142x136
Aesthetics:
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lorestarcraft
United States1046 Posts
142x136 Aesthetics: + Show Spoiler + | ||
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Also how are you measuring the rush distances? The map doesn't seem that large yet 45 seconds natural to natural would make the rush distance longer than any map in Legacy of the Void. And your two other most recent maps (Mountaineer and Infinity) both have similar enormous rush distances according to their posts yet don't look that big either... Are these Blizzard seconds? | ||
CharactR
Canada91 Posts
On October 20 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Not a huge fan of that reverse third--it just doesn't seem too takeable. Also how are you measuring the rush distances? The map doesn't seem that large yet 45 seconds natural to natural would make the rush distance longer than any map in Legacy of the Void. And your two other most recent maps (Mountaineer and Infinity) both have similar enormous rush distances according to their posts yet don't look that big either... Are these Blizzard seconds? if i had to guess it's probably default editor seconds which uses the old blizzard time. @lorestarcraft go to file > Preferences > Test Document > Melee expansion > LOTV set game speed to faster and when you test the document again it should have the correct time. | ||
CharactR
Canada91 Posts
CC to CC 60 seconds. Nat CC to Nat CC 45 seconds. the times are definitely incorrect. This is because originally the games clock was based around normal speed but that game speed was too slow for most people so faster became the default for a long time during wol and hots the clock was never fixed. in lotv however it is. edit: actually default time might also be different from the rest im not sure but it's still wrong. take for example your last map mountaineer where the nat to nat distance is labelled as 50 seconds this is considered veeery long for most lotv maps, but testing it in-game I found it's actually a much more normal 35 seconds with a main to main of 41 which is pretty average. you should re-check the rush distances on this map too since i doubt it's more than 30 seconds nat to nat. other than that what i will say is if you want to do the backward expansions near the nat there should also be a fairly easy to take alternative. with the expansions being as hard to take as they look and the rush distance being as short as it is this is this looks like 2 base all-in: the map, but at least there's a ramp so that helps a little. Also not quite a fan of the center tbh. | ||
lorestarcraft
United States1046 Posts
On October 20 2020 18:03 CharactR wrote: the times are definitely incorrect. This is because originally the games clock was based around normal speed but that game speed was too slow for most people so faster became the default for a long time during wol and hots the clock was never fixed. in lotv however it is. edit: actually default time might also be different from the rest im not sure but it's still wrong. take for example your last map mountaineer where the nat to nat distance is labelled as 50 seconds this is considered veeery long for most lotv maps, but testing it in-game I found it's actually a much more normal 35 seconds with a main to main of 41 which is pretty average. you should re-check the rush distances on this map too since i doubt it's more than 30 seconds nat to nat. other than that what i will say is if you want to do the backward expansions near the nat there should also be a fairly easy to take alternative. with the expansions being as hard to take as they look and the rush distance being as short as it is this is this looks like 2 base all-in: the map, but at least there's a ramp so that helps a little. Also not quite a fan of the center tbh. If the game loads from the editor vs in game, there is a difference even in faster mode? | ||
lorestarcraft
United States1046 Posts
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CharactR
Canada91 Posts
If the game loads from the editor vs in game, there is a difference even in faster mode? it should be the same in-game as in the editor as long as you have it set to lotv time, faster is mostly just for convenience of it not being slower than it needs to be when you test it. which is why i suggested go to file > Preferences > Test Document > Melee expansion > LOTV that way when you hit test document it should have the correct time. My thoughts: + Show Spoiler + if you control the area in front of your nat, you can take either base. there's normal maps that have similar areas though and the bases on either side are easier to take because they aren't as vulnerable to siege units from the side or units walking up and killing stuff. not only do you need to control the area in front of the natural, you have to control the further out area that runs down the middle and side of the map where the center bases are. if it were a normal base you could still try to control the area in front of the nat but you wouldn't have to control as much of the map just to protect that one base you just need to have units at the front of the base. then there's the other base against the main which it looks cramped, and it's hard to tell from the overview but it looks far from the nat, you also have to account for the fact you have to move your army back and forth between these 2 third and 4th bases. like for the backward base also to be blunt I'm pretty sure if you submitted it to tlmc the first piece of feedback you would get is that there isn't a good third base to take. disclaimer: I probably don't know what I'm talking about but here's how I imagine it going down PvZ zerg does ling runby into the protoss third, imagine trying to move your units there to respond, because of how awkwardly it's placed it's less than ideal. sure you have warp-ins but they could be on cooldown and even if they aren't it's still not ideal. TvP/Z, terran just sets up in that area with tanks, liberators, and 2 chilli-cheese dogs with the works goodbye base! better yet even earlier on in the game the protoss is just taking the third and a terran goes for a 2base tank push if the terran gets behind the ledge it probably becomes harder to dislodge and tanks can probably hit the nexus as well. bonus for terran: in any matchup, being able to just drop marines in the pocket marine control style! it's also not particularly a good base for zerg because even though it's kinda open around the base and the area you have to control as zerg doesn't have great flanks as they are basically bridges from one and a choke on the other that are far around, and also the base itself is cramped so if a terran sets up to the side they just have a choke they can abuse alright you might say so take the base against the main as a third! well, like i said it looks far, cramped, but also has 3 entrances once the rocks come down to which the third entrance is a straight shot across the map, which makes an already eeeeeeeeeeh third base worse. Then you have to figure out where to take a 4th which there are no good options for any race. though I suppose that does force fights but only because trying to expand looks like suicide on this map. | ||
KillerSmile
Germany78 Posts
I personally am generally pretty fond of backwards bases, but you lose a very crucial aspect that is key to taking and holding a third base on pretty much any map and that is allowing for a better concave for the defender, even with a town hall present. The way you implemented the backwards bases you lose this kind of defenders advantage and even the triangle base that is the normal way around the base building gets in the way of a proper defensive concave while the opening at 12 and 6 oclock is rather big for the attacker. Additionally the attackers path to that triangular third base is rather direct, which would be fine if you could set up a flank, but the paths through the middle are too narrow and any flank setup is at a disadvantage right from the get-go. Shrinking the size of those pits in the middle would certainly help. The actual layout and concept of a changing rush path by destroying rock is pretty cool tho. Another thing that is missing from the backwards bases is room behind the mineral line for static defense. It might be slightly better vs lings and hellion to not have room behind the minerals, but just a defensive depot fixes that. Against air agression and tank fire not having a bit of a buffer and setup space for defense having the minerals right against the cliffs sucks. I believe siegeable bases should be used more often, but it's probably best to have them set up in a way that whatever siege position is taken is in a compromising location and not awkward to move around for the defender. Putting them on the highground is probably the preferred option for that imo. | ||
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