imo as the chances of winning/losing positions is just smaller there. In a standing start you can win/lose multiple positions with some good/bad luck. I just don't like it much. Also they only recently changed it from a safety car restart (after red flag) to standing start. I just feel a standing restart is just not as fair as you can win/lose more and it feels like adding an extra element of "gamble" to the race. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On June 07 2021 21:15 Excludos wrote: Not sure what else you want. RBs call to FIA to red flag the session for tire changes for safety reasons was spot on (and not done egoistically, as it would give Hamilton a better chance to overtake Perez, like he almost did had he not fucked up his brakes). Red flags are always restarted from a stand-still, unless weather (aka rain) doesn't allow it to be done safely. Nothing was fabricated here. Red Bull wanted it red flagged for safety reasons but the race director specifically red flagged it rather than let it finish behind a safety car because he wanted the race to finish under green flag conditions since he thought it would be "good for the sport". Red Bull likely meant to have the race red flagged and not continued since that has happened in this type of situation before. I thought they did the right thing too but then of course Masi had to reveal they did the right thing for the wrong reasons. Masi's under a lot of heat right now anyway because a bunch of drivers felt it took them way too long to call safety car for both Stroll and Verstappen's crashes. Leclerc even said during the race over the radio as he passed Verstappen that they needed to call safety car immediately. | ||
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Norway7678 Posts
On June 08 2021 03:21 Ben... wrote: Red Bull wanted it red flagged for safety reasons but the race director specifically red flagged it rather than let it finish behind a safety car because he wanted the race to finish under green flag conditions since he thought it would be "good for the sport". Red Bull likely meant to have the race red flagged and not continued since that has happened in this type of situation before. I thought they did the right thing too but then of course Masi had to reveal they did the right thing for the wrong reasons. Masi's under a lot of heat right now anyway because a bunch of drivers felt it took them way too long to call safety car for both Stroll and Verstappen's crashes. Leclerc even said during the race over the radio as he passed Verstappen that they needed to call safety car immediately. Red Bull would know as well as anyone that F1 always restarts after red flags unless they go beyond the 4 hour maximum time limit. The notion that they expect the race to just be over so Max could win is groundless (it does occur in F2, but they have stricter time limits due to other sessions on the same track) Yeah, the slow SC calls for both Stroll and Max is inexcusable. Masi deserves all the heat he's getting. You have two cars sitting on the inside of a 300km/h corner/bendy straight. Someone could easily have slammed right into them. These situations are EXACTLY how deaths happen (Hubert), and Masi should fucking know better than to just let them sit there. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On June 08 2021 19:49 Excludos wrote: Red Bull would know as well as anyone that F1 always restarts after red flags unless they go beyond the 4 hour maximum time limit. The notion that they expect the race to just be over so Max could win is groundless (it does occur in F2, but they have stricter time limits due to other sessions on the same track) I wasn't implying that they were hoping Verstappen would somehow get a win reinstated but more they were probably concerned about the same tire failure happening to Perez since his tires were only a bit newer. As for Masi, yeah the situation's apparently gotten even worse because several drivers went to him about how dangerous the pit entrance in Baku is and how if a blowout happened near it and the driver hit the entrance's concrete barrier at or near top speed, they'd probably die. His response was "the track passed certification" and basically ignored their concerns. He seems incapable of not only taking blame for his mistakes (he's currently blaming the drivers for driving too fast past Verstappen and Stroll rather than taking any blame for his horrid decision making on calling the safety car) but also he seems not to understand that just because things are good enough doesn't mean they can't be improved. The fact there don't seem to be any consequences for his behaviour and bad decision-making suggests that it's gonna take something extra horrible for him to ever face consequences. He doesn't seem to handle criticism well and is not suited for the job he's in at all. edit: this paragraph from this write-up on the drivers' radio reactions to the two blowouts shows just how bad Masi's handling of the situation was: In both cases, there was a significant delay between the crashes occuring and the Safety Car being deployed. When Verstappen crashed, Sebastian Vettel’s race engineer warned him of the incident as he passed it, yet the Safety Car wasn’t deployed until he reached turn 16, almost a full lap later. They have a bunch of driver radio quotes in the article. They're pretty damning. Vettel straight up said the tires aren't safe to run on. He even guessed it that Stroll's crash was a blowout initially with no info. Given Vettel's suffered multiple race-ruining blowouts in the past it makes sense he probably has no confidence in Pirelli's tires. | ||
Amui
Canada10558 Posts
On basically every street circuit(Monaco aside because there are cranes at all the crash prone areas) there is no way to remove a car from the circuit without a safety car if they are anywhere other than the runoff areas, in which case it should be VSC. Masi should literally have a map in front of him with the location of every crane. Certain areas should literally always be instant VSC>safety car because it's impossible to remove a car without it. No debate necessary. Crash on the main straight of literally every single circuit on the calendar is always a safety car. | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
All of his responses so far have been to deflect blame onto the drivers, but it shouldn't be up to the drivers to tell him to call for a safety car or red flag. It's ridiculous. | ||
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Norway7678 Posts
If you want people to really slow down, use VSC. It's that simple. It exists for this exact reason. | ||
LennX
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xM(Z
Romania5257 Posts
awesome race thou. | ||
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Norway7678 Posts
On June 20 2021 23:49 xM(Z wrote: i think Botas refused to change the tires and go for the fastest lap on softs; he gave the finger to the team. awesome race thou. Possibly they also kept him in the race due to Perez investigation, in case he get a penalty. Also, McLaren today did a stellar race. Both drivers performed phenomenally, and the strategy was on point. 5th and 6th deserved | ||
xM(Z
Romania5257 Posts
Edit: for the penalty - i think he was ~40sec ahead of 5th place so even with a pit stop and 10sec penalty, it would've been fine; still 4th. | ||
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On June 20 2021 23:54 xM(Z wrote: yea, i'm a Richie fanboy ; maybe he's starting to finally 'get' the car. Edit: for the penalty - i think he was ~40sec ahead of 5th place so even with a pit stop and 10sec penalty, it would've been fine; still 4th. Opposite: Perez was the one who was in danger of a penalty. Bottas could have gotten podium, that's why he stayed out. Toto confirmed this was the reason | ||
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