Not really sure who is into coaching these days. I think there's Vibe and Pig?
Please throw out some names for me.
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FalconPunch
United States134 Posts
Not really sure who is into coaching these days. I think there's Vibe and Pig? Please throw out some names for me. | ||
SamirDuran
Philippines884 Posts
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
Coaching and playing are totally different things, great players don't always make great coaches and vice versa. In fact, it is rare to be great at both because they take two very different skillsets. | ||
Obamarauder
697 Posts
On April 17 2021 08:16 BronzeKnee wrote: It's odd to me that people gravitate to players for coaching. Coaching and playing are totally different things, great players don't always make great coaches and vice versa. In fact, it is rare to be great at both because they take two very different skillsets. but u’d still want the best players to coach u. even if they arent neccessarily the best teachers, u can be assured that what they’re saying is mostly likely close to optimal | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
On April 17 2021 08:35 Obamarauder wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2021 08:16 BronzeKnee wrote: It's odd to me that people gravitate to players for coaching. Coaching and playing are totally different things, great players don't always make great coaches and vice versa. In fact, it is rare to be great at both because they take two very different skillsets. but u’d still want the best players to coach u. even if they arent neccessarily the best teachers, u can be assured that what they’re saying is mostly likely close to optimal I don't think you understand the difference between coaching and playing. I absolutely don't want someone who is just a great player coaching me. You don't need to have ever done a Marine split to know it is optimal versus Banelings and to pass that knowledge on. Coaching is about bringing out the best in others and helping them improve. Playing is about bringing out the best in yourself. And people are different. There is a reason why Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roach are amazing trainers, but never did much as fighters. Bill Belichick played football in college and was nothing special and went right to coaching. | ||
yubo56
662 Posts
On April 17 2021 08:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2021 08:35 Obamarauder wrote: On April 17 2021 08:16 BronzeKnee wrote: It's odd to me that people gravitate to players for coaching. Coaching and playing are totally different things, great players don't always make great coaches and vice versa. In fact, it is rare to be great at both because they take two very different skillsets. but u’d still want the best players to coach u. even if they arent neccessarily the best teachers, u can be assured that what they’re saying is mostly likely close to optimal I don't think you understand the difference between coaching and playing. I absolutely don't want someone who is just a great player coaching me. You don't need to have ever done a Marine split to know it is optimal versus Banelings and to pass that knowledge on. Coaching is about bringing out the best in others and helping them improve. Playing is about bringing out the best in yourself. And people are different. There is a reason why Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roach are amazing trainers, but never did much as fighters. Bill Belichick played football in college and was nothing special and went right to coaching. Idk about fighting, but most coaches are at least very good at what they do. Not necessarily competitive at the same level as the people they're coaching, but still much better than the equivalent of what low Masters is in SC2 (which is like, top 2%?). For perspective, that would be like finding 100 players of a sport X and saying that around 2 of them could be a top level coach with their current skill level. I think most people would find that crazy; I can only relate via basketball, but I know for sure that the you can't just go into a random gym and pick out 100 people expecting 2 of them to have the skillset to coach at a professional level. If you're trying to make the argument that you don't need a pro level coach to improve as a low Masters player, that's probably true, you just need somebody who understands the game much better than you do, who will generally also be comparable in pure skill level to you (b/c experience is a huge part of understanding a game), and certainly not necessarily a pro player. But to be a coach for progamers, you absolutely have to have some chops yourself, otherwise what you say will simply be wrong Edit: To support what you said, there are a lot of people who will be very good coaches for players at a lower level, maybe even up to masters, but would be terrible coaches for pro players. I agree that you can't find somebody who is literally good at everything about a game/sport, e.g. coaching at every skill level. I just don't think you should generalize and say "Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roach were amazing trainers but never did much as fighters," since I imagine they have a basic level of fighting skill that only seems "not much" in comparison to professional competitors | ||
Major
Mexico539 Posts
On April 17 2021 06:44 FalconPunch wrote: Hi. I'm looking into getting some coaching. I am a low masters zerg on NA. Not really sure who is into coaching these days. I think there's Vibe and Pig? Please throw out some names for me. i can coach all leagues up until gm. fix mistakes optimize timings. and generate overall gameplans if interested msg me on discord. specialsc2#5434 | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20687 Posts
On April 17 2021 08:44 BronzeKnee wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2021 08:35 Obamarauder wrote: On April 17 2021 08:16 BronzeKnee wrote: It's odd to me that people gravitate to players for coaching. Coaching and playing are totally different things, great players don't always make great coaches and vice versa. In fact, it is rare to be great at both because they take two very different skillsets. but u’d still want the best players to coach u. even if they arent neccessarily the best teachers, u can be assured that what they’re saying is mostly likely close to optimal I don't think you understand the difference between coaching and playing. I absolutely don't want someone who is just a great player coaching me. You don't need to have ever done a Marine split to know it is optimal versus Banelings and to pass that knowledge on. Coaching is about bringing out the best in others and helping them improve. Playing is about bringing out the best in yourself. And people are different. There is a reason why Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roach are amazing trainers, but never did much as fighters. Bill Belichick played football in college and was nothing special and went right to coaching. It’s a bit of a cliche but I suppose a truism that the truly anointed by god gifted folks make terrible coaches, because they never had to learn what was always instinctive to them. The exceptions tend to be when a gifted exponent is just in general terms exceptionally intelligent, so can either empathise emotionally with those less gifted or articulate what they are doing, or both ideally. Johan Cruyff would be a good example of an era defining talent who became an era defining coach. Unfortunately the game’s resources have become a bit fragmented in terms of builds and the likes, WoL times were a bit easier. You had frequent TL strategy guides and the likes. If you had an up to date repository that was easily accessible, then the only two other areas for coaching would be mechanical optimisation and mentality stuff. There’s a lot of information out there, much of it bad so even sifting through that to get to the good stuff is tricky. You have to have a gauge of who in the community knows what they’re talking about, take their builds and advice and cross-reference that with tournament level play to see what is actually legit. Never been a great player myself, I think a mid diamond player could absolutely coach another player to GM, easily. Having casted tournaments for 8+ years, I’ve analysed games well, I’ve made some good reads, read game flow well. Have a decent understanding of things, timings, upgrade interaction and mechanical optimisation. Once ‘famously’ predicted a warp prism 4 gate build in a cast after the placement of the first pylon and the gas timing. Am I a great player? Fuck no! I have a hard time keeping track of information I get in the game and doing my thing, my timing clock is so often well off. I could probably coach a player to be considerably, considerably better than me though, there’s always something new to be learned or optimised, and a coach can do that. Indeed perhaps you want a coach who knows how you should play, but can’t do it themselves to show you the way. Fascinating how even after all this time there’s still stuff to learn. For example if you have a hotkey profile with everything set as an alternate for select target, when an annoying probe is trying to interrupt your mining you can just hold ‘g’ down with your cursor over minerals instead of spamming right click. I’m not sure who first thought of that but it saves the right click slamming and makes things less irritating. I mean if we were to do a blind ranking of TL posters on a ‘knowing the game’ rank based on post history and cross-referenced with actual game ability I think we’d have quite a few surprising results | ||
112StaminaX
37 Posts
Get a duration deal. 6 weeks? 10, with at least 2-3 hrs a week. having that 1 'session' is pointless you really can get it all for free over reddit and good searches and even in this forum | ||
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